The Trouble with RG3

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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby riggofan » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:08 am

Countertrey wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:we are very fortunate to have a QB like this that we can build our offense around


I'm sorry but I can't call his play-calling stupid when the receivers are open and Robert sail the pass over their head. Roberts accuracy was off and has been off for quite a while. Not say Kyle is infallible, he's far from it. But every article, this one included is saying that the receivers are WIDE OPEN, but Robert can't find them. That's NOT Kyles fault. The plays are working as designed, Robert has to grow into being a proper drop-back QB.

Umm... Chris... Bob was pretty damned accurate last night... you sure you weren't watching a replay of the Philly game? I saw THREE passes last night that really missed the target... and one of them may have been deliberate due to good coverage and a lousy angle. Bob did fine last night... and he did fine last week.


Yeah I was kind of scratching my head about Chris' comment, had to go back and look at the box score. 24 of 37, 281 yards, 3 TDs and no interceptions?

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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:08 am

Countertrey wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:we are very fortunate to have a QB like this that we can build our offense around


I'm sorry but I can't call his play-calling stupid when the receivers are open and Robert sail the pass over their head. Roberts accuracy was off and has been off for quite a while. Not say Kyle is infallible, he's far from it. But every article, this one included is saying that the receivers are WIDE OPEN, but Robert can't find them. That's NOT Kyles fault. The plays are working as designed, Robert has to grow into being a proper drop-back QB.

Umm... Chris... Bob was pretty damned accurate last night... you sure you weren't watching a replay of the Philly game? I saw THREE passes last night that really missed the target... and one of them may have been deliberate due to good coverage and a lousy angle. Bob did fine last night... and he did fine last week.

I also think that Kyle called a very nice game last night. He (and Bob) were let down by that sieve known as the Redskins O-line.

Sorry... the only one that has any business in pass pro is Trent.



Allow me to explain my train of thought.

I'm not bothered or upset with his accuracy last night. He was pretty decent, he's improving. However, there were a few playes where he sailed a pass and that happens, no big deal. When I made that post, I was thinking of a 1st down pass in the second half. It was playaction, Rob had an open Garcon and he sailed it. Incomplete pass, they eventually go three & out. Folks look at that and say, "well, why didn't we run the ball?! Kyle sucks!". And That's where I take issue. We went thru years of predictable play calling, this kid switches it up. He'll use the run to set up the play-action pass. He'll then in turn, use the play-action to set up the run and the only way that'll come into fruition is if those passes are completed.

So, I wasn't really knocking Robert but just pointing out that the plays are open. The players are there. RGIII isn't finding them, or it's a dropped pass. It's whatever. I think, and this is just my humble opinion on the list of things wrong, play calling is far down the list.
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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby StorminMormon86 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:16 am

I agree. The players need to execute the plays called. Kyle called a good, balanced game last night. Griffin missed Garcon down at the goal line. Despite what Mayock was saying, I think Garcon would have scored if the throw was more accurate. Not saying that Griffin is to blame, but WTF happened to our offense in the 2nd half!? 20 unanswered points against a team that only had 44 players active last night. Pathetic.

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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:19 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:I agree. The players need to execute the plays called. Kyle called a good, balanced game last night. Griffin missed Garcon down at the goal line. Despite what Mayock was saying, I think Garcon would have scored if the throw was more accurate. Not saying that Griffin is to blame, but WTF happened to our offense in the 2nd half!? 20 unanswered points against a team that only had 44 players active last night. Pathetic.



Well....

- Griffin had Moss in the corner but led him out of bounds...
- Reed dropped a TD. PI or not, it touched his hands.


That's why I hate this ref blaming BS. F**k the refs. DO YOUR JOB. The ref can't UN-CATCH the ball for you. Catch it! Make the accurate pass! Take the refs out of the game. If we're relying on the ref, we've already lost.
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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby riggofan » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:27 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:Last year - "Griffin is awesome! He single handedly saved our team and our offense!"
This year - "Kyle's play calling sucks! Fire him!"

Funny how no one mentioned Kyle's play calling last year being good when we went on our 7 game win streak. But when we lose? Man oh man.


Nothing new man. Kyle is THE #1 scapegoat for every loss, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

I will admit though that my initial reaction after the game last night was that his play calling in the second half wasn't good. I've been reading a lot this morning about how our offensive line was so bad, but they seemed to be doing a great job opening up holes for Morris. I don't know why we insist on having RGIII drop back and try to pass from the pocket when that line clearly can't protect him that way. Am I wrong about that?

I don't know. Maybe they were so concerned about keeping our defense off the field, they got impatient with the play calling in the second half.

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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby Deadskins » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:53 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:That's why I hate this ref blaming BS. F**k the refs. DO YOUR JOB. The ref can't UN-CATCH the ball for you. Catch it! Make the accurate pass! Take the refs out of the game. If we're relying on the ref, we've already lost.

I agree for the most part, but when the refs are killing our drives with phantom calls, and extending theirs by not calling blatant fouls, it's an uphill battle.
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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:00 am

Deadskins wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:That's why I hate this ref blaming BS. F**k the refs. DO YOUR JOB. The ref can't UN-CATCH the ball for you. Catch it! Make the accurate pass! Take the refs out of the game. If we're relying on the ref, we've already lost.

I agree for the most part, but when the refs are killing our drives with phantom calls, and extending theirs by not calling blatant fouls, it's an uphill battle.


i feel you but we can't control that. i can only do my job and if i'm not doing that, i'm the issue first and foremost. if our players did their jobs, we'd be so far ahead that the refs would be a non-factor.
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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby StorminMormon86 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:08 am

riggofan wrote:Nothing new man. Kyle is THE #1 scapegoat for every loss, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

I will admit though that my initial reaction after the game last night was that his play calling in the second half wasn't good. I've been reading a lot this morning about how our offensive line was so bad, but they seemed to be doing a great job opening up holes for Morris. I don't know why we insist on having RGIII drop back and try to pass from the pocket when that line clearly can't protect him that way. Am I wrong about that?

I don't know. Maybe they were so concerned about keeping our defense off the field, they got impatient with the play calling in the second half.

Griffin is going to get murdered if they continue to call plays that keep having him drop back in the pocket and pass. We need more bootlegs and roll outs, throws on the run, etc.

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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby 44diesel » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:19 pm

I understand we're watching the growing pains as RGIII becomes a true pocket passer and I look forward to seeing all the success that lays ahead for Robert. I think he has the smarts and the arm to do so. That being said, what I'd love to see him do more is throw the ball away instead of taking these sacks for 8-10+ yards. We all know about the issues with the Oline and that can be helped to some degree with more roll outs and bootlegs. I also admire RGIII's desire to extend the play and let his receivers get open, but at the end of the day... get rid of the ball. This, IMO, is where passers like RGIII and Peyton Manning differ. Peyton is far from mobile. He doesn't extend plays with his legs but if there's nothing open down the field and that clock goes off in his head, he'll more often chuck the ball out of bounds and live to face another down than take a sack and lose downs AND yards (not to mention the number of fumbles that have occurred this year). Thoughts?
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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:04 pm

I don't agree that Robert is being coached or encouraged to become a pocket passing QB

I think he's being coached up by Mike & Kyle to become a more rounded QB than what we saw last season

I'm as surprised as anyone that his passing touch has not been as sharp as we saw last season
I also hope he learns to scan the field more - he seems to focus on his primary target a lot

I am looking forward to watching Robert Griffin III establish himself as the best Redskins QB …. ever
We are very fortunate to have Kirk Cousins but Griffin has a huge upside IMO

Robert needs to continue to get better and to do that he needs time on the field - hopefully sooner than later

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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby Countertrey » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:54 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:I agree. The players need to execute the plays called. Kyle called a good, balanced game last night. Griffin missed Garcon down at the goal line. Despite what Mayock was saying, I think Garcon would have scored if the throw was more accurate. Not saying that Griffin is to blame, but WTF happened to our offense in the 2nd half!? 20 unanswered points against a team that only had 44 players active last night. Pathetic.



Well....

- Griffin had Moss in the corner but led him out of bounds...
- Reed dropped a TD. PI or not, it touched his hands.


That's why I hate this ref blaming BS. F**k the refs. DO YOUR JOB. The ref can't UN-CATCH the ball for you. Catch it! Make the accurate pass! Take the refs out of the game. If we're relying on the ref, we've already lost.

If you take an HONEST look at that replay, Moss grabbed that ball with a good yard and a half of space between him and the end zone. The pass was just about perfect... right where you want a fade... It appeared to me that Moss thought he was farther from the line... therefore, made no effort to drag his back foot... beyond that, he was bobbling the ball as he went out of bounds...

You can try... but that wasn't on Bob.
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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby Countertrey » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:10 pm

SkinsJock wrote:I don't agree that Robert is being coached or encouraged to become a pocket passing QB

I think he's being coached up by Mike & Kyle to become a more rounded QB than what we saw last season

I'm as surprised as anyone that his passing touch has not been as sharp as we saw last season
I also hope he learns to scan the field more - he seems to focus on his primary target a lot

I am looking forward to watching Robert Griffin III establish himself as the best Redskins QB …. ever

I'd disagree with both of you. Bob is being coached to develop pocket passing skills... and it is a point of emphasis now, with resulting growing pains. The coaches know that this will just polish his skill set, and give him tools to use that will give him a shot at becoming a true world class quarterback...

BUT, this is NOT about making him a pocket passer... it's about making him one of the most comprehensively skilled quarterbacks ever. Imagine Bob with the physical skills of Mike Vick, the pocket skills of Drew Brees (too much?) [-o< and the arm of Mark Rypien... Who would ever stop him?

No matter what... in order to truly be an effective pocket quarterback (as he waits for the game to slow down in his mind)... he needs 1.5 more seconds from his O-line.
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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby StorminMormon86 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:43 am

He had time in the first half because of Alfred Morris disrupting the pass rush. I think Kyle wanted to catch the Vikes off guard in the 2nd half (assuming they would think we'd keep running with Morris) and started to call more pass plays, and then Griffin started to get murdered. Run with Morris = win football games.

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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby Irn-Bru » Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:38 am

RGIII's pocket presence is looking pretty good to me, and improving each week.

I'll just say this to the Jenkins and Kings of the world: don't bet against him. He's going to outwork your criticisms and come out ahead. Fair warning.
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Re: The Trouble with RG3

Postby SkinsJock » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:42 am

RG3 is going to be the best Redskins QB ever - he's not going to do that without going through a learning curve and we're seeing that …
also
the team was not helped by a combination of what we gave up to get him and the cap hit by Mara & Goodell

Robert has a HC that is recognized as a good HC for QBs and by some stroke of genius, we also have Alfred

this is year 2 of the RG3 era - we're going to see some great plays from this kid
We are very fortunate to have Kirk Cousins but Griffin has a huge upside IMO

Robert needs to continue to get better and to do that he needs time on the field - hopefully sooner than later

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