Veteran FA's v.s. Rookie Talent

Archive of discussions on NFL Draft 2003, NFL Draft 2004, NFL Draft 2005, NFL Draft 2006, NFL Draft 2007 NFL Draft 2008, NFL Draft 2009 and NFL Draft 2010.
~~~~~~~~
Posts: 1754
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 9:12 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Veteran FA's v.s. Rookie Talent

Postby ii7-V7 » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:03 pm

In a lot of the threads that I have read there seems to be little concensus as to how we should aproach our needs this offseason. There are several people stating that we should finagle our way into getting as many veterans as possible, and others stating that we should rely heavily on the draft. Of course, I think that most of us understand that the real answer will be a compromise between both Free Agency and the Draft. Still, there seems to be and underlying confrontation about how to answer our needs.

My bias is towards meeting our needs through the Draft, and I will state my reasons below. I would like to encourage the board members to express thier opinions, no matter what they are, here in this post. Explain what the reasons are for your beliefs, and how realistic your desires are. Of course, its not like any of us are going to have any input into how the team will handle this offseason, but tell us how you would like it to be handled anyway.

As I have said, I think that we should handle our needs through the draft. When I look at this team I see one area of glaring weakness, the D-line. Yes, we could use RB's, TE's and a safety, but the D-Line is the most immediate need. We can still win games with our current TE's, RB's, and Safeties if we have a decent Line. Of course, if we are able to get good players at these other positions through the draft or with undrafted rookies, that would be fine too.

Our cap space will be desparately low after we resign Bailey. I can't see how we would be able to sign a group of veterans without breaking up the core of our team. In my mind trading a bunch of guys just to make room for one stud isn't an option. We have had so much personnel turnover and we wonder why we have no team chemistry. This year we are only getting four draft picks, which eats me up. Everytime we give away draft picks to get a vet our team gets older and we lose a good source of young cheap talent, i.e. the Draft.

The outstanding D-Lines on recent contenders, such as Tampa Bay and Carolina, were built over a few years. These are young lines who have been playing together for at least two years. While there have been a few teams who have made significant improvements with the addition of one guy, i.e. Buffalo and New England, those teams had the building blocks of a good line already in place. They just needed the one missing piece. We are not in that situation. We need all the pieces, well, at least most. I just don't see how we can shell out all of our Cap Space on a Ted Washington. I would rather comb through the draft and even the undrafted rookies to find young talent who will (hopefully) be loyal to the Redskins. As one person stated in a different post, "No more mercenaries!"

In my ideal scenario I see us trading down in the first round to pick up Vince Wilfork and Steve Jackson, then we get Randy Starks, Dwan Edwards or Ben Troupe in the second round. After that we use our 3rd and 5th rounds to pick up DE, Safety, or TE positions. If we can have a draft like this I would be very happy if we then didn't get any other Vets. I'm a big proponent of young cheap talent. The above scenario should help our cap situation, and should allow us to keep some consistency on the roster while answering our needs.

I would just hate to see us revamp the entire roster to get guys like Sapp and Dillon who are aging and wont be loyal to the Redskins anyway, not to mention the cap implications.

Chad Dukes

Junior Hog
User avatar
Posts: 11246
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 3:18 am
Location: Mayo, Maryland

Postby Jake » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:14 pm

No need to worry about Sapp or Dillon, I don't think Vinny, Danny, or Joey will be that stupid to go after them. We will go after younger and more energized veterans who aren't past their prime. I'm almost positive we won't sign dillon or sapp. I can guarantee two things, Darnerien will be back and we will fill a lot of needs through free agency (as we do every year).

My opinion doesn't vary b/t FA or the draft. I think we should sign all the talented players we need first and then draft players to fill the needs we didn't fill in FA. Plus, we have a cap expert! Eric Schaffer, I believe.
RIP Sean Taylor 1983-2007
RIP Kevin Mitchell 1971-2007
RIP Justin Skaggs 1979-2007
RIP Sammy Baugh 1914-2008

RIP JPFair
RIP VetSkinsFan

#60 Chris Samuels: 6-time 6-time 6-time 6-time 6-time 6-time Pro Bowl left tackle!

+++++++
Posts: 728
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:33 am
Location: Southern Maryland

Postby Wysocki » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:31 pm

I don't see Joe doing a complete overhaul - a lot of "experts" agree there is a lot of talent already in place. Joe and his staff will get to know these individuals and mold them into a team. This revolving door crap and signing aging mercenaries every year must, and will, stop. Have a smart draft (trade down), lock-up the young Skins, sign a few up-and-coming FAs, and try to have some continuity as best as possible.

Hog
Posts: 394
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:16 pm
Location: West Palm Beach, Florida

Postby skins75 » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:32 pm

It would be great to get Starks in the second round but every draft board has him going 1st round. And for some reason he does slip to the second round he wont be around for our pick.

aka Evil Hog
User avatar
Posts: 6481
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 8:01 am
Location: South of Heaven, trying to hit a toilet on shrooms

Postby hailskins666 » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:49 pm

ok, here goes. i think we need a healthy mix. having only three picks last year totally sucked. but, the players we got for those picks, didn't.
on the defensive side, i want free agents. the defense as a whole is a little older than the offense. no one really knows how good the offense could be.... but, we saw what a coach like marvin could do with the D two years ago.....and they say defense wins championships. :wink: so, no matter what happens with champ, as of right now we need a starting corner. if champ stays, problem solved, if he goes, we need the most bang for the buck out of free agency. i don't want a rookie corner. safties will float if need be. bowen is under an affordable contract, and ohalete should probably be resigned. if we do go for the best athlete we can get with the 5th pick, i wouldn't complain if it were sean taylor, though i really prefer a trade down. the LB's are fine, we need to resign mitchell and pierce to their backup roles. and now, the line. very important, completely ignored last year, and it showed. we need meat in the middle, to STOP THE RUN. no matter if he's past his prime or whatever, sapp is better in his worst year, than ANY of the crackheads in the middle last year. we don't need to break the bank, or hand sapp the keys to the complex, but, if a reasonable deal can be worked out, he's got a couple good seasons left. sam adams might be a cap casualtiy in buffalo, and just can't seem to find a home any where he goes, i'd love for him to settle in the middle of the line for a couple years here. and ted washington........old, but 365 lbs. :shock: still played at a high level in NE this year. i'd like to see two of these three here, but if not 2, at least ONE big guy in the middle. At end, we could use a pick up. i'm not opposed to a draft pick here either, but we should take a shot at kearse. he played his best under gregg williams. both upshaw and wynn are under contract, and can be used as starters and in a rotation. dump dalton, for a little over a mil in cap space. try to retain a guy or two on the line at minimum salary for depth.
on offense. obviously we could use some help here. i think we'd benefit more in the long run to use the majority of the draft here. i don't really like any of the RB's on the FA market. i really would like to see greg jones(florida st), if, we do trade down in the first. i don't know if we could get him in the second, if we go for a guy like sean taylor with the first. with the second pick, TE. troupe(florida) or watson(georgia) would be good pickups here. as far as free agency, we don't really need to bring in anyone, just resign who we have. mccants, b johnson, moore, friedman....etc. if we can land a good blocking TE in FA for a good price, do it.
if we could restructure a deal or two(samuels in particular) we could gain a few million in cap space.
there's just so many different scenarios to go through at this point. we'll know for sure what direction we're headed, after a full week in free agency.
THN's resident jerk.

Glock .40 Model 22 - First* line of home defense.... 'ADT' is for liberals.

Joe's#1Fan
Posts: 1933
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:59 am
Location: chocowinity nc

Re: Veteran FA's v.s. Rookie Talent

Postby gibbsfan » Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:12 pm

chaddukes wrote:In a lot of the threads that I have read there seems to be little concensus as to how we should aproach our needs this offseason. There are several people stating that we should finagle our way into getting as many veterans as possible, and others stating that we should rely heavily on the draft. Of course, I think that most of us understand that the real answer will be a compromise between both Free Agency and the Draft. Still, there seems to be and underlying confrontation about how to answer our needs.

My bias is towards meeting our needs through the Draft, and I will state my reasons below. I would like to encourage the board members to express thier opinions, no matter what they are, here in this post. Explain what the reasons are for your beliefs, and how realistic your desires are. Of course, its not like any of us are going to have any input into how the team will handle this offseason, but tell us how you would like it to be handled anyway.

As I have said, I think that we should handle our needs through the draft. When I look at this team I see one area of glaring weakness, the D-line. Yes, we could use RB's, TE's and a safety, but the D-Line is the most immediate need. We can still win games with our current TE's, RB's, and Safeties if we have a decent Line. Of course, if we are able to get good players at these other positions through the draft or with undrafted rookies, that would be fine too.

Our cap space will be desparately low after we resign Bailey. I can't see how we would be able to sign a group of veterans without breaking up the core of our team. In my mind trading a bunch of guys just to make room for one stud isn't an option. We have had so much personnel turnover and we wonder why we have no team chemistry. This year we are only getting four draft picks, which eats me up. Everytime we give away draft picks to get a vet our team gets older and we lose a good source of young cheap talent, i.e. the Draft.

The outstanding D-Lines on recent contenders, such as Tampa Bay and Carolina, were built over a few years. These are young lines who have been playing together for at least two years. While there have been a few teams who have made significant improvements with the addition of one guy, i.e. Buffalo and New England, those teams had the building blocks of a good line already in place. They just needed the one missing piece. We are not in that situation. We need all the pieces, well, at least most. I just don't see how we can shell out all of our Cap Space on a Ted Washington. I would rather comb through the draft and even the undrafted rookies to find young talent who will (hopefully) be loyal to the Redskins. As one person stated in a different post, "No more mercenaries!"

In my ideal scenario I see us trading down in the first round to pick up Vince Wilfork and Steve Jackson, then we get Randy Starks, Dwan Edwards or Ben Troupe in the second round. After that we use our 3rd and 5th rounds to pick up DE, Safety, or TE positions. If we can have a draft like this I would be very happy if we then didn't get any other Vets. I'm a big proponent of young cheap talent. The above scenario should help our cap situation, and should allow us to keep some consistency on the roster while answering our needs.

I would just hate to see us revamp the entire roster to get guys like Sapp and Dillon who are aging and wont be loyal to the Redskins anyway, not to mention the cap implications.

Chad Dukes


i would put a majority of the team thru the draft period !
while keeping a select few free agents in mind, on defense in particular. while seeing thru the draft for RB and possible TE as well. although i,ve said all along about vince wilfork in the begining. but keep in mind i would look in both directions ,draft and free agency as well as undrafted free agents.
Thanks for 10 years .
HTTR



































Another Year Full Of Redskins Drama
"As The World Turns"

Hog
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:36 pm
Location: Fairfax, Virginia

Postby Redskins4Life » Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:26 am

I think we should adress D- Line more in FA than in the draft. D- Linemen are boom or bust types of players 90% of the time. Sign Ted Washington/ Sam Adams as DT's, Jevon Kearse as DE. Draft Isaac Hilton in round 4 or 5, hes gonna be a great pass rusher, and before you know it, we got a great D-Line.

and Jackson
Posts: 8384
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:37 am
Location: Charles Town, WV

Postby JansenFan » Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:22 am

I think the answer depends on what we have. If Brandon Noble is recovering nicely than I think we have the talent in place at DT to groom a few young guys. If we are faced with the prospect of going with the same DT rotation we did last year, than I think we need atleast one veteran, impact DT. Someone who is proven and can groom a draftee. Wilfolk seems like a good fit to me at his listed 345. Don't know much about himm as far as his quickness and instincts, but his sheer size means he can fall forward on the center and push him back.
RIP 21

"Nah, I trust the laws of nature to stay constant. I don't pray that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I don't need to pray that someone will beat the Cowboys in the playoffs." - Irn-Bru

~~~~~~~~
Posts: 1754
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 9:12 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Postby ii7-V7 » Fri Jan 30, 2004 12:38 pm

Redskins4Life wrote:I think we should adress D- Line more in FA than in the draft. D- Linemen are boom or bust types of players 90% of the time. Sign Ted Washington/ Sam Adams as DT's, Jevon Kearse as DE. Draft Isaac Hilton in round 4 or 5, hes gonna be a great pass rusher, and before you know it, we got a great D-Line.


Yes, that would be a great line, but what would we have to give up to get those three guys? With our salary cap situation we can't sign three guys like that without getting rid of three other guys who are just as important. And even if we could, what happens when one of them gets hurt and we are stuck paying his salary plus we have to hire more guys?

If we gave up champ then perhaps we could get two of those guys, but we would then be without a corner. As Hailskins said, I really wouldn't want to replace Champ with a rookie corner, but I wouldn't mind replacing Dalton with a Rookie DT.

Our secondary is already lacking in depth. If we get rid of Champ we would have to get at least one other vet corner, and we really should try to add some depth to that area.

You can't have stars at every position in the NFL. You can train young prospects for those positions for much cheaper.

If Brandon Noble recovers this offseason and can play at a starters level then our D-Line situation does become easier to deal with, but I'm not holding my breath.

I guess that my nervousness about this issue comes from the fact that I think Good Players on both Lines can take you far. Our O-line is pretty solid, though we could use a center. But our D-line stinks, and I feel that we are going to use this draft to pick up guys that we don't really need, and then try once again to pick up Free Agent Linemen without success. But unlike last year, I'm sure that Joe Gibbs won't fire a starting player in an already weak unit during training camp, unless he already has a replacement, ala, Big Daddy last season.

Chad

piggie
User avatar
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:03 pm
Location: Blacksburg,VA

Postby HogInBlacksburg » Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:22 pm

:up: I agree. All of our 'star' players now came through the draft (except for Coles). Kearse used to be a beast. It would be nice to have him. But, he's only started 14 games in the past 2 years. He'll want 6 mil a year. Do we want to invest that kind of money in someone who could be on the downslope? Offensive lineman outweigh him by 40 to 70 lbs., that has to take a toll. He's still great when he's in the lineup...I would rather get a DT and TE in FA and go after a pass rusher, RB and playmaker in the draft.

Return to NFL Draft 2003-2010