The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Talk about the Washington Redskins here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?
Hog
Posts: 2090
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:05 pm
Location: Midland, VA

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:51 am

I don't even like Wilbon but I saw this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... lled-this/ this morning. I think he sums it up pretty good before it happened.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 4400
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby riggofan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:58 am

SCSkinsFan wrote:But, now comes the biggest problem. Snyder is the owner and he is not going to sell the team and go away. So, who comes in now to solve he problem. A former NFL coach? A retread? A college coach? Who would want to become part of the mess this team is in now? The problems are now so rampant in all parts of the organization that it will take a miracle to restore it to any state of respectability.


I don't agree with everything you wrote, but I'm with you on the "who would want this job" point. I don't think any coach coming in can feel too good about Snyder. Honestly, I thought the same thing when Shanahan took the job. I think fans knew what a mess he was taking over, even if he underestimated it.

I'll disagree a little about it taking a miracle to restore the team to respectability. Whatever our record has been over the past four years, Shanahan has cleaned up some things too. We have some young talent. We have Bruce Allen, not Vinny Cerrato. We'll have some real cap space to work with. Won't have the first round pick, but our 2d round will be high. Whether you like RGIII or not, I certainly feel better starting next season with him and Cousins, than with Grossman and Beck!

We can get back to respectability if Snyder doesn't make a mess of the next coaching hire.

Hog
Posts: 2090
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:05 pm
Location: Midland, VA

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:05 pm

It is going to take someone with some backbone. Someone like Parcells. I am not saying him, just saying someone like him or Gibbs or Marty. I like Gruden but I would feel better if we had a foundation before hiring him. He knows how to use the people that are are there. Plus he lost his locker room in Tampa. We need someone that can have real checks and balances going on in the FO. Someone that wont quit on us.

JSPB22
User avatar
Posts: 15877
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:03 am
Location: Location, LOCATION!

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Deadskins » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:45 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:I don't even like Wilbon but I saw this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... lled-this/ this morning. I think he sums it up pretty good before it happened.

He really didn't. Most of the points he made are just simply no longer true. The ones he got right are universal, and don't apply to the Redskins alone.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.


Hog Bowl IV Champion (2012)

Hail to the Redskins!

Hog
Posts: 2090
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:05 pm
Location: Midland, VA

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:51 pm

Deadskins wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:I don't even like Wilbon but I saw this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... lled-this/ this morning. I think he sums it up pretty good before it happened.

He really didn't. Most of the points he made are just simply no longer true. The ones he got right are universal, and don't apply to the Redskins alone.


“And it’s not like we don’t have a book on Shanahan the talent evaluator: He’s bad at it. Like Joe Gibbs, Shanahan is one helluva coach but not particularly insightful as a talent evaluator. ”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... lled-this/


Shanahan the personnel man undermined Shanahan the coach so badly, he was fired after twice not making the playoffs. So, moving from Denver to Washington is going to change all that?”

JSPB22
User avatar
Posts: 15877
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:03 am
Location: Location, LOCATION!

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Deadskins » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:57 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:I don't even like Wilbon but I saw this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... lled-this/ this morning. I think he sums it up pretty good before it happened.

He really didn't. Most of the points he made are just simply no longer true. The ones he got right are universal, and don't apply to the Redskins alone.


“And it’s not like we don’t have a book on Shanahan the talent evaluator: He’s bad at it. Like Joe Gibbs, Shanahan is one helluva coach but not particularly insightful as a talent evaluator. ”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... lled-this/


Shanahan the personnel man undermined Shanahan the coach so badly, he was fired after twice not making the playoffs. So, moving from Denver to Washington is going to change all that?”

And I don't really agree with that. I think he's done a fine job of talent evaluation. Actually, better than he's done at coaching, so I think Wilbon missed at that too.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.


Hog Bowl IV Champion (2012)

Hail to the Redskins!

SCskinsFan
Posts: 5351
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Summerville, SC

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby SCSkinsFan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:03 pm

riggofan wrote:
SCSkinsFan wrote:But, now comes the biggest problem. Snyder is the owner and he is not going to sell the team and go away. So, who comes in now to solve he problem. A former NFL coach? A retread? A college coach? Who would want to become part of the mess this team is in now? The problems are now so rampant in all parts of the organization that it will take a miracle to restore it to any state of respectability.


I don't agree with everything you wrote, but I'm with you on the "who would want this job" point. I don't think any coach coming in can feel too good about Snyder. Honestly, I thought the same thing when Shanahan took the job. I think fans knew what a mess he was taking over, even if he underestimated it.

I'll disagree a little about it taking a miracle to restore the team to respectability. Whatever our record has been over the past four years, Shanahan has cleaned up some things too. We have some young talent. We have Bruce Allen, not Vinny Cerrato. We'll have some real cap space to work with. Won't have the first round pick, but our 2d round will be high. Whether you like RGIII or not, I certainly feel better starting next season with him and Cousins, than with Grossman and Beck!

We can get back to respectability if Snyder doesn't make a mess of the next coaching hire.


I too was in hopes that Shanahan would clean things up and originally it did appear that he had. Winning the NFC East last year gave all fans a glimmer of hope. But where are things now? How is the overall relationship between Snyder, Shanahan, and RGIII. And remember, Bruce Allen was here before Shanahan was and he appears to nowhere to be seen in this mess at this point. And now the sniping and back-stabbing has started.

I like RGIII and having Kirk Cousins as is backup. We are in good shape at QB.But, most of that were around when Coach Gibbs arrived that the Skins started back on the road to respectability when they drafted Mark May, Russ Grimm, added Joe Jacoby, and started to develop a dominant O line. The offensive concept (take that both ways) under Shanahan is not built that way. I'd prefer for us to go back to having a dominating, road grading, knock them off the ball type of O line that can also pass block and protect than the supposedly quick and nimble players that we have now and are getting run over week to week. I'm sure that Alfred Morris, a quality draft choice, could gain a good amount of yards running behind a line of road graders.

I'll stand behind my observations on the D and Special teams too.

So, the question still is,"Who can we really expect to come in and fix this mess"?
Skins fan Stuck in Panther land

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 4400
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby riggofan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:07 pm

Its funny you wrote that man, about wanting the o-line, run the ball, grind it out offense. I heard somebody on the radio recently, maybe like a Fred Smoot or someone along that lines, kind of making fun of Washington fans, because that's what we always come back to. We want that hogs/Riggins offense which doesn't really exist in the NFL anymore. Its a passing league they say.

Hog
Posts: 2090
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:05 pm
Location: Midland, VA

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:17 pm

Shanahan the personnel man undermined Shanahan the coach so badly, he was fired after twice not making the playoffs. So, moving from Denver to Washington is going to change all that?”

And I don't really agree with that. I think he's done a fine job of talent evaluation. Actually, better than he's done at coaching, so I think Wilbon missed at that too.


He missed on talent along the Oline, He missed on linebackers, he missed on secondary, he missed on QBs pre Robert. He missed on coaches Burns, JH there is way too much to elaborate on. The list is long. I like some of the things Shanahan has done. He got us younger, he got us in cap control minus the cap gate crap. He has made a real attempt at a scouting department. He has spread himself thin with to much responsibilities. How many successful coach/GM/last word guys are there?

#33
Posts: 4084
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:44 am

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby skinsfan#33 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:18 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote: In what way has Dan Snyder interfered negatively with the team in the last four years?


THAT is what the whole mess is about - apparently Snyder has been 'in touch' with Robert on more than one occasion and in a way that pissed off Mike

That sounds like a Mike problem not a Dan problem. Owners are simply going to have a special relationship with their franchise QB. You're insane think otherwise.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

#33
Posts: 4084
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:44 am

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby skinsfan#33 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:51 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:
Shanahan the personnel man undermined Shanahan the coach so badly, he was fired after twice not making the playoffs. So, moving from Denver to Washington is going to change all that?”

And I don't really agree with that. I think he's done a fine job of talent evaluation. Actually, better than he's done at coaching, so I think Wilbon missed at that too.


He missed on talent along the Oline, He missed on linebackers, he missed on secondary, he missed on QBs pre Robert. He missed on coaches Burns, JH there is way too much to elaborate on. The list is long. I like some of the things Shanahan has done. He got us younger, he got us in cap control minus the cap gate crap. He has made a real attempt at a scouting department. He has spread himself thin with to much responsibilities. How many successful coach/GM/last word guys are there?

It is hard to tell what he (Shanny) missed on (other than selecting the DefCoor) add long as Haslett is here I'm convinced that the talent that we do have is much better than the results! LB is a strenght. Other than Fletcher all of the other guys are good to very good. Fletcher just should have retired last off season or the one before.
DHall can still play and Amerson looks like a decent pick, but as I said it is hard to tell with Jimmy Haslett running the show on the D. The DL has decent players, but no true NG, but a guy that had played well there despite being too small to pay the position.
ST problems are two fold. A horrendous ST coach, plus a HC that doesn't allow enough starters to pay on ST.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1103
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:23 pm
Location: Pasadena, MD

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby StorminMormon86 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:53 pm

I'm actually surprised that Snyder hasn't fired him yet.

SCskinsFan
Posts: 5351
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Summerville, SC

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby SCSkinsFan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:56 pm

riggofan wrote:Its funny you wrote that man, about wanting the o-line, run the ball, grind it out offense. I heard somebody on the radio recently, maybe like a Fred Smoot or someone along that lines, kind of making fun of Washington fans, because that's what we always come back to. We want that hogs/Riggins offense which doesn't really exist in the NFL anymore. Its a passing league they say.



Okay, let's agree that it is a passing league now. So then, wouldn't you agree that the team would be better off having an O Line that can at least pass block? The current cast of imposters can't do that and it getting overrun every week. Either way, it all starts with having a quality O line to either pass block adequately, or be able to open up holes for the running game. Think of all the short yardage plays where the team has failed to gain the yardage needed for wither a first down or a touchdown. The only time they succeeded is where they used misdirection (think of the Helu and D. Young TD's this year). It's not where the O Line is knocking the opposing D Line off the ball. It's easy to long for thew good old days, not it's not unreasonable to ask for some sign of improvement in that area too.
Skins fan Stuck in Panther land

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 4400
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby riggofan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:01 pm

SCSkinsFan wrote:
riggofan wrote:Its funny you wrote that man, about wanting the o-line, run the ball, grind it out offense. I heard somebody on the radio recently, maybe like a Fred Smoot or someone along that lines, kind of making fun of Washington fans, because that's what we always come back to. We want that hogs/Riggins offense which doesn't really exist in the NFL anymore. Its a passing league they say.



Okay, let's agree that it is a passing league now. So then, wouldn't you agree that the team would be better off having an O Line that can at least pass block?


Oh yeah, man, I totally agree with you. Your comment just struck me as funny because I had just heard that complaint about Redskins fans (I include myself in that!).

Its great that the ZBS is so effective for running the ball, but if it has to be a disaster in pass protection I don't know how you can stick with it.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 4400
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Re: The coach the team needs (who might be too old)

Postby riggofan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:05 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:He missed on talent along the Oline, He missed on linebackers, he missed on secondary, he missed on QBs pre Robert. He missed on coaches Burns, JH there is way too much to elaborate on. The list is long. I like some of the things Shanahan has done. He got us younger, he got us in cap control minus the cap gate crap. He has made a real attempt at a scouting department. He has spread himself thin with to much responsibilities. How many successful coach/GM/last word guys are there?


Saying he "missed on" talent is a pretty gross overstatement too. I'm sure there are some players that he missed on, but because of the cap penalties took a lot of the decision making out of his hands. There were a lot of potentially better players available in free agency we just couldn't afford.

Return to Hog Wash - Washington Redskins Football