Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Talk about the Washington Redskins here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?
Hog
Posts: 2361
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:56 am

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby RayNAustin » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:28 pm

I'm with CC to the extent that common sense must obviously recognize the severity of the cap hit on personnel. Of course it hurt the team ... very painful to be sure. But that does not explain (or make disappear) years 1&2, and the glaring errors made then.

And while acknowledging the fact that Mike S. has done a very good job in his draft picks (yes I said a very good job), other areas, not so much. And it's possible that my concern is more related to Kyle, rather than Mike, but the two are a package deal, so at the end of the day, it still comes back to Mike.

Furthermore, to those willing to give Mike and Kyle a pass, but condemn Haz is just beyond my grasp, since I strongly believe that the defense has been impacted more by the cap hit. True, a couple of oline upgrades might do wonders ... the defensive secondary is by far the weakest area on the team, and also one of the worst areas to be deficient.

But if someone can explain to me how having more cap money will promote better decision making ... i. e. choose not to use your already damaged franchise QB as a running back in a game that means nothing in a season that is lost ... I'mal ears.

JSPB22
User avatar
Posts: 16165
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:03 am
Location: Location, LOCATION!

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby Deadskins » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:18 am

Irn-Bru wrote:Whether Allen/Shanahan are here next year or not, one thing I will always admire them for is the way they refused to mortgage our future in dealing with the cap hit. No shuffling contracts to make 2014 and 2015 more difficult; they took the full hit right now so that the team has a brighter long-term future. It certainly has had an impact on their job security, but it was the right thing to do, and this fan is grateful for it.

=D> =D> =D> =D>
+1
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.


Hog Bowl IV Champion (2012)

Hail to the Redskins!

JSPB22
User avatar
Posts: 16165
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:03 am
Location: Location, LOCATION!

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby Deadskins » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:21 am

Irn-Bru wrote:I forgot to add: I was very impressed when Collinsworth had the guts to say on national television last night: "Of course, I still need someone to explain to me how you can be penalized for violating the salary cap in an uncapped year — that doesn't make any sense to me." As common-sense as the position is, that's still a bold statement for a color commentator to make. Especially with Mara/Goodell likely to hear about it.

I was really surprised he said that too, but was glad he did. I wish he had made it clear it was Mara behind the deal to strip two division rivals of 46 million in cap space.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.


Hog Bowl IV Champion (2012)

Hail to the Redskins!

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1277
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:23 pm
Location: Pasadena, MD

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby StorminMormon86 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:50 am

RayNAustin wrote:I'm with CC to the extent that common sense must obviously recognize the severity of the cap hit on personnel. Of course it hurt the team ... very painful to be sure. But that does not explain (or make disappear) years 1&2, and the glaring errors made then.

And while acknowledging the fact that Mike S. has done a very good job in his draft picks (yes I said a very good job), other areas, not so much. And it's possible that my concern is more related to Kyle, rather than Mike, but the two are a package deal, so at the end of the day, it still comes back to Mike.

Furthermore, to those willing to give Mike and Kyle a pass, but condemn Haz is just beyond my grasp, since I strongly believe that the defense has been impacted more by the cap hit. True, a couple of oline upgrades might do wonders ... the defensive secondary is by far the weakest area on the team, and also one of the worst areas to be deficient.

But if someone can explain to me how having more cap money will promote better decision making ... i. e. choose not to use your already damaged franchise QB as a running back in a game that means nothing in a season that is lost ... I'mal ears.

I was going to post something similar, thanks for beating me to it.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 4768
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby riggofan » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:10 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:I'm with CC to the extent that common sense must obviously recognize the severity of the cap hit on personnel. Of course it hurt the team ... very painful to be sure. But that does not explain (or make disappear) years 1&2, and the glaring errors made then.

And while acknowledging the fact that Mike S. has done a very good job in his draft picks (yes I said a very good job), other areas, not so much. And it's possible that my concern is more related to Kyle, rather than Mike, but the two are a package deal, so at the end of the day, it still comes back to Mike.

Furthermore, to those willing to give Mike and Kyle a pass, but condemn Haz is just beyond my grasp, since I strongly believe that the defense has been impacted more by the cap hit. True, a couple of oline upgrades might do wonders ... the defensive secondary is by far the weakest area on the team, and also one of the worst areas to be deficient.

But if someone can explain to me how having more cap money will promote better decision making ... i. e. choose not to use your already damaged franchise QB as a running back in a game that means nothing in a season that is lost ... I'mal ears.

I was going to post something similar, thanks for beating me to it.


I don't know. I don't really see what years 1 & 2 have to do with it at this point. There is no doubt that Shanahan made some mistakes those years, most notably completely underestimating the rebuilding job he was faced with. This whole thing about "will the cap space keep him from making bad decisions in the future" is just snarky and irrelevant. No coach is going to be right 100% of the time. Ask Pete Carroll how right he was to spend millions on Matt Flynn. We just need our coach to be right more often than he is wrong. And give Shanahan some credit, he's not afraid to change course and move on when he's made a mistake (see: McNabb, Donovan).

You either believe that Shanahan has established a solid foundation for the team and give him another year free of the cap penalty, or you think its time to move on. That's just a guess from any of us. I think our offense is really close, especially with a fully healthy RGIII next year. But I will admit its hard to imagine turning around that defense in one offseason.

08 Champ
Posts: 13411
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: on the bandwagon

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:34 pm

OK - I'll try - I do NOT think that having more cap money is going to help the 'on field' decision making … however the FO has managed to make some pretty good additions recently - I don't see that by just changing the coaching staff, that's going to suddenly improve the on-field decision making

Kyle has not done a great a job helping RG3 transition from the read option to a more complete QB - that might have more to do with not having a very good O line

we do have many issues on defense but again that is more player related than by bad coaching IMO - not that I think that Haslett is a great DC

I HOPE that we see this FO work some more magic here and find some players that can make the good players we have (on offense and defense) better

Special Teams coach Ken Burns is gone - is it possible that he just does not have the players either


BASICALLY - I do think that the guys in charge here (Bruce and Mike) should get another year based on what they've done here the past 2 seasons

It's going to be interesting to see … IF Mike is still here and I think he's staying, which players and coaches he wants here
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

HAIL


Currently 50-41

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 4768
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby riggofan » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:43 pm

SkinsJock wrote:It's going to be interesting to see … IF Mike is still here and I think he's staying, which players and coaches he wants here


I think Mike will stay and probably have to replace Haz. Totally agree that its not entirely fair to Haslett, but fans are going to demand something like that.

08 Champ
Posts: 13411
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: on the bandwagon

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:27 pm

^^ +1 - I don't think that Mike's EGO makes him feel that he 'needs' to do anything, but …

I think he's got to make some changes in order to stay

I will say that if the defense next season is not a huge improvement - Mike has to take the hit for that - not the DC
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

HAIL


Currently 50-41

CKRGiii
Posts: 4656
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:56 pm
Location: 505 New Mexico repn

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:32 pm

Am I the only one thinks raheem morris should get a shot? He's groomed our rookie dbs well enough, hall has been playing well.. but the "help" is never there.. is this on the player or the play call? #twocents
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 4768
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby riggofan » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:19 pm

SkinsJock wrote:^^ +1 - I don't think that Mike's EGO makes him feel that he 'needs' to do anything, but …

I think he's got to make some changes in order to stay


I'm sure you're right about that! I just wouldn't be surprised if there is some pressure from Snyder on that front. Even Shanahan has to understand that there is a business part to all this whether he is happy with Haz or not. I think changing the DC would take a little heat off the team if they want to give Shanahan one more year.

SkinsJock wrote:I will say that if the defense next season is not a huge improvement - Mike has to take the hit for that - not the DC


Free agency, the draft, whatever. Shanahan and Bruce Allen for that matter HAVE to bring in some better players on defense next year or its not going to matter who the DC is, right?

Btw did I see like 7 of our starters on defense are set to become free agents this offseason? Those guys have their work cut out for them.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 4768
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby riggofan » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:26 pm

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Am I the only one thinks raheem morris should get a shot? He's groomed our rookie dbs well enough, hall has been playing well.. but the "help" is never there.. is this on the player or the play call? #twocents


Not my first choice, but I don't think its a bad one.

Let me go crazier. We bring in Kubiak as OC and Rex Ryan as DC when they're both canned at the end of the season. :)

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1277
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:23 pm
Location: Pasadena, MD

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby StorminMormon86 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:26 pm

riggofan wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:It's going to be interesting to see … IF Mike is still here and I think he's staying, which players and coaches he wants here


I think Mike will stay and probably have to replace Haz. Totally agree that its not entirely fair to Haslett, but fans are going to demand something like that.

I think the writing is on the wall that he'll have to fire both Haslett and Kyle in order to save his own job next year.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:56 pm

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby rskin72 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:32 pm

The salary cap fiasco, and the injury to Robert last season and subsequent recovery period are the two main reasons I am onboard with giving Mike another season here. And that implies that Kyle would be here as well. I think Mike has done a decent job of evaluating talent, especially in the draft. We have gotten better under Mike talent wise. I mean, Reed, Robert, Morris, Kerrigan, Williams, Amerson....Helu, Cousins........but even with the talent upgrade (speed and youth) since Mike took over, have we upgraded enough to be competitive consistently with the top tier teams in the NFL? Right now that answer looks like a resounding NO.....but we may not be that far away. As for Kyle, I am not sure if he is being stubborn as an OC and not working with Robert....or if he is just limited in playcalling due to the lack of progress Robert has made at the QB position this season. I heard Cooley imply the other day that it seemed during the Giants game that our OC was more concerned with running every play on his playsheet vice running the plays that worked (especially in the first half). Of course, whatever the state of affairs is between Mike, Kyle and Robert....that needs to get resolved this offseason.

I do not have the same patience with our DC. I was even less a fan of Haz than I was of our HC. While we may not have the talent to be a top flight D like San Fran or Seattle yet....certainly we can do better than this. I think scheme....and adjustments....are some key ingredients that are missing right now for the D. I don't expect a #1 defense.....but with the players we have, we should be better IMHO.

And....ST coach should have been gone a long time ago. Has there been maybe one game where we did not have some ST gaff, and a costly gaff at that?

So....once again....I look forward to next season.....a common theme for far too long.
A winning effort begins with preparation.
Failures are expected by losers, ignored by winners.

Quotes by Joe Gibbs

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 4768
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby riggofan » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:34 pm

Here's what Don Banks/SI wrote about it on Tuesday:

Sources close to the situation in D.C. say they don't think Redskins owner Daniel Snyder has made up his mind yet on whether he wants to bring Shanahan back in 2014, and things could still go either way. But the key sub-plot to watch may be offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan, the coach's son. I'm told that if the Redskins decide they want to part ways with Mike Shanahan with one year at $7 million left on his contract, they'll likely ask him to fire Kyle as OC, knowing he won't do it, but hoping he'll walk away from the fifth and final season of the deal.

That seems optimistic and way too easy of a conclusion, and I'm not sure why Mike Shanahan wouldn't call their bluff, make them fire him and collect his money.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/ne ... z2mXo5aP4b

08 Champ
Posts: 13411
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: on the bandwagon

Re: Collinsworth blames cap for Redskins' woes

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:53 pm

riggofan wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:Mike's EGO is HUGE but I think he's got to make some changes in order to stay
I'm sure you're right about that! I just wouldn't be surprised if there is some pressure from Snyder on that front. Even Shanahan has to understand that there is a business part to all this whether he is happy with Haz or not. I think changing the DC would take a little heat off the team if they want to give Shanahan one more year.
SkinsJock wrote:I will say that if the defense next season is not a huge improvement - Mike has to take the hit for that - not the DC

Free agency, the draft, whatever. Shanahan and Bruce Allen for that matter HAVE to bring in some better players on defense next year or its not going to matter who the DC is, right?
BTW - did I see like 7 of our starters on defense are set to become free agents this offseason? Those guys have their work cut out for them.

RIGHT ON - No matter who is the DC there will be a lot of new guys - there has to be - the critical part is not just adding players but finding the right mix

new DC or not - the defense has to be a lot better and that's a huge challenge for Mike

like you alluded to - Snyder may not want him back and that could get very interesting
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

HAIL


Currently 50-41

Return to Hog Wash - Washington Redskins Football