our current RB's

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our current RB's

Postby hailskins666 » Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:02 pm

i gotta bring up a couple points on this. after watching some of this past seasons games again, i noticed a few things about the backs. first off they didn't get a fair shake. in most situations, when they sustained injury, i think a lot of it was due to the offensive(literally) strategy. when you try to set up the run with the pass, you have to have an effective passing game to keep the defense on their heels....... which we never did. on most running plays the backs got hit by guys who were blitzing. defenses never feared the passing game and played tight to the line of scrimmage. and there were usually 8 in the box.(mainly cause half the guys that lined up there were on a blitz) when a guy gets hit in a "defensless" position, they are likely to get hurt. if you get hit "scared" it's gonna hurt, but if you're moving foward, and actually delievering some punishment yourself, you just kinda bounce back up, and are less likely to take an open shot. our guys never had the chance to positively move foward, we were always on our heels as an offense..... in most cases, in a defensless position. the line never had the chance to run block, and never developed into a unit until very late in the season. point being, the backs were never put into a position to succeed. it seems all the drop offs and quick toss' never seemed to go in the right direction. rb's were basically sitting ducks. when the line finally got enough runnig plays to develop that "oneness", all the rb's were banged up or out. broken arms and high ankle sprains aren't something that you "shake off" and put in the back of your mind, they take TIME to heal. so, the "fragile" reputation they have may be a little deceiving. i truly don't think we have any idea what the backs could do given the right situation. we may not be in as bad a situation here as is being portrayed by the "experts".... My 2 cents
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our current RBs

Postby hoof-n-tusk » Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:23 pm

I agree totally , Ive seen this coaching staff work wonders with far less talent across the boards.I also at a few brief moment this season saw some flickers of what these backs could be.Dont get me wrong they arent what I would call Ideal but with Buges runnin the OL I think they could be adequate for this season until we can get a little more room with the cap.BUT I will say this Im a Hokie fan and would love to see Kevin Jones in the B&G behind that line but if for some reason that cant happen Ill settle for what we have NO PROBLEM.Other than Jones im not too crazy about the running back class in the draft for this season and I dont see any FA's out there Id consider a better alternative to what we have when you consider the money it would take to get a Dillon or the like and that may be a bit of a problem child to inherit
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Postby Jake » Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:30 pm

And why are you not one of our scouts??? :D Damn good analysis. =D> I think Ladell and Kenny Watson would have been a great combo in the backfield. I am pretty eager to see how our RB situation will appear in the offseason and in Training Camp. I heard from a source (redskins56)(yes, a 16 year old has sources, too) that John Simon plans on coming to camp unless an unbeliveably attractive offer comes his way, which probably won't. He did good on ST and on running situations.
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Postby Justice Hog » Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:40 pm

To be honest, I can't wait to see what Gibbs does with Ladell Betts. I think he will be our RB of the future. As for Trung Canidate, I'm not sure how he's gonna fit into the Gibbs system. Time will tell, I suppose.
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Postby hailskins666 » Sat Jan 17, 2004 11:44 pm

And why are you not one of our scouts???
good question jake. maybe you can put a plug in for me next time you meet someone of importance in the organization... :lol:
but, really, i have liked what i've seen of betts, and even trung. they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.(which mostly wasn't their fault) a lot of "experts" and i use that term LOOSELY, are nothing more than a lame reporter being paid to cause a stir. if you watch betts run, watch his eyes, and how he immediatley shoots for the first open hole he sees.(most of these shots are replays, where you see a differnt camera angle that get a shot of the players face....... damn i wish i could get coaching film) thats an instinct that can't really be taught to a player. both trung and betts were both used exactly opposite their strengths, i know you've probably heard that a thousand times, but its true. betts is a downhill guy, with a little shiftiness to add into the equation. for some reason, he always got the outside the tackle action. trung is a straight up speed runner, but everytime he touched the ball, it was up the middle, or straight into the arms of a speedy blitzer. ramsey would audible out of plays to keep himself from being steam rolled, but that just put the backs in a bad position. the "hot routes" if you even want to call them that, were absolutely horrible in the fun n gun. the idea of reading long to short with the speed of the NFL is completely assanine. none of the team was put in a position to win. and it just kills me that every person on the planet could see the problems, but the only guys that could fix them(coaches) were either too blind or too overwhelmed to see it. but, ahhh, how things have changed. there will be no more pass to run situations. if need be, there will be a double tight end set to accompany betts across the line of scrimmage into first down territory. the "hot routes" will actually be able to put ramsey in the situation to get rid of the ball, and still get a decent gain out of a sticky situation. teams will think twice before trying to blitz. the more i watch sos' offense the more "college" it looks. anyone who only got 800 yds out of stephen davis in the prime of his career, obviously didn't have a freaking clue as to what was going on. i still haven't given up on our RB situation. the guys we have are just as good or better than any of the free agents out there. while i have made comments on change, thats just not reality, gibbs won't bring in a "problem child"(btw, good name for it hoof) just for a quick fix. if we don't pick up a good back in the draft, look for us to field our RB by committee next year. and i for one don't have a problem with that. the only knocks i have on betts or canidate, is their blocking game. they need to step up and do what needs to be done here. hell i could block better than they did in some situations this past season. but here again, i don't think a single guy on the offense had a clue about who was supposed to pick up who in the f n g offense. if we fix our problems with run DEFENSE, controlling the clock won't be a problem with our RB personnel. this team did nothing but shoot itself in the foot all year.....even in the games we won......
sorry for the obnoxious rant, i just get disgusted watching this past years games over again.
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Postby BossHog » Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:01 am

We're talking about a guy (betts) who pussied out and didn't play all year because of a cracked bone in his forearm... AND WHEN HE HAD EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW HE WAS THE GUY.

Betts showed me his colors last year... you have guys like Coles and p-Ram playing their hearts out on broken feet -- but Wadell had a widdle boo boo on his wing.

I don't think he's a solution.

I think Canidate had more serious injuries, but what difference does it make what the injuries are -- he was oft injured too, we need a back that can carry a load, and i don't think either of those guys can fit that bill. Though truthfully, I wish they were...

I'm not really that enamored with many of the FAs either. I like Staley myself, but I don't think he's durable enough... Dillon's obviously a great fit in every way except attitude and cap hit.

But there will be some cap casualties through the offseason that might shake someone loose -- Eddie George isn't a perfect fit, but he may be a decent stop gap for a season.
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Postby Justice Hog » Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:30 am

The big boss-dude writes:
Betts showed me his colors last year... you have guys like Coles and p-Ram playing their hearts out on broken feet -- but Wadell had a widdle boo boo on his wing.


Excellent points, Mark. I didn't know Betts' injuries were so freakin' minor. If that's the case, then I agree with you 100%.
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Postby hailskins666 » Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:32 am

bahhhh, good post boss.
if we fix our problems with run DEFENSE, controlling the clock won't be a problem with our RB personnel.
but, i'm just watchin the games i got on tape this past year. #-o if we get this defensive line fixed, and can get the LB's to stay in place, and as a unit stop the freakin run, i don't think the D will loose too many games for us. and while we may not already have our "solution" in the backfield, with a good defense, i don't think we'll have a lot of problems with short yardage and clock management. it's better to use who's under contract than to get a re-tread free agent to use up more cap space in the future. i just don't think there's a single FA RB out there that would serve a legitimate purpose on this team. if we don't get jones from VT, then i don't see much of a point in using a high draft pick on a "what if". (i think roanoke pointed out denver is the only team that has any luck with those types :lol: )
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Postby noshirtforyou » Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:35 am

BossHog wrote: but Wadell had a widdle boo boo on his wing.


ROTFALMAO

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Postby hailskins666 » Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:48 am

noshirtforyou wrote:
BossHog wrote: but Wadell had a widdle boo boo on his wing.


ROTFALMAO
have you ever tried holding on to a football with guys trying to punch it out of your arms? now try that with a broken bone in one of those arms. betts may have done the team a favor by staying off the field in this particular situation. if you have a broken bone in your forearm, your wrist WILL NOT rotate properly, leaving any and all your strength in your fingers alone. fumbles are not allowed in this league, and a broken wrist is just an accident waiting too happen. while betts "may" have been able to contribute, none of us will know for sure what the situation really was.
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Postby BossHog » Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:57 am

But it's still not really relative to my point... we need a durable back. You watched Eddie George drop his separated shoulder and take on Ray Lewis right... think that was good for 'holding on to the ball.'

Some guys just have what it takes to be out there more often than not... I just don't think Wadell and Trung are that type of player.

I actually thought Betts played really well when he played.
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Postby hailskins666 » Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:05 am

But it's still not really relative to my point... we need a durable back. You watched Eddie George drop his separated shoulder and take on Ray Lewis right... think that was good for 'holding on to the ball.'
was a real act of courage. was more impressed with eddie stepping up then, than any other point in his career.
Some guys just have what it takes to be out there more often than not... I just don't think Wadell and Trung are that type of player.
like i said earlier, it's a different game when your are the one out there responsible for holding that ball, especially if you're put in a bad situation nearly everytime the ball comes your way. if you are constantly put in a situation where you doubt the scheme, deep down, it's hard to convince yourself that you should play less than 100% within that scheme. if you were taking a beating before, you are in an even worse position than if you were healthy to fumble.
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Postby skinsfaninroanoke » Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:22 am

I still say that Trung, Ladell, Rock, Chad, Simon and McCullough should be given a chance in a pro scheme with pro blocking versus pro defensive players. We played a freaking college scheme against fast, hard hitting players who had good coordinators that prepared when Spurrier didn't.

I think Gibbs keeps what we have, solidify the OL, rebuild the DL, get a TE or two, and maybe bring in a few blue collar upgrades other than that... and we have a damn good team.
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Postby Redskins4Life » Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:17 pm

My thoughts are simple.... Our runningbacks suck. Trung might be good as a 3rd down back, and Ladell looks like he might be a solid backup, but none of our RB's are fit to carry the ball 15-20 times a game. Were gonna need to get a big time RB before we even come close to sniffing the air at the Super Bowl.

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Postby jerseyskin » Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:08 pm

Gibbs had a rb just like Trung.....remember Joe Washington? Remember Kelvin Bryant? Ok lets forget Kelvin (drop the easy passes) Bryant. Betts is alot like Byner and T. Allen but we will see in camp what Joe and Breux think of them.

What about trading down with a New England and picking up their two first round picks? I only hope there is another Saints GM out there willing to trade their whole draft to move up to #5. Lightning may strike twice.

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