Hypothetical Scenario

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Who do you like?

Okoye
16
59%
Branch
2
7%
Anderson
1
4%
Adams
5
19%
Other
3
11%
 
Total votes : 27
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Hypothetical Scenario

Postby SkinsFreak » Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:05 pm

Let's assume for a moment, as a hypothetical scenario, that we can't trade down and have to stay at #6.

Everyone is in agreement that we need defensive line help. The following four candidates seem to be the cream of the crop:

Amobi Okoye
Alan Branch
Jamaal Anderson
Gaines Adams

... or other player.

Assuming we can't trade down, who do you take?

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Postby 1niksder » Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:27 pm

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Postby SkinsFreak » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:13 am

:lol: No stones, huh? 43 "views" and no one can decide who they'd take?

That's the problem, IMO. All good players but not one of them really stands out at #6 or concidered to be worthy of the guaranteed money at #6. Currently, some say Gaines is worth it... but some don't.

But if we could trade down a few spots, and that is contingent on other teams, then one of these guys is worth a shot. But at #6? I just don't know. That's why I think some are projecting a guy like Landry to go to the Skins.

This increased importance at tight end also has driven up the value of safeties. Last year, three of the top eight picks were tight ends or safeties. With more teams looking for a matchup advantage from athletic tight ends, defensive coordinators no longer can afford to consider free safety and strong safety as mutually exclusive positions.

Safeties who can do it all (support the run, match up one-on-one in the slot and hold up in deep-middle zone coverage) are worth big bucks. That's why it should be no surprise that after the 49ers took Davis No. 6 last year, the next two players selected were Michael Huff (Raiders, No. 7) and Donte Whitner (Bills, No. -- both 203-pound safeties who hit like linebackers and cover like cornerbacks.

The recent shift in this trend bodes well for LSU safety Laron Landry and Miami TE Greg Olsen, as both could be top-15 selections.


http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23263

It's gonna get interesting!

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Postby SkinsFreak » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:28 am

Something interesting...

3. Which player is likely to disappoint after his rookie season?
No one can predict where the bust label should be put and in fact, it's a bad idea to think anyone can figure it out. Quarterbacks always stand the chance of being labeled, especially if they go to bad teams and have to play too early.

When I posed this question to two personnel, they both thought the highest risk in the first round is with the pass rushers, especially Jamaal Anderson and Jarvis Moss. They are two very talented young players, but considering what happened to Mario Williams his rookie season, there are issues that scare some teams.

Williams came out of college as a 6-foot-6, 295-pound specimen who had 26½ sacks in college and 35 reps on the bench press test. He finished up his rookie season with 4½ sacks. Mathias Kiwanuka had 37½ sacks at Boston College, but only got to the QB four times as a rookie. Kameron Wimbley had excellent numbers as a rookie, but he was moved to outside linebacker and the scheme helped him. If Anderson and Moss have to play with their hands on the ground, then there might be some concern.

Both players left school early, have under 20 college starts and neither one is much more than a one dimensional pass rusher at this point. Neither has demonstrated the power and strength to hold up on the line of scrimmage. Moss only had 16 reps on the bench (eight less than Quinn) and Anderson's 22 reps isn't much better. Neither player comes to pro football with 20 career sacks in college. Moss has 15 and Anderson 17½, which probably translates to very pedestrian numbers as rookies. I would never call any player a 'bust' before he gets his chance to perform. But there are clear cut concerns about the pass rushers in this draft.


http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10119448

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Postby funbuncher » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:27 pm

You make a good point SkinsFreak. I myself have been waffling back and forth for months about which D-lineman to take just because it is such a need position. But safety is a need too, arguably not as big a need, but with an "elite" prospect like Landry and at least "some" need at that position, it doesn't seem as unwise as many on this board make it out to be. If Julius Peppers was sitting there I might feel differently, but...

Landry is the TOP OVERALL DEFENSIVE PLAYER IN THIS DRAFT according to Scouts Inc. He was a 4 year starter at a big time program, and also has a less talented older brother who was considered a fifth round steal for the Ravens at FS. He's a vocal team leader, and coaches rave about his ability to pick things up quick, which we all know will be necessary if he is going to see the field his rookie year in our defense. He is being compared to Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, and Brian Dawkins.

I think I've stopped waffling.

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Postby UK Skins Fan » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:34 pm

funbuncher wrote:I think I've stopped waffling.

Sure? :wink:

I want the Redskins to pick up a defensive end. But I too have seen the doubts about the ends available at the top of the draft. I think there are less doubts about the tackles, and I'd personally be happy with either Okoye or Branch (as of right now).
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Postby everydayAskinsday » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:51 pm

theres no way I would be happy with taking Branch in the 6 spot..only way i would be satisfied with him is if we traded down and picked him up around the 15th spot .. I still say we take Landry though

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Postby funbuncher » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:57 pm

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskins ... rkout.html

JLC confirming the heavy Redskins presence at LSU pro day, including Greg Williams. Apparently he had a "killer" workout.

I wonder if GW has any less clout in personnel decisions after the AA debacle?

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Postby PulpExposure » Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:31 pm

funbuncher wrote:http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/04/landry_workout.html

JLC confirming the heavy Redskins presence at LSU pro day, including Greg Williams. Apparently he had a "killer" workout.

I wonder if GW has any less clout in personnel decisions after the AA debacle?


Hey guys, there's this safety I....(Door slams in face).

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Postby SkinsFreak » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:08 pm

UK Skins Fan wrote:I think there are less doubts about the tackles, and I'd personally be happy with either Okoye or Branch (as of right now).


Agreed UK. I personally like Okoye a little better, as I explained in the Okoye thread, but not if we have to stay at #6.

I have a few questions however...

I always hear around here that we need to develop the young players we already have and stop wasting picks and cap money on positions we already have or don't necessarily need. "DEVELOP OUR OWN" I always hear or read.

So... with that in mind...

I'm still confident in Griffin. He had a lousy year, due to injury, but he wasn't the only one. He is only 30 years old and I think he has a few good years left in him.

We drafted two DT's last year, Golston and Montgomery. Are we not going to develop these guys? Is there really room for another DT on the roster? Would we not upset the chemistry of the locker room, as I hear some of you talk about all the time, by drafting a 1st round DT when we already got these two DT's last year? How would Griffin, Golston and Montgomery feel about that?

I'm not saying Montgomery is going to be a superstar. On the other hand, Golston is looking good. But wouldn't that be a slap in the face to these guys to get another one? Wouldn't that be saying... "sorry guys, we have no faith in you and we don't want to waste our time to develop your skills"? And if Montgomery fails to work out, wouldn't that just be a waste of another draft pick... again?

And further, I don't hear any of the experts saying that we need another DT. A pass rusher, yes, but not a DT. Yes, there are some mocks that have us taking a DT, but they are not experts in my book. Would we need to upgrade that position next year? Probably. But I still feel pretty good about the potential of Griffin and Golston, with Salave'a and Montgomery backing them up, at least for this year.

Just a thought... My 2 cents

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Postby SkinsJock » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:15 pm

Considering that Williams future will depend a lot on his success with the defense this year and given the high regard that Gibbs has for this guy - IMO, Williams will have the key input on who he wants :lol:

IF we cannot get the "deal" we need for the 6 pick, Williams will decide who he wants and Gibbs will take that pick!
We are very fortunate to have Kirk Cousins but Griffin has a huge upside IMO

Robert needs to continue to get better and to do that he needs time on the field - hopefully sooner than later

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Postby Redskin in Canada » Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:49 pm

I voted "Other". I also like Laron Landry. :oops:

There! I am out of the closet. :lol:
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Postby PulpExposure » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:39 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:And further, I don't hear any of the experts saying that we need another DT. A pass rusher, yes, but not a DT.


Ah, there you go again with "any of the experts". You need to stop being so damn absolute :)

Scouts.com has DT as an area of need, albiet behind DE.

The biggest hole on this team right now is at the DE position. Clemson's Gaines Adams is a strong possibility, if the Redskins are still in the sixth spot and he is on the board. Washington set a franchise-record low with only 19 sacks last season and needs a big-time pass rusher to take some pressure off the secondary.

The defensive tackle position needs to be upgraded.


And I like Griffin a lot, but he's had serious injury concerns lately. If he stayed healthy, I completely agree we'd be fine. But I think he's gotten to the point where he's getting nagging injuries that don't really heal, reinjuring them, and so we can't count on him so much.

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Postby SkinsFreak » Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:43 am

PulpExposure wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:And further, I don't hear any of the experts saying that we need another DT. A pass rusher, yes, but not a DT.


Ah, there you go again with "any of the experts". You need to stop being so damn absolute :)

Scouts.com has DT as an area of need, albiet behind DE.

The biggest hole on this team right now is at the DE position. Clemson's Gaines Adams is a strong possibility, if the Redskins are still in the sixth spot and he is on the board. Washington set a franchise-record low with only 19 sacks last season and needs a big-time pass rusher to take some pressure off the secondary.

The defensive tackle position needs to be upgraded.


And I like Griffin a lot, but he's had serious injury concerns lately. If he stayed healthy, I completely agree we'd be fine. But I think he's gotten to the point where he's getting nagging injuries that don't really heal, reinjuring them, and so we can't count on him so much.


I'm sorry, perhaps I should have articulated that in a different way. Sure, I've read many times that the DT position is an area of need. My point was, no one is really projecting us to take a DT at #6. Every team has "areas of need".

Let's take a look at the current roster:

Starters: Griffin and Golston

Back-ups: Salave'a, Montgomery, Jarad Clauss, Lorenzo Alaxander, Vaka Manupuna, and oh by the way, they just re-signed Ryan Boschetti.

That's a total of 8 DT's. Ok, we know Clauss, Alaxander and Manupuna probably won't make it.

So we are down to 5 DT's. If we draft one at #6, now we are at 6 DT's.

There's very little chance a 53-man roster can support 6 DT's. You don't need 4 back-ups for 2 positions. I'm not saying it absolutely can't happen, but I seriously doubt it.

And what ever happened to the notion of developing our own, as I hear around here all the time?

Now, I'm not saying they won't take a DT in this year's draft, but in my opinion, DE and safety are a bigger concern.

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Postby PulpExposure » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:12 am

SkinsFreak wrote:[Now, I'm not saying they won't take a DT in this year's draft, but in my opinion, DE and safety are a bigger concern.


Yeah, I hear you. I just also know that with Ryan Clark as our other starting safety, we were 3rd and 9th overall in defense. As long as we get someone reasonably competant with Taylor, and I think Stoutmire or Prioleau are competant, I think safety is less of a concern.

I really like Golston. I don't know what to make of Montgomery, because he hasn't played much. Salavea played pretty bad last year (but he was dinged up), and Boschetti....let's face it, he's a body, nothing more.

Our DTs were getting pushed all over the field last year, and generated no pass rush (Griffin led our DTs with 1 whole sack. The other DTs generated, combined 1 whole other sack. I know you often don't get huge sack stats from DTs but...2 sacks from the DT position is awful). I think DE is the first priority, but DT is a strong second priority.

19 sacks and 4.5 yards per carry given up is just abysmal. And a lot of that was right up the gut (and the rest was off the weak side, over Carter and Holdman, yeah).

Edited to add: Btw appreciate the dialogue. It's been friendly (though contentious), it is nice to read another fan's considered and well stated viewpoint.

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