Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:04 pm

this thread is basically about whether you feel Jay Gruden is a good HC - IMO he's about as good as we could get at the time he started here

hopefully, in 2019, we get a new GM who is put in charge of taking this franchise in a new direction
Dan Snyder needs to bring in a new GM and let him a hire a new HC and put together a FO - there is presently no accountability for anyone not doing their job effectively - we need to get rid of the losing culture ... and fire Bruce Allen

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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby riggofan » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:45 am

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:
riggofan wrote:I'm rarely a "blame the coach" guy, and I agree with some of your comments B&G. But Jay deserves his share of blame for that garbage as much as the rest of them.


You can name any coach you like and he wouldn't have gotten a win out of the team we witnessed. 1980's Joe Gibbs doesn't get that team to win that game.


Well that implies that the players weren't good enough to win that game or at least be competitive in that game. I don't agree with that at all. Coming off a bye week, the team had two weeks to prepare, time to rest up and get guys healthy. I like Gruden and want him to succeed, but I don't think you can objectively argue that his team looked prepared to play Monday night. Whether that was mentally prepared, a good game plan or whatever.

I'd also say that it wasn't just Gruden. The o-line wasn't good. Secondary was horrible. LBs were awful. There's blame to go around for all of those coaches and players.

I'm definitely not blaming the coaches, but you have to hold EVERYONE accountable when the team looks as bad as they did this week.

Everybody loses games in the NFL. If you want to answer the question of whether Gruden is a good coach or not, let's see how the team responds and plays this Sunday.
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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby DEHog » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:56 am

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:
oj wrote:
Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:Yea, Jay Gruden was the idiot who committed multiple defensive penalties on 3rd downs when the defense had New Orleans stopped. Gruden was the one who let a receiver run right by him for 52 yards although I could have sworn the jersey said "Nicholson." Gruden was the one who let a defensive tackle go between him and the center while the two of them stared at each other confused about whose blocking assignment was missed. If the defense doesn't do several stupid things we're never down and out by half-time. But blame Gruden. It's all his fault. :roll: I guess it's not his "fault" we beat a Green Bay team we had no business beating.[/quote

When these players make those kinds of mistakes it is bad coaching.


Yea, if only Gruden had told them not to get unsportsmanlike conduct penalties.

It’s not whether or not he told them, its does he hold them accountable? There seems to be a lack of this under Gruden??
My biggest issue with the Skins coaching is that it (I freely admit I haven’t researched this) seems like the play of most of the players we bring in declines here. While we see the play of players who leave improve….that is coaching!
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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby Burgundy&GoldForever » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:23 am

riggofan wrote:
Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:
riggofan wrote:I'm rarely a "blame the coach" guy, and I agree with some of your comments B&G. But Jay deserves his share of blame for that garbage as much as the rest of them.


You can name any coach you like and he wouldn't have gotten a win out of the team we witnessed. 1980's Joe Gibbs doesn't get that team to win that game.


Well that implies that the players weren't good enough to win that game or at least be competitive in that game. I don't agree with that at all. Coming off a bye week, the team had two weeks to prepare, time to rest up and get guys healthy. I like Gruden and want him to succeed, but I don't think you can objectively argue that his team looked prepared to play Monday night. Whether that was mentally prepared, a good game plan or whatever.

I'd also say that it wasn't just Gruden. The o-line wasn't good. Secondary was horrible. LBs were awful. There's blame to go around for all of those coaches and players.

I'm definitely not blaming the coaches, but you have to hold EVERYONE accountable when the team looks as bad as they did this week.

Everybody loses games in the NFL. If you want to answer the question of whether Gruden is a good coach or not, let's see how the team responds and plays this Sunday.


We all know the problem begins with the owner refusing to remove the useless general manager. It looks like he's trying to "reassign" Bruce Allen to director of stadium nonsense instead of firing him but that would be good enough if he stays out of the football personnel aspect. A real GM would be holding everyone accountable. I'd guess Bruce Allen hasn't done or said a mother loving thing. The habit of letting things slide until they are out of control is an organizational failure from the top down. Gruden is a pushover because Allen is a pushover because Snyder is a pushover if your name is "Allen", although George would be completely embarrassed by and disown both of his sons, but that is another story. Nevertheless, Gruden isn't missing tackles or blowing blocking and coverage assignments. His gameplan was either completely disrupted by being down so quickly or it was just hot garbage. Probably both.
"I coached in Washington - and in Washington, you lose the ballgame, it's a bad Monday, I just want to tell you that." - Joe Gibbs

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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby riggofan » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:26 am

DEHog wrote:It’s not whether or not he told them, its does he hold them accountable? There seems to be a lack of this under Gruden??


You mean the guy who benched Josh Norman?
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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby Burgundy&GoldForever » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:28 am

DEHog wrote:It’s not whether or not he told them, its does he hold them accountable? There seems to be a lack of this under Gruden??
My biggest issue with the Skins coaching is that it (I freely admit I haven’t researched this) seems like the play of most of the players we bring in declines here. While we see the play of players who leave improve….that is coaching!


Snyder permanently damaged the ability of this franchise to hire a qualified, experienced head coach. He fired Schottenheimer for no good reason. He interfered with Shanahan for no good reason. The only coach he left alone was Gibbs. Gibbs is 80 and he's not walking through that door. If I'm a veteran player I'm not listening to Jay Gruden. He hasn't earned
any level of respect. So, even if he attempts to hold players accountable they're probably blowing him off. They know they'll have NFL jobs longer than he will.
"I coached in Washington - and in Washington, you lose the ballgame, it's a bad Monday, I just want to tell you that." - Joe Gibbs

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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby riggofan » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:29 am

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:Nevertheless, Gruden isn't missing tackles or blowing blocking and coverage assignments.


Of course not. Completely agree.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:His gameplan was either completely disrupted by being down so quickly or it was just hot garbage. Probably both.


Yeah I thought we were just too conservative early. I read something the other day that complained Gruden was "coaching scared" and that kind of seemed on point to me. You knew it was a big night for the Saints, and they have the ability to be explosive with Brees. We really needed to get aggressive early, don't think we were at all.
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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby Burgundy&GoldForever » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:34 am

riggofan wrote:Yeah I thought we were just too conservative early. I read something the other day that complained Gruden was "coaching scared" and that kind of seemed on point to me. You knew it was a big night for the Saints, and they have the ability to be explosive with Brees. We really needed to get aggressive early, don't think we were at all.


If you're getting burned on 4WR sets running vertical routes then answer is to get to Brees before he has time to take a seven step drop and throw a vertical pass. The team never adjusted defensively. New Orleans running game was not going to rack up 40+ points. That is absolutely on the coaching staff. Peterson is always a big play threat so I wouldn't have abandoned the running game. I would, however, have abandoned those screen passes Alex Smith was throwing that were getting the backs and receivers injured. Gruden has no Plan B. That makes for bad coaching.
"I coached in Washington - and in Washington, you lose the ballgame, it's a bad Monday, I just want to tell you that." - Joe Gibbs

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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby DEHog » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:38 pm

riggofan wrote:
DEHog wrote:It’s not whether or not he told them, its does he hold them accountable? There seems to be a lack of this under Gruden??


You mean the guy who benched Josh Norman?

Yep...that's a start...lets see how Norman responds this week!
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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby DEHog » Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:39 pm

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:
DEHog wrote:It’s not whether or not he told them, its does he hold them accountable? There seems to be a lack of this under Gruden??
My biggest issue with the Skins coaching is that it (I freely admit I haven’t researched this) seems like the play of most of the players we bring in declines here. While we see the play of players who leave improve….that is coaching!


Snyder permanently damaged the ability of this franchise to hire a qualified, experienced head coach. He fired Schottenheimer for no good reason. He interfered with Shanahan for no good reason. The only coach he left alone was Gibbs. Gibbs is 80 and he's not walking through that door. If I'm a veteran player I'm not listening to Jay Gruden. He hasn't earned
any level of respect. So, even if he attempts to hold players accountable they're probably blowing him off. They know they'll have NFL jobs longer than he will.

Agreed, I think any attempt of having a chance for a decent coach here, starts with a GM that been given full power.
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp

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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby SkinsJock » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:43 pm

=D> thanks
Dan Snyder needs to bring in a new GM and let him a hire a new HC and put together a FO - there is presently no accountability for anyone not doing their job effectively - we need to get rid of the losing culture ... and fire Bruce Allen

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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby Mississippi Hog » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:49 pm

So... I was at the game. I hate it came against us, but it was impressive to see history made. That said, we were awful. Couldn’t block for anything. Couldn’t cover. Couldn’t tackle. Doctson is a BUM!!! On the other side, penalties were a joke! Every time we seemed to get revved up offensively or defensively, they would throw a flag. Some deserved (Nicholson after a BIG sack). Some not. It was obvious the league wanted Drew to break the record there. They need to just put flags on the pretty boy qbs and let that be the way to tackle them. On a side note, it was an extremely hospitable environment for an away fan. Everyone was super nice. It was my son’s first pro game to attend and we had a blast, despite the loss. Extremely friendly place!! Friendlier to visitors than Fed Ex is lol.

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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby riggofan » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:35 am

DEHog wrote:Agreed, I think any attempt of having a chance for a decent coach here, starts with a GM that been given full power.


I'm afraid at some point this season I'm going to start actively cheering for Kirk Cousins and the Vikings to get to the Super Bowl and win it all. I kind of think there is no way Bruce Allen could survive that.
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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby Burgundy&GoldForever » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:03 am

riggofan wrote:
DEHog wrote:Agreed, I think any attempt of having a chance for a decent coach here, starts with a GM that been given full power.


I'm afraid at some point this season I'm going to start actively cheering for Kirk Cousins and the Vikings to get to the Super Bowl and win it all. I kind of think there is no way Bruce Allen could survive that.


If Cousins were the last QB in the history of the NFL I wouldn't root for him. He's a self-absorbed douchebag. Then again so is Bruce Allen.
"I coached in Washington - and in Washington, you lose the ballgame, it's a bad Monday, I just want to tell you that." - Joe Gibbs

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Re: Jay Gruden = Not a head coach

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:26 pm

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:
riggofan wrote:
DEHog wrote:Agreed, I think any attempt of having a chance for a decent coach here, starts with a GM that been given full power.
I'm afraid at some point this season I'm going to start actively cheering for Kirk Cousins and the Vikings to get to the Super Bowl and win it all. I kind of think there is no way Bruce Allen could survive that.
If Cousins were the last QB in the history of the NFL I wouldn't root for him. He's a self-absorbed douchebag. Then again so is Bruce Allen.

I totally endorse what B&GF posted ... besides, Dan Snyder has proven that he rarely, if ever, makes good decisions regarding this franchise
Dan Snyder needs to bring in a new GM and let him a hire a new HC and put together a FO - there is presently no accountability for anyone not doing their job effectively - we need to get rid of the losing culture ... and fire Bruce Allen

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