Time for this Shanahan experiment to be ended.

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Postby DarthMonk » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:06 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach


What a stupid post. The comparison ignoring their their objectives of their first teams here and what they inherited is just complete fail.


No the stupidity is the inability to understand that Shanahan is and has been over-rated. If you look at records it would appear the team Shanahan inherited was better than the players he has brought in. 3 years in and the defense is worse then what it was when he came. The only thing we can show as progress is RG3 and Alfred Morris and with the bush league calls Kyle calls RG3 will have brain damage before this year is over and Alfred Morris will be also be ran into the ground like he did Terrell Davis.......


Then make the point with good arguments. Shannahan is trying to build a successful franchise. Comparing that after a couple years to the record of guys who were just trying to win games is a terrible argument.


He said "It's pretty sad ..." Is anyone disputing that?

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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:16 pm

DarthMonk wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach


What a stupid post. The comparison ignoring their their objectives of their first teams here and what they inherited is just complete fail.


No the stupidity is the inability to understand that Shanahan is and has been over-rated. If you look at records it would appear the team Shanahan inherited was better than the players he has brought in. 3 years in and the defense is worse then what it was when he came. The only thing we can show as progress is RG3 and Alfred Morris and with the bush league calls Kyle calls RG3 will have brain damage before this year is over and Alfred Morris will be also be ran into the ground like he did Terrell Davis.......


Then make the point with good arguments. Shannahan is trying to build a successful franchise. Comparing that after a couple years to the record of guys who were just trying to win games is a terrible argument.


He said "It's pretty sad ..." Is anyone disputing that?

DarthMonk


Yes, I'm disputing that. I want a coach to teach solid football to a team and instill a never say die attitude. He got a team that needed to be built. Comparing that to two guys who were not ready for prime time over the first two years of their administrations is what's sad. I am happy we have a good coach who's building an organization, there is nothing sad about that at all.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:17 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:Let me add to my last post. Like I said, I would give him one more year, but if Shanahan was fired, my main focus would be hiring a competent GM then worrying about the coach. I think having one person as the coach and de facto GM is a terrible idea.


I'm probably at about the same place as you. Unless things turn around substantially this year, I'd only give Shanahan one more year to produce some concrete progress in terms of wins. Four years out of his five-year contract is a good enough show of faith on the part of Snyder, and I couldn't fault him for moving on after that.

I do have a hard time imagining how bad things would have to be before I'd part ways with Shanahan after this year. Though the fact that he said the season has already switched to evaluation mode is for me a very bad sign. Very bad. (Even though he appears to be back-tracking.)

If the locker room spirals out of control from here, I think you have to consider a change this offseason, if only to cut our losses. But I don't think we'll see things get that chaotic.
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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:22 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:If the locker room spirals out of control from here, I think you have to consider a change this offseason, if only to cut our losses. But I don't think we'll see things get that chaotic.


So far, the team never quits. They believe they can win any game until it's over. It's hard to even be contemplating it as a possibility.
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Proverb: Failure is not falling down. Failure is not getting up again

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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:28 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:If the locker room spirals out of control from here, I think you have to consider a change this offseason, if only to cut our losses. But I don't think we'll see things get that chaotic.


So far, the team never quits. They believe they can win any game until it's over. It's hard to even be contemplating it as a possibility.


I'm talking about the fallout from Shanahan's statements, which some players already expressed discontent over (on the condition of anonymity). Plus, have they had the best attitude if Sunday's performance against the Panthers was their comeback from a tough Steeler's loss?

I'm not saying there is a problem, and you know I'm not one to stir the pot of negativity just for kicks. But it's not unthinkable to me, and I've watched Redskins teams that have given up on coaches before. I'm getting a similar feeling about the way things are right now.

A good coach can clamp down on it and right the ship, and I think Shanahan is a good coach. So I don't think a meltdown is likely.
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Postby SkinsJock » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:46 pm

we're about to learn a lot about this HC - OR, should I say ... there's a lot of doubters that are about to learn that Mike Shanahan is a good HC

I'd agree that he gets another year and might leave then if he does not think he's doing a good enough job

I doubt Snyder gets involved here UNLESS Mike loses the players - I seriously doubt that happens - he's better than that


After this season, I'd love to get a new DC and new OC in here but I doubt that happens either
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

RG3 will benefit from having a full off season to prepare and a better 'fit' at both HC and OC

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Postby gushogs » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:34 pm

2009 Redskins: last place in NFC East
Jan 2010, Shanny is hired.
2010, NFC East cellar
2011, NFC East cellar
Week 9 2012: NFC East cellar. Shanny starts evaluating players for the 2013 season and planning for the 2015 draft....

Don't expect things to change, if you keep doing the same things. Einstein

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Another year of asking for PATIENCE..., 20 yrs not long enough?????

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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:10 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DarthMonk wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach


What a stupid post. The comparison ignoring their their objectives of their first teams here and what they inherited is just complete fail.


No the stupidity is the inability to understand that Shanahan is and has been over-rated. If you look at records it would appear the team Shanahan inherited was better than the players he has brought in. 3 years in and the defense is worse then what it was when he came. The only thing we can show as progress is RG3 and Alfred Morris and with the bush league calls Kyle calls RG3 will have brain damage before this year is over and Alfred Morris will be also be ran into the ground like he did Terrell Davis.......


Then make the point with good arguments. Shannahan is trying to build a successful franchise. Comparing that after a couple years to the record of guys who were just trying to win games is a terrible argument.


He said "It's pretty sad ..." Is anyone disputing that?

DarthMonk


Yes, I'm disputing that. I want a coach to teach solid football to a team and instill a never say die attitude. He got a team that needed to be built. Comparing that to two guys who were not ready for prime time over the first two years of their administrations is what's sad. I am happy we have a good coach who's building an organization, there is nothing sad about that at all.


So 3 years into this rebuild and what do we have to show for it besides a QB and RB who at this rate we are going will be destroyed. Our defense is no better than what it was 3 years ago. We have brought in Shanahan type players and why are we still inept? Seems to me Mann and Green saying themselves that basics aren't being taught is a shame. Especially from a so called 2 time SB winning coach with supposed Hall of Fame credentials. Shanahan has not taught or instilled a never say die attitude. Shanahan and is son are arrogant fools one living off of past laurels and son who is living off his daddy's name. Period.

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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:11 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DarthMonk wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach


What a stupid post. The comparison ignoring their their objectives of their first teams here and what they inherited is just complete fail.


No the stupidity is the inability to understand that Shanahan is and has been over-rated. If you look at records it would appear the team Shanahan inherited was better than the players he has brought in. 3 years in and the defense is worse then what it was when he came. The only thing we can show as progress is RG3 and Alfred Morris and with the bush league calls Kyle calls RG3 will have brain damage before this year is over and Alfred Morris will be also be ran into the ground like he did Terrell Davis.......


Then make the point with good arguments. Shannahan is trying to build a successful franchise. Comparing that after a couple years to the record of guys who were just trying to win games is a terrible argument.


He said "It's pretty sad ..." Is anyone disputing that?

DarthMonk


Yes, I'm disputing that. I want a coach to teach solid football to a team and instill a never say die attitude. He got a team that needed to be built. Comparing that to two guys who were not ready for prime time over the first two years of their administrations is what's sad. I am happy we have a good coach who's building an organization, there is nothing sad about that at all.


So 3 years into this rebuild and what do we have to show for it besides a QB and RB who at this rate we are going will be destroyed. Our defense is no better than what it was 3 years ago. We have brought in Shanahan type players and why are we still inept? Seems to me Mann and Green saying themselves that basics aren't being taught is a shame. Especially from a so called 2 time SB winning coach with supposed Hall of Fame credentials. Shanahan has not taught or instilled a never say die attitude. Shanahan and his son are arrogant fools one living off of past laurels and son who is living off his daddy's name. Period.

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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:18 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DarthMonk wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach


What a stupid post. The comparison ignoring their their objectives of their first teams here and what they inherited is just complete fail.


No the stupidity is the inability to understand that Shanahan is and has been over-rated. If you look at records it would appear the team Shanahan inherited was better than the players he has brought in. 3 years in and the defense is worse then what it was when he came. The only thing we can show as progress is RG3 and Alfred Morris and with the bush league calls Kyle calls RG3 will have brain damage before this year is over and Alfred Morris will be also be ran into the ground like he did Terrell Davis.......


Then make the point with good arguments. Shannahan is trying to build a successful franchise. Comparing that after a couple years to the record of guys who were just trying to win games is a terrible argument.


He said "It's pretty sad ..." Is anyone disputing that?

DarthMonk


Yes, I'm disputing that. I want a coach to teach solid football to a team and instill a never say die attitude. He got a team that needed to be built. Comparing that to two guys who were not ready for prime time over the first two years of their administrations is what's sad. I am happy we have a good coach who's building an organization, there is nothing sad about that at all.


Well is the following isn't spot on and sad then I will have two of whatever you are drinking:

2009 Redskins: last place in NFC East SAD
Jan 2010, Shanny is hired.
2010, NFC East cellar SAD
2011, NFC East cellar SAD
Week 9 2012: NFC East cellar. Shanny starts evaluating players for the 2013 season and planning for the 2015 draft.... TERRIBLY SAD

Amazing other teams like the Saints can be jokes for years, they get the right coach and bam. Crap look at Indy everyone said the Redskins were a better team and they are 5-3 we are 3-6 SAD SAD and MORE SAD......

Based on your point of logic you must either A) be related to the Shanahan's or B no nothing of what it takes the other 31 teams that for some reason the Redskins just can't do...............

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Postby RayNAustin » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:28 pm

riggofan wrote:Yes! What we REALLY need is another coaching change. That has really worked well for us in the past.


I had a girl once ... and found out she was bad ... real bad ... she lied and cheated and stole all my money ... treated my momma badly and hated my dog. Wrecked my car, slept with the neighbor's wife, but since I had already changed girlfriends a few times before, and that didn't seem to work out ... I thought about keeping her. And then 5 seconds later, I threw her rear end out!

This is just a story I made up ... but you should get what I'm saying ... right?

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Postby CanesSkins26 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:54 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:I think having one person as the coach and de facto GM is a terrible idea.


Not sure how old you are, but a lot of people don't really remember the reality of the Gibbs/Beathard days. Beathard did the work, but every time they disagreed, JKC sided with Gibbs. It actually isn't that different than it is now. Allen's doing the work, but Shannahan's making the final calls.


That was a looong time ago. In today's NFL it's not a recipe for success. Holmgren struggled when he became coach and GM and Shanahan began having problems when he took on that roll in Denver. Sure we have Allen, but he handles more of the business side and Shanahan is responsible for personnel moves. If you look back at what Shanahan's problems were in Denver, it wasn't his coaching. It was the personnel moves that were made on the defensive side of the ball.


No highly successful organization works without one person making the final decision. Decision by committee is decision of mediocrity


And that person should be the general manager, not the head coach. There's a reason why the vast majority of NFL franchises separate the GM and head coaching functions. No team, as far as I'm aware, has won a Super Bowl having the head coach also take on the roll as general manager. What got Shanahan in trouble in Denver was thinking he could succeed with a bunch of reclamation projects on defense. Having someone in place to take these decisions away from the coach and the coach's ego is important.
Suck and Luck

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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:13 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DarthMonk wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach


What a stupid post. The comparison ignoring their their objectives of their first teams here and what they inherited is just complete fail.


No the stupidity is the inability to understand that Shanahan is and has been over-rated. If you look at records it would appear the team Shanahan inherited was better than the players he has brought in. 3 years in and the defense is worse then what it was when he came. The only thing we can show as progress is RG3 and Alfred Morris and with the bush league calls Kyle calls RG3 will have brain damage before this year is over and Alfred Morris will be also be ran into the ground like he did Terrell Davis.......


Then make the point with good arguments. Shannahan is trying to build a successful franchise. Comparing that after a couple years to the record of guys who were just trying to win games is a terrible argument.


He said "It's pretty sad ..." Is anyone disputing that?

DarthMonk


Yes, I'm disputing that. I want a coach to teach solid football to a team and instill a never say die attitude. He got a team that needed to be built. Comparing that to two guys who were not ready for prime time over the first two years of their administrations is what's sad. I am happy we have a good coach who's building an organization, there is nothing sad about that at all.


Listen to this......http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/85961 ... iving-2012 This is EXACTLY WHAT SNYDER SHOULD DO!!!!

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Postby chiefhog44 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:09 pm

DaSkinz Baby wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DarthMonk wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:It's pretty sad when Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier has a better winning percentage then this 2 time SB winning coach


What a stupid post. The comparison ignoring their their objectives of their first teams here and what they inherited is just complete fail.


No the stupidity is the inability to understand that Shanahan is and has been over-rated. If you look at records it would appear the team Shanahan inherited was better than the players he has brought in. 3 years in and the defense is worse then what it was when he came. The only thing we can show as progress is RG3 and Alfred Morris and with the bush league calls Kyle calls RG3 will have brain damage before this year is over and Alfred Morris will be also be ran into the ground like he did Terrell Davis.......


Then make the point with good arguments. Shannahan is trying to build a successful franchise. Comparing that after a couple years to the record of guys who were just trying to win games is a terrible argument.


He said "It's pretty sad ..." Is anyone disputing that?

DarthMonk


Yes, I'm disputing that. I want a coach to teach solid football to a team and instill a never say die attitude. He got a team that needed to be built. Comparing that to two guys who were not ready for prime time over the first two years of their administrations is what's sad. I am happy we have a good coach who's building an organization, there is nothing sad about that at all.


Listen to this......http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/85961 ... iving-2012 This is EXACTLY WHAT SNYDER SHOULD DO!!!!


This guy is a baffoon.
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Postby Mississippi Hog » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:22 pm

I am a little bit on the fence. Some of the decisions by the Shanaclan have been spotty. I am not 100% sure that they are as great as they have been made out to be. There is a lot of evidence both ways. I am tired of Danny Boy blowing things up all the time. But..... If he did, who would be surprised if he went after a very hot coaching commodity who just had saw his new contract voided by the league and is set to be a free agent coach after this season? Yes. I am talking about Saints head coach, Sean Payton, who is rumored to be on the radar of Jerry Jones if the Pukes continue to struggle. Who would win the bidding war? Would RG3 be enough to entice Sean to come to Washington (along with maybe 10 mil or so per year that Danny would throw at him?) Look like Loomis may be available too. Just a thought....

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