Shanahasn't and never will

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby riggofan » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:42 pm

Deadskins wrote:DaSkins didn't write that. It came from the Post article. He should have put it in a quote box, though.


Gotcha.
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby Deadskins » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:45 pm

riggofan wrote:You're seriously going to whine that Shanahan is sitting him in favor or Jordan Reid?

To be fair, he was not calling for Davis over Reed, but for the two of them on the field together.
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby riggofan » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:21 pm

Deadskins wrote:
riggofan wrote:You're seriously going to whine that Shanahan is sitting him in favor or Jordan Reid?

To be fair, he was not calling for Davis over Reed, but for the two of them on the field together.


That's not what he wrote, but its still not much of an argument.

So he's upset that Shanahan is playing Reed/Paulsen instead of Reed/Davis. Really, what's the argument there? Shanahan can't complain about the lack of depth at positions like safety because we have some depth at TE?
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby SkinsJock » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:04 pm

riggofan wrote:... Shanahan may not be the football genius Bill Belichik seems to be. But he isn't Jim Zorn either.
If what we get out of these four or five years is some stability, some new professionalism, finally putting Cerrato's mess behind us so the next coach has a solid foundation to build on, I'll consider this tenure a success.


AMEN - as bad as we've been since Snyder took over, the worst was the Zorn era - not so much because of Zorn but … REAL BAD

I look at where we were and where we are - this franchise has a future now …

btw - I'd still make the trade for RG3 - he's going to prove to be the best choice at QB for this franchise from that draft
Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson might not even be able to function if we'd taken them
The Redskins need to change to improve - we need a better GM and we need to do a better job of who we bring in to coach and play here - players and coaches need to be held accountable when they do not do their jobs well

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby DarthMonk » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:34 pm

Here are his defenses in Denver and how they ranked with the exception of his first year (hold over from previous coach) and his last two (helped to get him fired):

Year Pts Yds
2006 8th 14th
2005 3rd 4th
2004 9th 4th
2003 9th 4th
2002 15th 6th
2001 21st 8th
2000 24th 2nd
1999 7th 15th
1998 11th 5th
1997 5th 4th
1996 4th 16th


Those last 2 were doozies. Denver was 28th and 30th those years in points allowed. He hired a guy name Bob Slowik for those last 2 years after the nice run cited above. Slowik had just finished coaching defenses for the Bears and Packers to rankings of 29th, 23rd, 29th, and 23rd. He brought Slowik with him to Washington where he's coached ... ahem, the secondary and linebackers.
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby DaSkinz Baby » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:40 pm

riggofan wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
riggofan wrote:You're seriously going to whine that Shanahan is sitting him in favor or Jordan Reid?

To be fair, he was not calling for Davis over Reed, but for the two of them on the field together.


That's not what he wrote, but its still not much of an argument.

So he's upset that Shanahan is playing Reed/Paulsen instead of Reed/Davis. Really, what's the argument there? Shanahan can't complain about the lack of depth at positions like safety because we have some depth at TE?


riggofan I guess that depends on how you look at it, all I was trying to say was simply you have a tightend that caused defenses problems, you have another one with the same skill set. If your trying to as he says put his team in the best position to succeed then you use what you have, you don't deactivate him - again IMHO, I also look closely at the offensive line, Chester and Polumbus play has been terrible this year, people that started when the linemen were hurt could have been played just to see if it was any better, again something not done. Shananigan's is simply terrible in many spectrums people defend him on.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby skinsfan#33 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:12 pm

DarthMonk wrote:
Here are his defenses in Denver and how they ranked with the exception of his first year (hold over from previous coach) and his last two (helped to get him fired):

Year Pts Yds
2006 8th 14th
2005 3rd 4th
2004 9th 4th
2003 9th 4th
2002 15th 6th
2001 21st 8th
2000 24th 2nd
1999 7th 15th
1998 11th 5th
1997 5th 4th
1996 4th 16th


Those last 2 were doozies. Denver was 28th and 30th those years in points allowed. He hired a guy name Bob Slowik for those last 2 years after the nice run cited above. Slowik had just finished coaching defenses for the Bears and Packers to rankings of 29th, 23rd, 29th, and 23rd. He brought Slowik with him to Washington where he's coached ... ahem, the secondary and linebackers.

And he works for Raheem Morris, so his impact is pprobably minimal. I don't know why Slowik is here other than Shanny likes him.

I didn't discount those two seasons for no reason. I discounted them because they were bad. I was responding to the claim that Shanny had never had a good defense that he built, so I discounted the first year (too many hold overs from Wade Phillips Broncos) and the last two because they are what got him fired from Denver. I was not trying to claim that all of his defenses were good, just that some of them were. I'm fact all but those last two seasons were good and most very good!
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby Deadskins » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:31 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
riggofan wrote:... Shanahan may not be the football genius Bill Belichik seems to be. But he isn't Jim Zorn either.
If what we get out of these four or five years is some stability, some new professionalism, finally putting Cerrato's mess behind us so the next coach has a solid foundation to build on, I'll consider this tenure a success.


AMEN - as bad as we've been since Snyder took over, the worst was the Zorn era - not so much because of Zorn but … REAL BAD

I look at where we were and where we are - this franchise has a future now …

btw - I'd still make the trade for RG3 - he's going to prove to be the best choice at QB for this franchise from that draft
Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson might not even be able to function if we'd taken them

The worst was the Spurrier era by far. I'd also still make the RGIII trade.
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby riggofan » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:40 am

I'd still make the RGIII trade too.

I know fans are impatient, but I'd give up two first round picks to avoid another 20 years of futility at the QB position any day. We can NOT forget this (apologies in advance if you just ate):

2011 Rex Grossman (13) / John Beck (3)
2010 Donovan McNabb (13) / Rex Grossman (3)
2009 Jason Campbell (16)
2008 Jason Campbell (16)
2007 Jason Campbell (13) / Todd Collins (3)
2006 Mark Brunell (9) / Jason Campbell (7)
2005 Mark Brunell (15) / Patrick Ramsey (1)
2004 Mark Brunell (9) / Patrick Ramsey (7)
2003 Patrick Ramsey (11) / Tim Hasselbeck (5)
2002 Shane Matthews (7) / Patrick Ramsey (5) / Danny Wuerffel (4)
2001 Tony Banks (14) / Jeff George (2)
2000 Brad Johnson (11) / Jeff George (5)
1999 Brad Johnson (16)
1998 Trent Green (14) / Gus Frerotte (2)
1997 Gus Frerotte (13) / Jeff Hostetler (3)
1996 Gus Frerotte (16)
1995 Gus Frerotte (11) / Heath Shuler (5)
1994 Heath Shuler (8) / John Friesz (4) / Gus Frerotte (4)
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby DarthMonk » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:45 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:
DarthMonk wrote:
Here are his defenses in Denver and how they ranked with the exception of his first year (hold over from previous coach) and his last two (helped to get him fired):

Year Pts Yds
2006 8th 14th
2005 3rd 4th
2004 9th 4th
2003 9th 4th
2002 15th 6th
2001 21st 8th
2000 24th 2nd
1999 7th 15th
1998 11th 5th
1997 5th 4th
1996 4th 16th


Those last 2 were doozies. Denver was 28th and 30th those years in points allowed. He hired a guy name Bob Slowik for those last 2 years after the nice run cited above. Slowik had just finished coaching defenses for the Bears and Packers to rankings of 29th, 23rd, 29th, and 23rd. He brought Slowik with him to Washington where he's coached ... ahem, the secondary and linebackers.

And he works for Raheem Morris, so his impact is pprobably minimal. I don't know why Slowik is here other than Shanny likes him.

I didn't discount those two seasons for no reason. I discounted them because they were bad. I was responding to the claim that Shanny had never had a good defense that he built, so I discounted the first year (too many hold overs from Wade Phillips Broncos) and the last two because they are what got him fired from Denver. I was not trying to claim that all of his defenses were good, just that some of them were. I'm fact all but those last two seasons were good and most very good!


Understood. I'm thinking he (Slowik) had the secondary before Morris and has linebackers now - not under Morris at all - I think. They are both under Haz who is under Shanny. My point is kinda this: As Shanny got more power he started "fixing" things that weren't broken - like here with our 4-3. Also, installing former coordinators as position coaches is a questionable tactic. It's a demotion and smells of too many chiefs and not enough indians ... so to speak.
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:13 am

The change to the 3-4 defense was NOT made to 'fix' anything - it was to have a defense that he (and his pal Belicheat) felt was better at the time and he brought in Haslett because he felt he would run things the way Mike wanted - I also understand that there were many formations off the 3-4 that Mike and his buddy Bill thought were more effective at that time in the NFL

If you can assume that the 4-3 defense would have been 'better' in that nest season - how in the world are we not 'better' this season than last season on defense when we've had the return from injury of a number of good players :shock: This defense really sucks
MAYBE it's not the 3-4, MAYBE it's the coaching and the execution AND the STUPID salary cap BS

I am NOT defending Mike at all - I don't like him as a coach and I don't like Kyle or Jim or Ken either - the issues we're having are not because Mike came here and made some really bad mistakes …

Mike & Bruce have done some really good things in getting this franchise back on track and we are going through that process still
a lot of things do not work very well here - things are getting better

I am looking forward to not having the Shanahans but they have been VERY good for this franchise - no question

we have our QB of the future and he will be here with a new OC and a new HC ….. eventually :wink:
The Redskins need to change to improve - we need a better GM and we need to do a better job of who we bring in to coach and play here - players and coaches need to be held accountable when they do not do their jobs well

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:23 am

btw - coaching in the NFL is a job and a lot of these coaches do not look at going from a DC to a position coach as a 'demotion'
they are still in the NFL and have a very good paying job and they are constantly trying to get better just like the players

there are quite a few HCs that would be better off as a DC or OC AND there are some OCs and DCs who would be better off being a position coach

then …. there's the bingo caller :lol:
The Redskins need to change to improve - we need a better GM and we need to do a better job of who we bring in to coach and play here - players and coaches need to be held accountable when they do not do their jobs well

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby DarthMonk » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:28 pm

SJ - your last few posts seem to simply argue for the sake of arguing. Fixing something that is not broken is a common phrase and clearly applies to our good 4-3 that became a bad 3-4. As for demotions, if the alternatives are coaching DBs and not having a job, the choice is clear. Nevertheless, going from D Coordinator to DB coach is a demotion.

I tried to not sound like a dick there. I know I have sounded that way in a lot of my posts lately.
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby StorminMormon86 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:23 pm

riggofan wrote:I'd still make the RGIII trade too.

I know fans are impatient, but I'd give up two first round picks to avoid another 20 years of futility at the QB position any day. We can NOT forget this (apologies in advance if you just ate):

2011 Rex Grossman (13) / John Beck (3)
2010 Donovan McNabb (13) / Rex Grossman (3)
2009 Jason Campbell (16)
2008 Jason Campbell (16)
2007 Jason Campbell (13) / Todd Collins (3)
2006 Mark Brunell (9) / Jason Campbell (7)
2005 Mark Brunell (15) / Patrick Ramsey (1)
2004 Mark Brunell (9) / Patrick Ramsey (7)
2003 Patrick Ramsey (11) / Tim Hasselbeck (5)
2002 Shane Matthews (7) / Patrick Ramsey (5) / Danny Wuerffel (4)
2001 Tony Banks (14) / Jeff George (2)
2000 Brad Johnson (11) / Jeff George (5)
1999 Brad Johnson (16)
1998 Trent Green (14) / Gus Frerotte (2)
1997 Gus Frerotte (13) / Jeff Hostetler (3)
1996 Gus Frerotte (16)
1995 Gus Frerotte (11) / Heath Shuler (5)
1994 Heath Shuler (8) / John Friesz (4) / Gus Frerotte (4)

Wow, that's pathetic. I thought Collins played in some of 2008 as well? Or was it just in relief of Campbell?

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby riggofan » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:31 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:
riggofan wrote:I'd still make the RGIII trade too.

I know fans are impatient, but I'd give up two first round picks to avoid another 20 years of futility at the QB position any day. We can NOT forget this (apologies in advance if you just ate):

2011 Rex Grossman (13) / John Beck (3)
2010 Donovan McNabb (13) / Rex Grossman (3)
2009 Jason Campbell (16)
2008 Jason Campbell (16)
2007 Jason Campbell (13) / Todd Collins (3)
2006 Mark Brunell (9) / Jason Campbell (7)
2005 Mark Brunell (15) / Patrick Ramsey (1)
2004 Mark Brunell (9) / Patrick Ramsey (7)
2003 Patrick Ramsey (11) / Tim Hasselbeck (5)
2002 Shane Matthews (7) / Patrick Ramsey (5) / Danny Wuerffel (4)
2001 Tony Banks (14) / Jeff George (2)
2000 Brad Johnson (11) / Jeff George (5)
1999 Brad Johnson (16)
1998 Trent Green (14) / Gus Frerotte (2)
1997 Gus Frerotte (13) / Jeff Hostetler (3)
1996 Gus Frerotte (16)
1995 Gus Frerotte (11) / Heath Shuler (5)
1994 Heath Shuler (8) / John Friesz (4) / Gus Frerotte (4)

Wow, that's pathetic. I thought Collins played in some of 2008 as well? Or was it just in relief of Campbell?


Painful, right? I pulled that list off Wikipedia, so not sure if Collins played any in 2008 or not. May have been "starting QBs".
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