4th pick in 2010

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Who should the Redskins pick 4th in the draft?

Sam Bradford
3
6%
Eric Berry
2
4%
C.J. Spiller
4
9%
Russell Okung
38
81%
 
Total votes : 47
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Postby SkinsJock » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:59 am

KazooSkinsFan wrote: Clearly we agree we need to put a lot more attention to OL then we have been. From Shanahan's background I am guessing that's a given. All I'm saying with the #4 is I wouldn't take a mediocre OL with that specific pick and bypass a far more talented player. Though it would hurt me if it were a D player, we just so badly need O help.


agreed KAZ - but hopefully they don't take a RB - the 'plan' should be for the longer term - the RB position is not an immediate need here - even Barry Sanders did not make his team a much better team, better yes, but not what we are thinking here, I hope :)
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:07 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote: Clearly we agree we need to put a lot more attention to OL then we have been. From Shanahan's background I am guessing that's a given. All I'm saying with the #4 is I wouldn't take a mediocre OL with that specific pick and bypass a far more talented player. Though it would hurt me if it were a D player, we just so badly need O help.


agreed KAZ - but hopefully they don't take a RB - the 'plan' should be for the longer term - the RB position is not an immediate need here - even Barry Sanders did not make his team a much better team, better yes, but not what we are thinking here, I hope :)


And Sanders had a FAR BETTER OL than we do! Much better than people give it credit.
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:13 pm

Deadskins wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Here is how football math 101 works:

No OL = NO Running game

It doesn't matter who the RB is the math is the same.

How do you explain Barry Sanders, then?


Sanders had a darn good OL! I know everyone kept saying' "If he only had Emmitt's OL". He had a ver solid OL. It might not have been the 90s Cowgirls OL or the Hogs, but it was way above average!

Math still works with Sanders,
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Postby Deadskins » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:30 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Here is how football math 101 works:

No OL = NO Running game

It doesn't matter who the RB is the math is the same.

How do you explain Barry Sanders, then?


Sanders had a darn good OL! I know everyone kept saying' "If he only had Emmitt's OL". He had a ver solid OL. It might not have been the 90s Cowgirls OL or the Hogs, but it was way above average!

Math still works with Sanders,

Not true. I saw a study once about how many times Sanders go hit behind the LOS in comparison with other top backs, and his line just didn't stack up. Emmit Smith was the product of logetivity, not greatness. He was a good, durable player, but nowhere near BS in ability.
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Postby langleyparkjoe » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:55 pm

Lookin at the poll results if they pick any of those guys other than Okung plenty of folks on here will be furious!!!
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:02 pm

Deadskins wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Here is how football math 101 works:

No OL = NO Running game

It doesn't matter who the RB is the math is the same.

How do you explain Barry Sanders, then?


Sanders had a darn good OL! I know everyone kept saying' "If he only had Emmitt's OL". He had a ver solid OL. It might not have been the 90s Cowgirls OL or the Hogs, but it was way above average!

Math still works with Sanders,

Not true. I saw a study once about how many times Sanders go hit behind the LOS in comparison with other top backs, and his line just didn't stack up. Emmit Smith was the product of logetivity, not greatness. He was a good, durable player, but nowhere near BS in ability.


Dude, I'm not going to get into the whole Emmitt is better than Barry (or the other way around) my point was, Barry had a good OL. Every year except Barry's last year he ran behind a line with at least one probowl OL. Heck Lomas Brown (7 time probowler) and Kevin Glover (3 time PB) were both probowlers in 1995.

Here is something else you have to understand. His OL knew they had no idea where Barry was going to run with the ball. They didn't kill themselves trying to open a whole that Barry wasn't going to run through. They just kind of got on a block and let Barry figure out where he was going to go. If they had been blocking for Emmitt, they would have been busting their humps to open the hole where it was supposed to be.

Dallas' OL would have stopped opening those huge holes if Barry was in the backfield, because, what would be the point. Barry was going to go where ever he wanted.

Maybe I didn't discribe that well but you can take an OL that blocks great for a Riggins, S Davis, or Byner type runner but thrown in a scat back and the next thing you know the holes are no longer there!

As an OL, why break your neck if more often than not your back is going to pass up a play that is blocked for a 2-3 yard dive and try to hit a home run by bouncing it outside.

That is why Barry got tackled in the backfield so often. He got caught trying to hit a home run when he should have taken the 2-3 yard dive!

By the way, Emmitt was far and away the better overall RB.
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Postby Deadskins » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:58 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Here is how football math 101 works:

No OL = NO Running game

It doesn't matter who the RB is the math is the same.

How do you explain Barry Sanders, then?


Sanders had a darn good OL! I know everyone kept saying' "If he only had Emmitt's OL". He had a ver solid OL. It might not have been the 90s Cowgirls OL or the Hogs, but it was way above average!

Math still works with Sanders,

Not true. I saw a study once about how many times Sanders go hit behind the LOS in comparison with other top backs, and his line just didn't stack up. Emmit Smith was the product of logetivity, not greatness. He was a good, durable player, but nowhere near BS in ability.


Dude, I'm not going to get into the whole Emmitt is better than Barry (or the other way around) my point was, Barry had a good OL. Every year except Barry's last year he ran behind a line with at least one probowl OL. Heck Lomas Brown (7 time probowler) and Kevin Glover (3 time PB) were both probowlers in 1995.

Here is something else you have to understand. His OL knew they had no idea where Barry was going to run with the ball. They didn't kill themselves trying to open a whole that Barry wasn't going to run through. They just kind of got on a block and let Barry figure out where he was going to go. If they had been blocking for Emmitt, they would have been busting their humps to open the hole where it was supposed to be.

Dallas' OL would have stopped opening those huge holes if Barry was in the backfield, because, what would be the point. Barry was going to go where ever he wanted.

Maybe I didn't discribe that well but you can take an OL that blocks great for a Riggins, S Davis, or Byner type runner but thrown in a scat back and the next thing you know the holes are no longer there!

As an OL, why break your neck if more often than not your back is going to pass up a play that is blocked for a 2-3 yard dive and try to hit a home run by bouncing it outside.

That is why Barry got tackled in the backfield so often. He got caught trying to hit a home run when he should have taken the 2-3 yard dive!

By the way, Emmitt was far and away the better overall RB.

That last line alone proves you don't know what you are talking about.

Emmitt's career yards per carry 4.2
Barry's career yards per carry 5.0

Emmitt's career yards per reception 6.3
Barry's career yards per reception 8.3


But I wasn't trying to turn it into a Barry Vs. Emmitt debate either. As to your OL point: One good O lineman out of five doesn't make a good line. Chris Samuels is one of the best of his generation, yet you can't say that the Skins have had good OLs during his career. And your point about not blocking because BS did not go to the assigned hole is laughable on its face.
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:38 pm

Deadskins wrote:And your point about not blocking because BS did not go to the assigned hole is laughable on its face.


Just because you laugh at it doesn't change the fact that it is a very common NFL phenomenon.

NFl OL block less aggressively for scat backs than they do for power backs. That is just the way it works. I'm sorry if you haven't been observant enough to pick that up.
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Postby VetSkinsFan » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:37 am

Did Barry or Emmit declare for the draft again? At their ages, I doubt we'd get them with the 4th overall pick.
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Postby chiefhog44 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:06 am

I'm really interested in the O-lineman that Shannahan has drafted in the past and what round they were selected. I'm thinking that he takes smaller, more versitile players who would naturally go later in the draft. If that is the case, pick a corner. Please do not draft a RB in the first round. What a waste. They're a dime a dozen and good thing Shannahan knows that.
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:15 am

chiefhog44 wrote:I'm really interested in the O-lineman that Shannahan has drafted in the past and what round they were selected. I'm thinking that he takes smaller, more versitile players who would naturally go later in the draft. If that is the case, pick a corner. Please do not draft a RB in the first round. What a waste. They're a dime a dozen and good thing Shannahan knows that.


I agree 100%. Only possitions that should be considered on day one are LT, RT, RG, and QB.
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Postby VetSkinsFan » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:54 am

chiefhog44 wrote:I'm really interested in the O-lineman that Shannahan has drafted in the past and what round they were selected. I'm thinking that he takes smaller, more versitile players who would naturally go later in the draft. If that is the case, pick a corner. Please do not draft a RB in the first round. What a waste. They're a dime a dozen and good thing Shannahan knows that.


Those small lineman would be at a disadvantage in the NFC East.
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Postby brad7686 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:32 pm

chiefhog44 wrote:I'm really interested in the O-lineman that Shannahan has drafted in the past and what round they were selected. I'm thinking that he takes smaller, more versitile players who would naturally go later in the draft. If that is the case, pick a corner. Please do not draft a RB in the first round. What a waste. They're a dime a dozen and good thing Shannahan knows that.


There's a difference between being small and being bad. Many smallish linemen get taken early because their speed is an asset.
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Postby The Hogster » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:22 pm

If possible, I would trade back. This year's draft is heavier on lineman than year's past. We could potentially grab 2 lineman with high grades and a Quarterback for Shanahan to groom. Colt McCoy might not be a bad grab in the Second round if we run the ball like we expect and get better line play.
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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:12 pm

I'm not sure of the value of that 4th pick but if the FO is not certain about getting a future great offensive lineman OR QB then I'd hope we can trade out of that slot even if the trade involves picks in next year's draft because we are going to need 2 drafts and a lot of luck to have a good offensive line in 2011 - this season is just a building year and anyone that expects a miracle is just deluding themselves

we all should just hope we get a lot of new young players in here that we can make into really good players that can be here for a long while

I know that a lot of guys will be drinking the cool-aid but getting a decent offensive line is going to take more than 2 years
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Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

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