Gano Cut - Cundiff Signed/Cut - Kai Forbath Signed

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Postby Red_One43 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:42 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:He has no up side.

He's better than Gano at kicking touchbacks. Back in 2010, Cundiff hit 89.7% of FG's wheras Gano hit only 68.6% (both attempted FG's in all 16 games). And last year Cundiff hit 75.7% to Gano's 75.6%. Who's to say Cundiff can't come out this year and repeat his 2010 season (he went to the Pro Bowl that year)? All in all I think this was actually an upgrade.


I believe that Shanny has determined that Gano doesn't have the mental, so he will always be inonsistent. Cundif had the mental and thus the potential to regain his 2010 season form.

Its a gamble and he will hear from the fans like he did if Cundif continues to miss the long FGs.

As a fan, I would like to see the Buc tryout kicker get a chance, but he is not a good touchback kicker, so I get why he won't be a candidate once he is cut by TB.

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Postby The Hogster » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:31 pm

SkinsJock wrote:The Redskins kicker this year will THANKFULLY not be Gano and will give the team a better FG kicker than we've had for a while :D

AND

THIS FO is not listening to ANY input from guys that don't have a clue :twisted:

I'm OK with their decisions on who can help this team this season



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Postby DarthMonk » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:46 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:He has no up side.


He's better than Gano at kicking touchbacks.


That is statistically true but I know Danny Smith asked for pylon kicks which has an effect. I saw Cundiff hit the cross-bar on a KO. I've certainly seen Gano send it through. I'm sure Cundiff has done that plenty too. I'd say if neither were asked to kick near pylons they'd be about equal here. On the kicks that were actually returned Gano beats Cundiff by 8.4 yards per return. Combined with the average length of their KOs (which includes intentionally not going for touchbacks sometimes and therefore kicking a few out-of-bounds = 40 yard line) Gano puts the opponent in worse field position than Cundiff by 4.8 yards per kickoff.

This is probably a big reason why we actually tied the Ravens last year (for 2nd in the league) for average starting field position given to the opponent. (Punting stats were almost identical even though Ravens had 9 touchbacks and we only had 1 so that's not it.)

Red_One43 wrote:Back in 2010, Cundiff hit 89.7% of FG's wheras Gano hit only 68.6% (both attempted FG's in all 16 games). And last year Cundiff hit 75.7% to Gano's 75.6%. Who's to say Cundiff can't come out this year and repeat his 2010 season (he went to the Pro Bowl that year)? All in all I think this was actually an upgrade.


Avoiding dead horse. Tihs is really close. We'll never know unless Cundiff is unreal or if Gano latches on somewhere. See COACH/GM comment below.

This --->

Red_One43 wrote:I believe that Shanny has determined that Gano doesn't have the mental, so he will always be inonsistent. Cundif had the mental and thus the potential to regain his 2010 season form.

Its a gamble and he will hear from the fans like he did if Cundif continues to miss the long FGs.

As a fan, I would like to see the Buc tryout kicker get a chance, but he is not a good touchback kicker, so I get why he won't be a candidate once he is cut by TB.


fits this --->

I'm starting to process this as a personnel decision made by COACH Shanahan (who will always think we are closer to being good and who therefore values improving imnediate short-term percentages at this time over future upside) over GENERAL MANAGER Shanahan who (sees where we are as a team and might value future upside over improving imnediate short-term percentages at this time).

If the duties of GM and Coach were truly separated then Shanny would simply coach what he was given. I think that would be better for the locker room if were seen soley as a leader as opposed to a leader who is part businessman.

I could be wrong.

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Postby Red_One43 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:56 pm

DarthMonk wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:He has no up side.


He's better than Gano at kicking touchbacks.


That is statistically true but I know Danny Smith asked for pylon kicks which has an effect. I saw Cundiff hit the cross-bar on a KO. I've certainly seen Gano send it through. I'm sure Cundiff has done that plenty too. I'd say if neither were asked to kick near pylons they'd be about equal here. On the kicks that were actually returned Gano beats Cundiff by 8.4 yards per return. Combined with the average length of their KOs (which includes intentionally not going for touchbacks sometimes and therefore kicking a few out-of-bounds = 40 yard line) Gano puts the opponent in worse field position than Cundiff by 4.8 yards per kickoff.

This is probably a big reason why we actually tied the Ravens last year (for 2nd in the league) for average starting field position given to the opponent. (Punting stats were almost identical even though Ravens had 9 touchbacks and we only had 1 so that's not it.)

Red_One43 wrote:Back in 2010, Cundiff hit 89.7% of FG's wheras Gano hit only 68.6% (both attempted FG's in all 16 games). And last year Cundiff hit 75.7% to Gano's 75.6%. Who's to say Cundiff can't come out this year and repeat his 2010 season (he went to the Pro Bowl that year)? All in all I think this was actually an upgrade.


Avoiding dead horse. Tihs is really close. We'll never know unless Cundiff is unreal or if Gano latches on somewhere. See COACH/GM comment below.

This --->

Red_One43 wrote:I believe that Shanny has determined that Gano doesn't have the mental, so he will always be inonsistent. Cundif had the mental and thus the potential to regain his 2010 season form.

Its a gamble and he will hear from the fans like he did if Cundif continues to miss the long FGs.

As a fan, I would like to see the Buc tryout kicker get a chance, but he is not a good touchback kicker, so I get why he won't be a candidate once he is cut by TB.


fits this --->

I'm starting to process this as a personnel decision made by COACH Shanahan (who will always think we are closer to being good and who therefore values improving imnediate short-term percentages at this time over future upside) over GENERAL MANAGER Shanahan who (sees where we are as a team and might value future upside over improving imnediate short-term percentages at this time).

If the duties of GM and Coach were truly separated then Shanny would simply coach what he was given. I think that would be better for the locker room if were seen soley as a leader as opposed to a leader who is part businessman.

I could be wrong.

Note to Hogman: I don't think we need to hire Dr. Phil.

Not whining at all. Just analyzing.


Darth, you have the wrong guy quoted for the stats comparing Gano and Cundif. Those belong to Stormin. :)

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Postby Red_One43 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:31 pm

Touchbacks the Objective

Over the past two seasons, Redskins kicker Billy Cundiff has prevented opposing teams from returning kickoffs a league-leading 84 times by booting the ball through the end zone for a touchback.

On Saturday, Coach Mike Shanahan hinted that putting opposing teams at the 20-yard line will be the Redskins’ objective this season, rather than employing a directional kicking strategy and gambling that his stand out kick coverage unit can stop the returner short of the 20. (Last season, the Redskins’ kick coverage team limited opponents to 20.8 yards per return, the second best mark in the league.)

“Any time you can kick touchbacks, you let him kick touchbacks,” Shanahan said of Cundiff on Saturday. “The 20-yard line to start isn’t great field position, so if you can get that done, that would be a good goal.”

In Wednesday’s 30-3 preseason victory over Tampa Bay, Cundiff forced touchbacks on five of six kickoffs in his debut for the Redskins. Last season in Baltimore, Cundiff set an NFL record for most touchbacks in a season with 44.

“What you always do is look at your personnel,” Shanahan said, asked if the team has changed philosophies on kickoffs. “So, when you say philosophy, it all depends – offense, defense or special teams – what your guys can do best
Last edited by Red_One43 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby riggofan » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:15 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:He has no up side.

He's better than Gano at kicking touchbacks. Back in 2010, Cundiff hit 89.7% of FG's wheras Gano hit only 68.6% (both attempted FG's in all 16 games). And last year Cundiff hit 75.7% to Gano's 75.6%. Who's to say Cundiff can't come out this year and repeat his 2010 season (he went to the Pro Bowl that year)? All in all I think this was actually an upgrade.


I believe that Shanny has determined that Gano doesn't have the mental, so he will always be inonsistent. Cundif had the mental and thus the potential to regain his 2010 season form.


Yeah maybe. I kinda think Shanny was thinking he couldn't afford to wait on Gano any longer. No doubt Gano has a lot of upside, but not sure Shanahan year 3 is in a position to continue with the growing pains.

Cundiff might not be spectacular, but I personally expect he'll be more consistent than Gano was last year.

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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:16 pm

Gano sucks. No idea about Cundiff.
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Postby Red_One43 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:19 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:Gano sucks. No idea about Cundiff.


1. Cundif is very accurate within the 40 and he has been the best over the last two years in touchbacks.

2. Where Gano clearly had him beat is the 50 yd FGs.
Last year, Gano - 4 of 6 with the 58 yarder
Cundif - 1 of 6

3. 2010:

Gano - 0 of 3
Cundif - 0 of 1

3. Last year, from the 40-49, they are close with a slight edge to Cundif

4. Last year, Cundif made 14 of 15 FGs in the 4th quarter. I assume that his one miss was one of those 50 yarders he missed.

From the preseason game against TB, in my opinion, Cundif, just looks more confident that Gano. Even when Cundif missed that 46 yarder, he kept his composure with even with all the booing.

This guy looked awesome for TB, but he doesn't kick deep on kick offs - Is that the prority these days? Sounds like it is for the Skins.

Kai Forbath, K: With Connor Barth receiving a new contract, there was little chance the UCLA rookie would make the squad. The rookie, however, will likely find a job, since he nailed all 5 exhibition FG attempts, including a 55 yarder.

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Postby DarthMonk » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:56 pm

Red_One43 wrote:Touchbacks the Objective

Over the past two seasons, Redskins kicker Billy Cundiff has prevented opposing teams from returning kickoffs a league-leading 84 times by booting the ball through the end zone for a touchback.

On Saturday, Coach Mike Shanahan hinted that putting opposing teams at the 20-yard line will be the Redskins’ objective this season, rather than employing a directional kicking strategy and gambling that his stand out kick coverage unit can stop the returner short of the 20. (Last season, the Redskins’ kick coverage team limited opponents to 20.8 yards per return, the second best mark in the league.)

“Any time you can kick touchbacks, you let him kick touchbacks,” Shanahan said of Cundiff on Saturday. “The 20-yard line to start isn’t great field position, so if you can get that done, that would be a good goal.”

In Wednesday’s 30-3 preseason victory over Tampa Bay, Cundiff forced touchbacks on five of six kickoffs in his debut for the Redskins. Last season in Baltimore, Cundiff set an NFL record for most touchbacks in a season with 44.

“What you always do is look at your personnel,” Shanahan said, asked if the team has changed philosophies on kickoffs. “So, when you say philosophy, it all depends – offense, defense or special teams – what your guys can do best


Excellent. I'm on-board with that.

Thanks!

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Postby SkinsJock » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:58 pm

I could care less what a kicker did last year ...

OR

whatever becomes of Gano - actually I hope he improves, he needs to :wink:



we need players that will help this team this year

I'm happy we have Cundiff instead of Gano


in the end it's what you can do this year that's most important - NOT what you did last year :D
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RG3 will benefit from having a full off season to prepare and a better 'fit' at both HC and OC

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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:35 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Gano sucks. No idea about Cundiff.


1. Cundif is very accurate within the 40 and he has been the best over the last two years in touchbacks.

2. Where Gano clearly had him beat is the 50 yd FGs.
Last year, Gano - 4 of 6 with the 58 yarder
Cundif - 1 of 6

3. 2010:

Gano - 0 of 3
Cundif - 0 of 1

3. Last year, from the 40-49, they are close with a slight edge to Cundif

4. Last year, Cundif made 14 of 15 FGs in the 4th quarter. I assume that his one miss was one of those 50 yarders he missed.

From the preseason game against TB, in my opinion, Cundif, just looks more confident that Gano. Even when Cundif missed that 46 yarder, he kept his composure with even with all the booing


Thanks for the analysis. Wow, that's what I like to hear. I realize Gano's "stats" were decent, but the guy had something wrong between his ears. You gotta make the field goals with the game on the line, and Gano couldn't.
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Postby SkinsJock » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:14 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Gano sucks. No idea about Cundiff.


1. Cundif is very accurate within the 40 and he has been the best over the last two years in touchbacks.

2. Where Gano clearly had him beat is the 50 yd FGs.
Last year, Gano - 4 of 6 with the 58 yarder
Cundif - 1 of 6

3. 2010:

Gano - 0 of 3
Cundif - 0 of 1

3. Last year, from the 40-49, they are close with a slight edge to Cundif

4. Last year, Cundif made 14 of 15 FGs in the 4th quarter. I assume that his one miss was one of those 50 yarders he missed.

From the preseason game against TB, in my opinion, Cundif, just looks more confident that Gano. Even when Cundif missed that 46 yarder, he kept his composure with even with all the booing


Thanks for the analysis. Wow, that's what I like to hear.

I realize Gano's "stats" were decent, but the guy had something wrong between his ears.
You gotta make the field goals with the game on the line, and Gano couldn't
.


BINGO - go to the front of the class and take your bag with you - you could be there a while :D

that sums that up nicely, don't ya think

gotta love it :lol:
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

RG3 will benefit from having a full off season to prepare and a better 'fit' at both HC and OC

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Postby Red_One43 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:03 am

How do you put a positive spin on this?
His 89.7-percent conversion rate in 2010 is book-ended by marks of 78.3 and 75.7. (Interestingly, the 32-year-old ranked one spot ahead of Graham Gano, the kicker he replaced, in field goal percentage last season.) Cundiff’s strength is kickoffs. Last season he sent an NFL record 44 kicks into the end zone for touchbacks. His weakness is long field goals. Since 2003, in fact, he’s made only two of his 13 attempts from 50-plus yards. If Cundiff connects on field goals at 80-85 percent, which would put him between 11-20, and consistently boots kickoffs through the end zone, then he will be an upgrade.


I am really trying to get on board with this kicker choice, but I didn't know that Cundif was career 76% kicker (Rackers 80%. Gano 73%)
Cundif makes 2 of 13 from 50 yds?! OK, I am going to try to spin this one.

1. During the preseason Gano never got to kick a field goal - one of the reasons is RGIII and Co. - we are scoring TDs now. Won't be attemping very many FGs.

2. Cundif will be forcing the opponents to start from the 20 on almost every drive. Our Defense will help greatly reduce the number of points that it gave up last year. It alos helps that he D is on the third year of the 3-4 with true 3-4 personnel.

3. The probablity of Cundif suddenly becoming a good 50 yard FG kicker is very low, but he made he made 26 of 30 from 20-49 yards plus there was that 14 out of 15 in the 4th quarter.

4. With no deep threat at FG kicker, Shanny will opt to send in Rocca, one of the best at penning teams inside their 20. Now we have a kicker combo that will keep opponents starting position averaging in the low 20's.

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Postby riggofan » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:38 am

At some point this season, Cundiff is going to miss a kick and people will start complaining that Gano was cut. Let's just remember that Cundiff was rock solid against the Saints yesterday. Kickoffs were awesome. He was 4-4, and we needed every one of those to get the win.

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Postby andyjens89 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:46 am

And the touchbacks! Sproles was getting really frustrated!
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