Why we probably draft a QB with the 4th overall pick

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Why we probably draft a QB with the 4th overall pick

Postby NEWSKINSFAN119 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:46 am

Listen I know I am new on this board and I am going to be ripped to shreds for even suggesting this , but history shows us that new coaching staffs (without an established winning franchise QB in place) take QBs in the first round for example over the past two years we have seen it from Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco in Atlanta and Baltimore to Mark Sanchez in NY , Matt Stafford in Detroit and Josh Freeman in Tampa Bay. If the FO believes that Clausen or Bradford can be the guy they will take him , and yeah I know we need OLs to protect the said investment in a QB and I know high draft pick QBs can fail but drafting is a crap shoot who says Okung doesn't bust like Gallery or Mike Williams. Drafting a player is evaluating skill set and personality just like hiring a guy for a job in any field , just because someone fits a desperate need doesn't mean you ignore a more qualified and potentially more beneficial candidate. Great teams (with some exceptions) have great or very good QBs look at the saints for instance they took a chance on a QB like Drew Brees who was coming off injury (yeah he was established but he was still a risk) and by no means did they have all the pieces around at the time in 2006 to be where they are today they were 3-13 following the 05 season . Another example are the Indianapolis Colts after drafting Manning in 1998 they sucked his first season but have been a perennial playoff team since and they don't do it with first round tackles or guards but with virtual no names the only star on that OL is Jeff Saturday and he is close to retiring. What I am saying is the OL can be rebuilt and it doesn't have to be done in one draft but if that once in a generation QB is available you take him we haven't had a great QB here since fill in the blank wouldn't it be nice to have the next Brees, Manning ,Brady etc. I know this fan base and I am one of them is desperate for a winner again but really does it matter how it gets done. If we take a QB at #4 don't you think the FO will do everything in its power to make him succeed and lead this franchise back to glory. Hail
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Postby HEROHAMO » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:53 am

You bring up a very good point.
New coaches always bring in a new QB. Not necessarily through the draft though. It may also be through trade or free agency.
Also the new coaches may not like the prospects in the NFL draft this year?
However I am sure a QB change is on the horizon. When the change will happen is the question?
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Postby VetSkinsFan » Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:03 am

The point that most make is that there's not that once in a generation QB in the draft. If there's not that clear cut choice as with Stafford, Sanchez last year, then we go with the OL pick IMO, and I think that's what the general consensus is.

I guess it all hinges on how much faith the new regime has in JC (no, I'm not trying to derail this thread, but it's applicable). I think we can hang on to JC and rebuild around him. He's adequate with a competent line in front of him. This allows the focus to be on the OL and other needs. After we strengthen the OL and JC doesn't cut it, then bon voyage, JC!

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Postby NEWSKINSFAN119 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:39 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:The point that most make is that there's not that once in a generation QB in the draft. If there's not that clear cut choice as with Stafford, Sanchez last year, then we go with the OL pick IMO, and I think that's what the general consensus is.

I guess it all hinges on how much faith the new regime has in JC (no, I'm not trying to derail this thread, but it's applicable). I think we can hang on to JC and rebuild around him. He's adequate with a competent line in front of him. This allows the focus to be on the OL and other needs. After we strengthen the OL and JC doesn't cut it, then bon voyage, JC!

My 2 cents


Agreed I really don't feel either QB is that one in a generation guy and I want Okung at #4 but the FO may see it differently personally I like JC but who knows Shanahan may think he can groom Clausen or Bradford and turn him into the next Elway , to be a head coach in the NFL and a successful one you have to have a pretty big ego and his ego and a desire for his guy may trump the obvious choice of Okung.
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Postby PulpExposure » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:19 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:The point that most make is that there's not that once in a generation QB in the draft. If there's not that clear cut choice as with Stafford, Sanchez last year, then we go with the OL pick IMO, and I think that's what the general consensus is.


What's interesting when I read that kind of thing, is that the common consensus among NFL talent types was that Bradford would have been the 1st pick in the draft if he had come out last year.

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Postby NEWSKINSFAN119 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:29 am

PulpExposure wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:The point that most make is that there's not that once in a generation QB in the draft. If there's not that clear cut choice as with Stafford, Sanchez last year, then we go with the OL pick IMO, and I think that's what the general consensus is.


What's interesting when I read that kind of thing, is that the common consensus among NFL talent types was that Bradford would have been the 1st pick in the draft if he had come out last year.


That why guys like Mel Kiper and Todd McShay have as much skill forecasting the draft as some guy off the street IMO. A year ago if Bradford comes out he goes to Detroit or another top 10 team. Look at Matt Lienart same deal came out in 06 instead of 05 and the same thing will happen to Jake Locker. Anyway back to the point which is neither of these guys IMO is a sure bet so they really shouldn't draft either however we all know Dan's track record he sees a shiny toy he likes and he may not be able to resist plus Shanahan may fall in love with one of them at the combine or their workouts. If we do draft one of these guys lets hope that they don't get killed behind our OL and become another Joey Harrington or David Carr. :shock:
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Postby chiefhog44 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:36 pm

The only way you pick a QB in the first round is if you project him to be a once in a decade QB. If you draft someone who is not, to play behind one of the worst O-line's in the league, it's just a waste of a pick. The kid will be so shellshocked, he'll be out of the league in 3 years.
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Re: Why we probably draft a QB with the 4th overall pick

Postby crazyhorse1 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:52 pm

NEWSKINSFAN119 wrote:Listen I know I am new on this board and I am going to be ripped to shreds for even suggesting this , but history shows us that new coaching staffs (without an established winning franchise QB in place) take QBs in the first round for example over the past two years we have seen it from Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco in Atlanta and Baltimore to Mark Sanchez in NY , Matt Stafford in Detroit and Josh Freeman in Tampa Bay. If the FO believes that Clausen or Bradford can be the guy they will take him , and yeah I know we need OLs to protect the said investment in a QB and I know high draft pick QBs can fail but drafting is a crap shoot who says Okung doesn't bust like Gallery or Mike Williams. Drafting a player is evaluating skill set and personality just like hiring a guy for a job in any field , just because someone fits a desperate need doesn't mean you ignore a more qualified and potentially more beneficial candidate. Great teams (with some exceptions) have great or very good QBs look at the saints for instance they took a chance on a QB like Drew Brees who was coming off injury (yeah he was established but he was still a risk) and by no means did they have all the pieces around at the time in 2006 to be where they are today they were 3-13 following the 05 season . Another example are the Indianapolis Colts after drafting Manning in 1998 they sucked his first season but have been a perennial playoff team since and they don't do it with first round tackles or guards but with virtual no names the only star on that OL is Jeff Saturday and he is close to retiring. What I am saying is the OL can be rebuilt and it doesn't have to be done in one draft but if that once in a generation QB is available you take him we haven't had a great QB here since fill in the blank wouldn't it be nice to have the next Brees, Manning ,Brady etc. I know this fan base and I am one of them is desperate for a winner again but really does it matter how it gets done. If we take a QB at #4 don't you think the FO will do everything in its power to make him succeed and lead this franchise back to glory. Hail


As much as I hate it and want a couple of OL one and two so our line never ever duplicates the ludicrous play it was guilty of last year, I am pretty darn sure the Skins will draft Bradford no. 4 and that Bradford will get mauled, if he plays. For that reason, I'm not sure I'm looking forward to the season. It's usually ok to take a chance with a passer as accurate at Bradford because one generally has an OL that's not the laughing stock of the league. But, we do have a line that is the laughing stock of the league, so the calculus of the whole deal changes. Without radical action in re to the OL, we'll continue our culture of losing and the team will fall even further apart. Guys who can play (who are on the defensive side, as well as WR's and RB) will quickly become demoralized when Campbell and Bradford get flattened. There'll be a lot of head shaking.

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Postby SkinsJock » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:47 pm

Why is everyone that does not want this franchise to take a QB with the 4th pick think that means that he will be playing behind a line that will get him killed or hurt OR that will mean that he cannot develop into the QB that these guys think he can be?

IF Shanahan and Allen think that Bradford OR Claussen offer great potential at the QB position

AND

IF Shanahan and Allen think that the other players available at the #4 pick are not worth drafting at such a high number (this pick is almost guaranteed a small fortune)

IF either is true then we need to pick a QB

NOW - why is it a given that the QB is not going to be successful? - why is it also not a given that the OL or DL might not work out as well as should be expected from such a high picK?


I think it's really simple that given that we have a QB (Campbell) now that we know cannot play behind a suspect line and that we need to upgrade the offensive line at every position - no matter who is the QB we are going to need a good offensive line and why not take a QB with the #4 pick if they think there's even the slightest chance that he'll be better than Campbell in 2-3 years time :D

Fact is, Campbell will not be the QB here in 2-3 years - If Shanahan thinks that he can make either of these 2 (Bradford or Claussen) be good NFL QBs, then we have to take that guy with the 4th pick and get him ready to play as soon as he can take snaps behind a decent offensive line - we cannot afford to wait and see with Campbell
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Postby crazyhorse1 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:49 pm

SkinsJock wrote:Why is everyone that does not want this franchise to take a QB with the 4th pick think that means that he will be playing behind a line that will get him killed or hurt OR that will mean that he cannot develop into the QB that these guys think he can be?

IF Shanahan and Allen think that Bradford OR Claussen offer great potential at the QB position

AND

IF Shanahan and Allen think that the other players available at the #4 pick are not worth drafting at such a high number (this pick is almost guaranteed a small fortune)

IF either is true then we need to pick a QB

NOW - why is it a given that the QB is not going to be successful? - why is it also not a given that the OL or DL might not work out as well as should be expected from such a high picK?


I think it's really simple that given that we have a QB (Campbell) now that we know cannot play behind a suspect line and that we need to upgrade the offensive line at every position - no matter who is the QB we are going to need a good offensive line and why not take a QB with the #4 pick if they think there's even the slightest chance that he'll be better than Campbell in 2-3 years time :D

Fact is, Campbell will not be the QB here in 2-3 years - If Shanahan thinks that he can make either of these 2 (Bradford or Claussen) be good NFL QBs, then we have to take that guy with the 4th pick and get him ready to play as soon as he can take snaps behind a decent offensive line - we cannot afford to wait and see with Campbell


The trouble with your basic point of view is that the Skins have that point of view every year.. Every year, no matter how much trouble the OL is in, a rationale develops regarding a sexier player at a more glamorous position and we always go there. What's the MO gotten us. 4 and 12. It's time to stop acquiring glamor guys and load up on solid players. Campbell can become a better QB than either Ripien or Doug Williams. Frankly, a lot of average quarterbacks have won Super Bowls and a lot of potentially great quarterbacks remain relatively unknown because of poor blocking.

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Postby Deadskins » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:56 pm

chiefhog44 wrote:The only way you pick a QB in the first round is if you project him to be a once in a decade QB. If you draft someone who is not, to play behind one of the worst O-line's in the league, it's just a waste of a pick. The kid will be so shellshocked, he'll be out of the league in 3 years.

You don't necessarily have to start him season 1.
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Postby brad7686 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:15 pm

Deadskins wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:The only way you pick a QB in the first round is if you project him to be a once in a decade QB. If you draft someone who is not, to play behind one of the worst O-line's in the league, it's just a waste of a pick. The kid will be so shellshocked, he'll be out of the league in 3 years.

You don't necessarily have to start him season 1.


Yea, we know. Problem is we have a chance to draft an elite OT or take a qb with questions. Also, we more than likely need TWO OT's out of this draft, if we even want to field a competitive team next year. Drafting a qb in the first round this draft guarantees a lack of competitiveness for next season, where if you solidify the line and maybe add a rb, wr, etc. the team might not be that bad.
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Postby Manchester_Redskin » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:48 am

Just read this ....

It looks like Mike Shanahan a top quarterback prospect with Washington’s fourth overall draft pick. Jason Campbell, a free agent, won’t be back, and the Redskins’ rebuiling process will likely start with a franchise QB, according to the Washington Post.

Shanahan also needs to overhaul his offensive line, but eyes are on both Oklahoma’s Sam Bradford and Notre Dame’s Jimmy Clausen high in the first round. The former Broncos coach and general manager has proved adept at finding good lineman throughout the draft, so that makes sense.

Shanahan, working with new GM Bruce Allen, has so far kept his plans mostly under wraps, and at this point, the Redskins have plenty of work to do to catch up to the Cowboys, Eagles and Giants.

In this passing league, however, Washington needs a top-flight QB, especially that Tony Romo, Donovan McNabb and Eli Manning already occupy space in the divison.


This is the link to the washington post article

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/jason-reid/shanahans-plan-will-become-cle.html

The article reads...

The end of the Super Bowl marks the beginning of the NFL's offseason, which figures to be a busy time for the Redskins' new management team.

Coach Mike Shanahan and General Manager Bruce Allen have revealed little publicly about their plans for a team coming off consecutive last-place finishes in the NFC East. But it seems obvious the roster needs to be improved after last season's 4-12 debacle in which the Redskins had one of the league's least effective offensive lines, no running backs with "home run" potential and gave up too many big passing plays because of breakdowns in the secondary.

The Redskins currently hold the No. 4 overall pick in the three-day draft (April 22-24). In addition to Washington's No. 1 pick, it also has selections in the second, fourth, fifth and seventh rounds. In order to select defensive lineman Jeremy Jarmon in the previous supplemental draft, the Redskins surrendered their third-round pick. Their sixth-round pick went to the Miami Dolphins in the Jason Taylor trade.

The offensive line would seem to be an obvious place to start for Allen and Shanahan, especially with the expected retirement of Pro Bowl left tackle Chris Samuels because of a severe neck injury. But Shanahan is eager to draft and develop a young quarterback, a league source familiar with his thinking said recently, and former Oklahoma quarterback Sam Bradford has been linked with the Redskins in most early mock drafts. Former Notre Dame quarterback Jimmy Clausen also often has been listed as a possible top pick of the Redskins.

A Redskins contingent will be in Indianapolis for the combine that begins Feb. 24, and free agency and the trading period begin March 5. Regardless how they attempt to fill needs, the Redskins appear to have glaring deficiencies along the offensive line and at cornerback behind top corner DeAngelo Hall.

Despite his obvious physical gifts, safety LaRon Landry appeared to regress last season. And will Pro Bowl defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth, who expressed frustration about the team's disciplined 4-3 defensive scheme last season, be content playing nose tackle, even if only occasionally, in the 3-4 scheme new defensive coordinator Jim Haslett might switch to next season?

One way or another, the plan Shanahan and Allen have to rebuild the Redskins will become clearer soon.

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Postby VetSkinsFan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:34 pm

that's all speculation or common knowledge. Unnamed sources can be me the moron with a redskins opinion as well as someone who actually has knowledge of the situation. Especially this far off.
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Postby Deadskins » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:40 pm

brad7686 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:The only way you pick a QB in the first round is if you project him to be a once in a decade QB. If you draft someone who is not, to play behind one of the worst O-line's in the league, it's just a waste of a pick. The kid will be so shellshocked, he'll be out of the league in 3 years.

You don't necessarily have to start him season 1.


Yea, we know. Problem is we have a chance to draft an elite OT or take a qb with questions. Also, we more than likely need TWO OT's out of this draft, if we even want to field a competitive team next year. Drafting a qb in the first round this draft guarantees a lack of competitiveness for next season, where if you solidify the line and maybe add a rb, wr, etc. the team might not be that bad.

I don't care about next year's team having a good year. I want them to build for the long term future. If that means getting a franchise QB, then so be it. Like the OP said, lineman can be found throughout the early rounds of the draft, but if you have an opportunity to pick in the top 5, a QB might be the better choice long term.
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