We may have interest in Calvin Johnson?

Archive of discussions on NFL Draft 2003, NFL Draft 2004, NFL Draft 2005, NFL Draft 2006, NFL Draft 2007 NFL Draft 2008, NFL Draft 2009 and NFL Draft 2010.
**********
User avatar
Posts: 16744
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:45 pm
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all

Postby 1niksder » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:56 pm

Gibbs' Hog wrote:
Countertrey wrote:Part of the draft game is in keeping the rest of the league guessing, and (hopefully) guessing wrong. I suspect the trip to watch Johnson had more to do with that, than the real plan.



Prior to drafting JC, I would tend to agree with this statement. But I think some of us thought the Skins had a similar plan when Joe was visiting Auburn a couple years ago (i.e. let's let the rest of the league think we might be interested in Jason Campbell...). In actuality, we truly were interested in JC and acted accordingly.

Johnson would be a steal, but I think we need to be sure we have good blockers up front (along with a solid DL pick) before we get too excited about a new WR. Just my My 2 cents


Maybe the were not there to see CJ they could have been looking at this guy

Strengths: Possesses adequate upper-body strength and flashes a strong punch. Shows good initial quickness and flashes the ability to beat defenders to the point of attack. Moves well laterally when run blocking and can reach defenders lined up outside him. Has adequate range, generally plays under control and can adjust to the moving target at the second level. Gets into pass set quickly and uses long arms to ride edge rushers past the pocket. Has quick feet and flashes the ability to redirect inside after starting outside. While lined up at defensive tackle for first three seasons of his collegiate career, showed good progress during one season lining up at tackle and should only get better as he gains experience. Though projects at guard, has experience lining up at tackle and is somewhat versatile.

Weaknesses: Doesn't always drive legs once in position, doesn't get great hand placement and has some problems sustaining blocks. Lacks a mean streak and isn't physical enough. Doesn't take great angles to blocks and has some problems getting into position. Stands up coming out of his stance and occasionally gets stalemated at the line of scrimmage. Lacks ideal experience, can take poor angles to downfield blocks and doesn't show a great understanding of position at this point. Bends at the waist rather than the knees, lacks elite size and can get pushed back into the pocket. Footwork is inconsistent and can lose balance when forced to change directions quickly.

Overall: Wrotto began his career at defensive tackle where he played in all 13 games with 12 starts as a true freshman in 2003, registering 14 total tackles (three solo) including four for loss, one sack, and one fumble recovery. In 2004, he played in all 12 games making nine starts and finished the year with 18 total tackles (four solo), including 3.5 tackles for loss, and 0.5 sacks. During spring practice in 2005, Wrotto worked out as a left guard but was switched back to defense before the season. He then appeared in all 12 games in 2005, this time with 11 starts, recording 13 total tackles (seven solo), 4.5 tackles for loss, and 3.5 sacks. Wrotto returned to the offensive line for bowl practices in December 2005 where he worked out at tackle. He officially moved over to the offensive side for the 2006 season and started all 14 games at right tackle.
Wrotto is a developmental prospect who isn't fundamentally sound and needs to be more aggressive at times. The good news is those two weaknesses can be attributed to his lack of experience at the position. If he continues to improve and gets good coaching in the NFL, he has the size, quickness and athletic ability to develop into a starter. As a result, Wrotto is worthy of an early second-day pick.

He may be around on day two
..__..
{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-

When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....

If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off

#33
Posts: 4084
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:44 am

Postby skinsfan#33 » Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:09 am

I hope we are not idiotic enough to move up (even one spot) in the draft to take a flipping WR. Last time the Skins did this it was so Gibbs could get Desmond Howard, you see how well that worked.

I would puke if we did that. I would still be ill if C.J. for some reason fell to us at 6 and we took him. Imagine how many picks we could get from a team that wants this guy.

NO WR EVER HAS BEEN WORTH A TOP TEN PICK. Even Monk and Jerry Rice. WRs are complimentary pieces of a puzzle, they are not difference makers. San Fran wins just as many SB if they don't have Rice and the Skins won 3 SB's (one with Monk, one without, and one were he was gimpy). Dallas still wins 3 SBs in the 90's without Irvin. The Patriots still win 3 SBs without... oh yeah, they didn't have any WRs.

WR are just not difference makers. Look at Arizona. The best tandom of WRs (you might argue Wayne and Harrison) in the NFL, and the Cards still suck!
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

08 Champ
Posts: 13052
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: on the bandwagon

Postby SkinsJock » Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:48 pm

Fios wrote:..I would love to see him drop to the 6th pick but that will not happen and, even if he did, he'd simply become a much larger bargaining chip, the pick would net the Redskins that much more.


exactly - we will not be drafting this future great WR - we will either be getting a future great defensive lineman or "using" the pick to help get as many future great players as we can :lol:

I understand that the NFL consider the player's pro-day as even more important than the combine "stats" so it would not surprise me that everybody who is involved with scrutinizing talent for us were at all of the pro-days of as many quality players as they can be. I hope that our talent guys get a really good idea of everyone they can because they sure have been screwing it all up the past few years.
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

RG3 will benefit from having a full off season to prepare and a better 'fit' at both HC and OC

|||||||
Posts: 4566
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:11 pm
Location: Somewhere, out there.

Postby UK Skins Fan » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:24 pm

Taylor Jacobs, Cliff Russell, Rod Gardner, Michael Westbrook, Tydus Winans, Desmond Howard, and then throw in Albert Connell, Erik Affholter, Walter Murray, Carl Powell, Art Monk.

All receivers drafted early since 1980 by the Redskins. Obviously, one name stands out, but Monk was drafted in 1980, and his name only serves to highlight the futility of the rest of the names on the list. I don't know - something tells me we should steer clear of wide receivers in the draft. We just don't seem to be able to pick 'em.
Also available on Twitter @UKSkinsFan

Fire in the Sky
Posts: 4729
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:31 am
Location: Surfside

Postby SkinsFreak » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:50 pm

Now, don't kill the messenger. Johnson was on Cold Pizza this morning and they just finished talking about him on NFL Live. Michael Smith seems to think that the Buc's have numerous young wide-outs currently on the roster, including Michael Clayton, and will pass on CJ. He thinks they will target an offensive guard or tackle.

He was subsequently asked where would be the best fit for CJ. Smith said that the Skins would be the perfect fit for CJ. He went on to say, something like..."Could you imagine... Campbell, with Portis and Betts behind him, throwing to Moss, Cooley and Calvin Johnson??? That offense would be unstoppable!" Smith thinks the Skins will land CJ.

I know we need d-line help, but I'd take Johnson in a split second if he fell to #6. I'd even consider giving the Buc's our 6th pick and Lloyd for their 4th pick, to draft Johnson. I honestly think he is well worth it and will pay huge dividends to whoever gets him. I truly believe that because I watched the kid play. He is a far better talent than Edwards, Williams, Rogers and others that some of you have pointed out to be busts and as a reason not to draft Johnson.

---
User avatar
Posts: 18570
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:55 pm
Location: AJT

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:57 pm

If CJ falls to us we better trade down and get loads of picks for this year and next years 1st or 2nd pick....

If we keep him I wont be too mad.

JC
Moss
Calvin
Are
Lloyd
Cooley
Portis

kazoo
Posts: 10195
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Kazmania

Postby KazooSkinsFan » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:08 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:Now, don't kill the messenger. Johnson was on Cold Pizza this morning and they just finished talking about him on NFL Live. Michael Smith seems to think that the Buc's have numerous young wide-outs currently on the roster, including Michael Clayton, and will pass on CJ. He thinks they will target an offensive guard or tackle.

He was subsequently asked where would be the best fit for CJ. Smith said that the Skins would be the perfect fit for CJ. He went on to say, something like..."Could you imagine... Campbell, with Portis and Betts behind him, throwing to Moss, Cooley and Calvin Johnson??? That offense would be unstoppable!" Smith thinks the Skins will land CJ.

I know we need d-line help, but I'd take Johnson in a split second if he fell to #6. I'd even consider giving the Buc's our 6th pick and Lloyd for their 4th pick, to draft Johnson. I honestly think he is well worth it and will pay huge dividends to whoever gets him. I truly believe that because I watched the kid play. He is a far better talent than Edwards, Williams, Rogers and others that some of you have pointed out to be busts and as a reason not to draft Johnson.


I understand he adds a dimension our current receivers don't have and he seem can't miss. Like Desmond and Westbrook were.

But I just don't get it, we take a big cap hit on Lloyd and use our #1 for a position we're deep on and are screwed with the DL in a draft that seems will have quality available when we pick.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like to be in a position to look to get Johson, but I just don't see for us at this time how it makes sense. And we'd be more cap constrained with Springs unresolved and the DL not addressed. Our D has to improve, we don't want to be wanting JC to win games for us all the time becuase the D can't get a stop again.
Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him

Proverb: Failure is not falling down. Failure is not getting up again

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:44 pm
Location: Frederick, MD

Postby gibbs4president » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:23 pm

Michael Clayton? Michael Smith thinks that the Bucs will pass on Calvin Johnson, an absolute monster at WR, because they have Michael Clayton??? What has he done over his career? Wasn't he supposed to start producing 2 years ago?

I don't think there's any way that Johnson falls to #6, and I'd be shocked if the Bucs didn't take him. He's the kind of downfield threat and playmaker that they should and have been looking for.

The Evil Straw
Posts: 8135
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:30 pm
Location: Leather Chair

Postby Fios » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:48 pm

1) Why would Tampa POSSIBLY take Lloyd?
2) gibbs4president is correct, there is zero chance he drops past that fourth pick. If Smith had bothered to do any research whatsoever he would have seen how awful Tampa's wideouts were last year.
RIP Sean Taylor

Fire in the Sky
Posts: 4729
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:31 am
Location: Surfside

Postby SkinsFreak » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:08 pm

I totally agree with everything everyone has said. Smith, like most everyone, has an opinion. He also talked about how CJ would significantly help our red-zone offense. But, if you look at the Buc's roster, the do have several young wide-outs, albeit no-namers, but several WR's nonetheless.

Two years ago, most Skins fans, including me, thought they were going to draft Mike Williams with the 9th overall pick. At the end of that day, I think most of us were very surprised that they took Carlos and Jason in the 1st round. We were expecting an offensive player, but instead they took a defensive player with the 9th pick. Now, two years later, I think we all can agree that passing on Williams was a smart move, as Jason and Carlos show real potential. For some strange reason though, I think the opposite may happen this year. We are expecting defense and may end up with offense. As for me, I like Johnson, and based on pure football talent, I would take him over any defensive player in this draft.

BTW - as much as I like CJ, in my heart I still think we should target the d-line, but only if we trade down. If we were to stay at #6 and not trade down, I would take Johnson straight up over Branch, Adams, Anderson or Okoye. IMO, this caliber of player trumps team needs. But only if he's there for the taking. He probably won't be and we will end up taking a defensive guy.

BUT,

JC
Moss
Calvin
Are
Lloyd
Cooley
Betts
Portis


... and that o-line? Daaaaaaaammmmmnnnnn!

Fire in the Sky
Posts: 4729
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:31 am
Location: Surfside

Postby SkinsFreak » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:16 pm

Fios wrote:1) Why would Tampa POSSIBLY take Lloyd?


Well, I was just thinking (probably why I hit golf balls for a living) that for Tampa, if they wanted a guard or a tackle, but still needed a receiver, they could get Lloyd, a decent receiver, and an o-lineman with our 6th pick. It was just an idea that I'm sure won't happen. But I like to dream, ok? :lol:

piggie
User avatar
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:21 pm
Location: San Diego, America's Finest City

Postby SeanTaylorJr. » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:34 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:Now, don't kill the messenger. Johnson was on Cold Pizza this morning and they just finished talking about him on NFL Live. Michael Smith seems to think that the Buc's have numerous young wide-outs currently on the roster, including Michael Clayton, and will pass on CJ. He thinks they will target an offensive guard or tackle.

He was subsequently asked where would be the best fit for CJ. Smith said that the Skins would be the perfect fit for CJ. He went on to say, something like..."Could you imagine... Campbell, with Portis and Betts behind him, throwing to Moss, Cooley and Calvin Johnson??? That offense would be unstoppable!" Smith thinks the Skins will land CJ.

I know we need d-line help, but I'd take Johnson in a split second if he fell to #6. I'd even consider giving the Buc's our 6th pick and Lloyd for their 4th pick, to draft Johnson. I honestly think he is well worth it and will pay huge dividends to whoever gets him. I truly believe that because I watched the kid play. He is a far better talent than Edwards, Williams, Rogers and others that some of you have pointed out to be busts and as a reason not to draft Johnson.


I wholeheartedly agree, CJ is a difference maker.

To say flat out that WR aren't difference makers is a joke. Anyone notice the STATISTICAL and WINNING effect TO had in the non crazy year with the eagles, and Mcnabb, also Stallworth too.

I would take him like that if he were there, he puts up on the field (what matters) and in the workouts, a once a decade talent

WOULD PEOPLE PLEASE STOP MENTIONING MIKE WILLIAMS AS A WR BUST!!!!!!!! DOES NO ONE REMEMBER HE SAT OUT AN ENTIRE YEAR AFTER SC, THATS LIKE 3 OFFSEASONS BACK TO BACK TO BACK; GEEZ I WONDER IF IT WOULD BE CHALLENGE TO PLAY AT A HIGHER LEVEL AFTER THAT, LET ALONE FOR A TEAM WITH NO QB AND NO OLINE. AND HE HAS SHOWN SOME PROGRESS BUT PLEASE SHOW A LITTLE PATIENCE BECAUSE OF HIS CIRCUMSTANCES.
On the eighth day God created Sean Taylor- and he was good.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1681
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:50 am
Location: Charlottesville, Va.

Postby fleetus » Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:29 pm

The only way the Skins end up with CJ is if we trade up to get him, PERIOD. Many temas have him rated their #1 player on the draft board. He will not slip past #4. Also, if CJ slipped all the way to #4 and for some completely irrational reason Tampa didn't want to draft him, they would be extremely dumb to not field offers to trade down since CJ will bring lots of interest if he does slip. I bet someone will trade with Detroit and use the #2 on CJ, IMO.
Build through the draft!

08 Champ
Posts: 13052
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: on the bandwagon

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:13 pm

SeanTaylorJr. wrote:..I would take him ... if he were there, he puts up on the field (what matters) and in the workouts, a once in a decade talent.


I think what most are saying is that we hope he is regarded as potentially the best WR ever to play in the NFL because if he is that highly regarded and I think he could be then we will get a lot in return :wink:
Johnson is only 1 future HOF player and he will never win a Super Bowl by himself BUT if we can get 3 or 4 future HOF players for him and go to 3 or 4 Super Bowls, I will personally be at Canton when he goes in to say "thank you" for helping build a dynasty in DC :lol:
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

RG3 will benefit from having a full off season to prepare and a better 'fit' at both HC and OC

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1681
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:50 am
Location: Charlottesville, Va.

Postby fleetus » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:18 pm

I see Atlanta taking the extra 2nd round picks they got from Houston (for Schaub) and the #8 overall pick to move up to #2 with Detroit to draft CJ. Georgia Tech player gets to stay home and play for the falcons with Vick as his QB. A match made in heaven. Detoit would get exactly what they wanted as well.
Build through the draft!

Return to NFL Draft 2003-2010