This team is being exposed in all areas

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Re: This team is being exposed in all areas

Postby DarthMonk » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:12 am

Deadskins wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
riggofan wrote:My only comment about the officiating is that I think we've definitely benefited from bad calls against our opponents as well. Would anyone disagree with that? It just seems like NFL officials have gotten more and more aggressive with their calls over the past few years. Like they're afraid to NOT make a call rather than just let the players play the game.
Nope... wouldn't dispute the occasional call that works to our advantage... but, can you seriously look at last Thursday's game, and declare that the Vikings actually committed only one penalty????

Do you consider overt "non-calls" aggressive? When the same OLB is overtly held on successive plays... when a fist full of jersey redirects a TE reaching for a ball... when a ball is advanced 2 feet on a spot repeatedly... when there are repeated calls that, on review simply can't be seen... and, when it's clearly worse when it's Guns Hoculi's crew... there's something up.

On the play right before the half, where RGIII ran it to the goal line, Greenway launched himself, helmet first, into Bob. That would have been a penalty (and probably a fine) if it had happened against any other QB (or any WR or RB for that matter) in the league, but not if he plays for the Redskins.


I generally don't like going after refs but it certainly looks like almost anything goes against our QBs.

I feel like I see 5 to 10 all-out body slams per game.

WTF???
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Re: This team is being exposed in all areas

Postby Kilmer72 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:06 pm

You know, I really have to give Kyle Shanahan kudos. Normally, he would have abandoned the run if we were behind. He didn't. We still lost. If he had passed all day the score would have been much worse. I think he sees our identity now. We finally have a niche written in stone. That took stubbornness and moxie. I have to give credit where credit is due. For those looking for his head... This is another example of Kyle doing a good job even if we lost.

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Re: This team is being exposed in all areas

Postby Countertrey » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:35 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:You know, I really have to give Kyle Shanahan kudos. Normally, he would have abandoned the run if we were behind. He didn't. We still lost. If he had passed all day the score would have been much worse. I think he sees our identity now. We finally have a niche written in stone. That took stubbornness and moxie. I have to give credit where credit is due. For those looking for his head... This is another example of Kyle doing a good job even if we lost.

ummm... sort of... but, at some point, when using an effective run game to set up play action...


you should actually run play action. Know what I mean?




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Re: This team is being exposed in all areas

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:18 am

Countertrey wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:You know, I really have to give Kyle Shanahan kudos. Normally, he would have abandoned the run if we were behind. He didn't. We still lost. If he had passed all day the score would have been much worse. I think he sees our identity now. We finally have a niche written in stone. That took stubbornness and moxie. I have to give credit where credit is due. For those looking for his head... This is another example of Kyle doing a good job even if we lost.

ummm... sort of... but, at some point, when using an effective run game to set up play action...


you should actually run play action. Know what I mean?




Did I miss your sarcasm smilie, Kilmer???



You are right about the play action. I was feeling pretty good and didn't notice yesterday. I was listening to Doc Walker this morning and he was asked about the run heavy approach and he defended that by saying Robert has no confidence that he will get the time. The don't roll him out enough. It's like being in a house on fire. Doc also said the run heavy approach is all we could do because obviously our passing game is horrendous. When he does get the ball off he over throw or they run the wrong route or the ball gets dropped. This does not build confidence. Doc also talked about how well our running game was working and like you were alluding to. There wasn't play action.

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Re: This team is being exposed in all areas

Postby DarthMonk » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:01 pm

Deadskins wrote:
PAPDOG67 wrote:I believe the clock stops when a player goes OB inside of 2:00 in the 1st half and inside of 5:00 in the 4th quarter. I can be wrong, but I'm almost positive that's the rule.

I'm not sure when this rule changed, but you are absolutely correct.
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/pu ... Timing.pdf


The clock always stops when a player goes out of bounds before forward progress is stopped. The issue is when the clock restarts. It restarts when the ball is spotted and the ref gives a signal UNLESS it is the last 2 or 5 minutes of the halves as stated above.

This rule went into effect in 1990.

Major rule changes

The following changes are made to try to speed up the game:

Whenever a player goes out of bounds, outside of the last two minutes of the first half and outside of the last five minutes of the second half, the game clock immediately starts when the ball is spotted for the next play and the Referee signals it is ready for play.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_NFL_season
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Re: This team is being exposed in all areas

Postby Deadskins » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:44 pm

DarthMonk wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
PAPDOG67 wrote:I believe the clock stops when a player goes OB inside of 2:00 in the 1st half and inside of 5:00 in the 4th quarter. I can be wrong, but I'm almost positive that's the rule.

I'm not sure when this rule changed, but you are absolutely correct.
http://static.nfl.com/static/content/pu ... Timing.pdf


The clock always stops when a player goes out of bounds before forward progress is stopped. The issue is when the clock restarts. It restarts when the ball is spotted and the ref gives a signal UNLESS it is the last 2 or 5 minutes of the halves as stated above.

This rule went into effect in 1990.

Major rule changes

The following changes are made to try to speed up the game:

Whenever a player goes out of bounds, outside of the last two minutes of the first half and outside of the last five minutes of the second half, the game clock immediately starts when the ball is spotted for the next play and the Referee signals it is ready for play.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_NFL_season

I thought the original change was the last five minutes of each half, then changed to last two of the first half. This was the change that I was questioning.
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Re: This team is being exposed in all areas

Postby DarthMonk » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:19 pm

Deadskins wrote:I thought the original change was the last five minutes of each half, then changed to last two of the first half. This was the change that I was questioning.


I know.

I believe it was all simultaneous. I don't think it was ever "last 5 minutes both halves." The wording of the 1990 rule certainly strongly suggests (and pretty much down right implies, given what I know) that the restarting of the clock after out-of-bounds once the ball is spotted began at the same time the "2 minute" and "5 minute" exceptions went into affect.

It appears that before 1990, OB simply stopped the clock until the snap regardless of what the game clock said. Otherwise, wouldn't the 1990 rule just mention one or the other - not both? After all, there is no reason to have the 2 and 5 minute exceptions if the clock is always simply stopped and not restarted until the snap - as was the case before 1990. That rule was changed with the accompanying 2 and 5 minute exceptions.

If it had been 5 minutes in both halves pre-1990, why mention the restarting of the clock with the spotting of the ball in 1990 as a way of speeding up the game since that part of the rule would have already existed?

It would be an extremely minor speed-up to simply change 5 minutes to 2 in the first half - and the 1990 rule is listed as a Major rule change.

BTW - true story:

I called in to a Super Bowl pregame show in 1983 when they were taking calls on ways to speed up the game. I suggested restarting the clock (as described in the 1990 rule (I did not offer the late half exceptions). I was laughed off by the talk show crew. 7 years later it was a major rule change. So I know the rule did not exist as of 1983 and its first appearance I have found under "NFL Rule Changes" from 1980 to 1990 is in 1990.

My 2 cents
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Re: This team is being exposed in all areas

Postby Deadskins » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:12 am

DarthMonk wrote:
Deadskins wrote:I thought the original change was the last five minutes of each half, then changed to last two of the first half. This was the change that I was questioning.


I know.

I believe it was all simultaneous. I don't think it was ever "last 5 minutes both halves." The wording of the 1990 rule certainly strongly suggests (and pretty much down right implies, given what I know) that the restarting of the clock after out-of-bounds once the ball is spotted began at the same time the "2 minute" and "5 minute" exceptions went into affect.

It appears that before 1990, OB simply stopped the clock until the snap regardless of what the game clock said. Otherwise, wouldn't the 1990 rule just mention one or the other - not both? After all, there is no reason to have the 2 and 5 minute exceptions if the clock is always simply stopped and not restarted until the snap - as was the case before 1990. That rule was changed with the accompanying 2 and 5 minute exceptions.

If it had been 5 minutes in both halves pre-1990, why mention the restarting of the clock with the spotting of the ball in 1990 as a way of speeding up the game since that part of the rule would have already existed?

It would be an extremely minor speed-up to simply change 5 minutes to 2 in the first half - and the 1990 rule is listed as a Major rule change.

BTW - true story:

I called in to a Super Bowl pregame show in 1983 when they were taking calls on ways to speed up the game. I suggested restarting the clock (as described in the 1990 rule (I did not offer the late half exceptions). I was laughed off by the talk show crew. 7 years later it was a major rule change. So I know the rule did not exist as of 1983 and its first appearance I have found under "NFL Rule Changes" from 1980 to 1990 is in 1990.

My 2 cents

No, I wasn't doubting that this was the way the rule has always been since 1990, after reading your previous post, I was just explaining the word "change" in my original response. As for your anecdote, you, sir, are a true visionary. :hail:
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Re: This team is being exposed in all areas

Postby SkinsJock » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:01 am

recently we saw a play where a player caught the ball running backwards and went out of bounds without being pushed or stopped in any way? I think the official ruled the clock should be kept running because he did not go out of bounds making forward progress ....

I'm sorry this is off-topic - I'm just interested
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Re: This team is being exposed in all areas

Postby Deadskins » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:28 am

SkinsJock wrote:recently we saw a play where a player caught the ball running backwards and went out of bounds without being pushed or stopped in any way? I think the official ruled the clock should be kept running because he did not go out of bounds making forward progress ....

I'm sorry this is off-topic - I'm just interested

I'm pretty sure that in that instance the clock should have been stopped. It's when their forward progress has been stopped by a defensive player, in the field of play, before going OOB that they don't stop the clock.
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Re: This team is being exposed in all areas

Postby DarthMonk » Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:04 pm

SkinsJock wrote:recently we saw a play where a player caught the ball running backwards and went out of bounds without being pushed or stopped in any way? I think the official ruled the clock should be kept running because he did not go out of bounds making forward progress ....

I'm sorry this is off-topic - I'm just interested


Actually on topic, bro. There is a bit of a gray area here. They can't give a guy forward progress AND stop the clock if he goes OB behind that point. It has to be one or the other. I'm not exactly sure how they make the decision. There might be a judgment call as to what the ball carrier is trying to do, i.e., is he trying to get OB or is he trying to get up-field.
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