Cousins Is Just Better...

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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby Hooligan » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:01 pm

Nothing wrong with an open competition. Every starting spot should be earned. You get respect by being the best option at the position, not the most expensive.
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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby OldSchool » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:24 pm

Hooligan wrote:Nothing wrong with an open competition. Every starting spot should be earned. You get respect by being the best option at the position, not the most expensive.



Well said!

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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby SkinsJock » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:23 pm

Every player has to 'earn' his place on the roster and Kirk will become the starting QB when he shows that he gives this franchise a better chance at success

Will he be as fast, or will he be able to throw as well, or will he be as smart with the ball …

maybe not … but he's still a good QB and he's only going to get better :D
The Redskins need to have a plan for how to put a product on the field that will be consistently competitive and they need to stick with that plan - it's taken years to become as bad as we are and it will be years getting out of it

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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby OldSchool » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:10 am

SkinsJock wrote:Every player has to 'earn' his place on the roster and Kirk will become the starting QB when he shows that he gives this franchise a better chance at success

Will he be as fast, or will he be able to throw as well, or will he be as smart with the ball …

maybe not … but he's still a good QB and he's only going to get better :D



Cousins as fast as Griffin? Cousins is much faster that is why he only got sacked once. Cousins very quickly correctly processed what he saw and fired. The speed that is important for a QB is between his ears and thus far Cousins is MUCH faster than Griffin. Foot speed isn't that important for QB.

Does Cousins throw as well as Griffin? Cousins is throwing MUCH better than Griffin. When I speak of Griffin I am talking about the real guy that has been taking the field not some theoretical Griffin of the future that has acquired a host of skills he doesn't have, Cousins throws much more accurately.

Smart with the ball? Cousins is much smarter with the ball than Griffin because he understands what he sees on the field and rapidly goes through his progression and throws to the right man. That isn't what you meant by smart with the ball you were talking about interceptions, okay let's talk about interceptions.

Toss out the emergency relief time when Cousins was thrown in cold and without being properly prepared and the game situations dictated risk taking. Let's be fair to Cousins and consider only his two starts when he was prepared and started with a fresh slate. In these two games he has rolled up 700 yards, threw for 6 touchdowns and 3 interceptions and was 1-1 on the road. In both games I think Cousins did a better job of distributing the ball and executing the base offense than Griffin is capable of doing. Sunday will be Cousins first home start and I think Cousins will come out spitting lighting and crapping thunder and the Skins to a victory over their hated rivals before a very appreciative home crowd.

As for the long term, I consider 2 starts too little to base a judgement on his potential, we don't know if he can consistently drive the team well and if with more experience he can reduce his interception rate as a starter from 1.5 per game. He gets two more chances this season to demonstrate his effectiveness. I am encouraged thus far and I believe it will be easier to coach Kirk to reduce his interception than to teach Robert all the different things he needs to learn to be adequate in the pocket. The Skins invested 13 games this season and 16 games the previous year and he still hasn't learned how to change protections prior to the snap, recognize the defense process through his protection and slide in the pocket. Cousins know how to do all these things but needs to reduce the interceptions. A 2TDs to 1 INT isn't bad for his two starts but I am sure he can do better.

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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby StorminMormon86 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:34 am

You must also factor in the fact that Cousins did not take any snaps with the starters for the majority of the season leading up to his first two starts. His numbers in both games are very impressive based off of the limited time he had to practice with the #1's.

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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:08 am

This is simple really - If Cousins shows that he's the better QB and making better decisions at running the offense, he will be the starter

If Robert is showing that he's the better QB then he will be the starter …

There are not many fans or any NFL people that think that Cousins WILL BE the starting QB for the Redskins in 2014

THE END
The Redskins need to have a plan for how to put a product on the field that will be consistently competitive and they need to stick with that plan - it's taken years to become as bad as we are and it will be years getting out of it

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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby OldSchool » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:36 pm

SkinsJock wrote:This is simple really - If Cousins shows that he's the better QB and making better decisions at running the offense, he will be the starter

If Robert is showing that he's the better QB then he will be the starter …

There are not many fans or any NFL people that think that Cousins WILL BE the starting QB for the Redskins in 2014

THE END


I am sure you are right about the fan and industry perception based on Griffin's exciting play out of the zone read last season and the three first round and second acquisition cost for Griffin all the attendant hype. No ones expects the Skins to demote Griffin after that huge investment. I think Snyder will opt to change coaching staffs to try to realize his vision of Griffin becoming a superstar. That said, I will not be surprised if Cousins beats Griffin out in Washington if they decide have open competition for the job and I am very confident Cousins will have longer and more substantial career than Griffin.

Too be a highly effective NFL quarterback Cousins needs to maintain the level of offensive production in his two starts and reduce the number of interceptions, that's it. Reducing the number of turnovers a QB makes in his first two starts through additional coaching and more experience sounds like very achievable goal. Certainly Cousins has a lower performance hurdle to jump than all the new skills Griffins to acquire and be able to consistently deliver unless the Redskins want play Russian Roulette with the read option and backyard scrambling like in 2012.

It is much easier for me to envision Cousins cutting his 1.5 INT per start in half over the course of his next 5 or 6 starts than it is me for to picture Griffin becoming a serviceable pocket passer in year three, much less as potent in the pocket as Cousins. Turning Griffin into a real NFL QB is a major project.
After two years Griffin still relies on one of the offensive lineman to shift the protection for him because he doesn't know how to himself. Since can't read the defense well enough to switch protections himself how can he effectively use the protection and help his lineman maintain it? He can't and quarter who can't read defenses pre-snap is going to catch on quick enough after the snap to anticipate which receiver is going to open he has to wait and see. This is why Griffin is taking so long and only seeing half the field like Cooley explained so well.

After two years and 29 starts Griffin is still not able to do the most elemental of quarterback jobs. How long is it going to take him to perform these mental tasks very quickly under pressure on the field? Cousins, the draft day afterthought who has been given a mere fraction of the coaching and prep time opportunities clearly outshines Griffin. To me Cousins looks tantalizing close to being a finished product after just two starts. Griffin hasn't made enough progress in his two seasons for me to have any confidence he can be competent in year 3, 4, or 5.

I believe Griffin was a very good student at Baylor so he is a bright young man, doesn't he care enough about his job to put in the time to learn how to read defense and shift the protection himself? Reading the defense after the snap and processing the information in a fraction of a second requires not only intelligence but maybe a special sort of intelligence different than academic work. It might require a special gift like musical or artistic talents in addition to being bright and putting in the time studying, I don't know. If he can't read defenses well enough to shift his protection prior to the snap I doubt after the snap he really has a good sense of who is going to get open soon enough, this why the offense and his protection has broken down this year. He can't run well enough now to play backyard ball so Shanny finally shut him down. Griffin is a bust.

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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby DarthMonk » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:47 pm

OldSchool wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:This is simple really - If Cousins shows that he's the better QB and making better decisions at running the offense, he will be the starter

If Robert is showing that he's the better QB then he will be the starter …

There are not many fans or any NFL people that think that Cousins WILL BE the starting QB for the Redskins in 2014

THE END


I am sure you are right about the fan and industry perception based on Griffin's exciting play out of the zone read last season and the three first round and second acquisition cost for Griffin all the attendant hype. No ones expects the Skins to demote Griffin after that huge investment. I think Snyder will opt to change coaching staffs to try to realize his vision of Griffin becoming a superstar. That said, I will not be surprised if Cousins beats Griffin out in Washington if they decide have open competition for the job and I am very confident Cousins will have longer and more substantial career than Griffin.

Too be a highly effective NFL quarterback Cousins needs to maintain the level of offensive production in his two starts and reduce the number of interceptions, that's it. Reducing the number of turnovers a QB makes in his first two starts through additional coaching and more experience sounds like very achievable goal. Certainly Cousins has a lower performance hurdle to jump than all the new skills Griffins to acquire and be able to consistently deliver unless the Redskins want play Russian Roulette with the read option and backyard scrambling like in 2012.

It is much easier for me to envision Cousins cutting his 1.5 INT per start in half over the course of his next 5 or 6 starts than it is me for to picture Griffin becoming a serviceable pocket passer in year three, much less as potent in the pocket as Cousins. Turning Griffin into a real NFL QB is a major project.
After two years Griffin still relies on one of the offensive lineman to shift the protection for him because he doesn't know how to himself. Since can't read the defense well enough to switch protections himself how can he effectively use the protection and help his lineman maintain it? He can't and quarter who can't read defenses pre-snap is going to catch on quick enough after the snap to anticipate which receiver is going to open he has to wait and see. This is why Griffin is taking so long and only seeing half the field like Cooley explained so well.

After two years and 29 starts Griffin is still not able to do the most elemental of quarterback jobs. How long is it going to take him to perform these mental tasks very quickly under pressure on the field? Cousins, the draft day afterthought who has been given a mere fraction of the coaching and prep time opportunities clearly outshines Griffin. To me Cousins looks tantalizing close to being a finished product after just two starts. Griffin hasn't made enough progress in his two seasons for me to have any confidence he can be competent in year 3, 4, or 5.

I believe Griffin was a very good student at Baylor so he is a bright young man, doesn't he care enough about his job to put in the time to learn how to read defense and shift the protection himself? Reading the defense after the snap and processing the information in a fraction of a second requires not only intelligence but maybe a special sort of intelligence different than academic work. It might require a special gift like musical or artistic talents in addition to being bright and putting in the time studying, I don't know. If he can't read defenses well enough to shift his protection prior to the snap I doubt after the snap he really has a good sense of who is going to get open soon enough, this why the offense and his protection has broken down this year. He can't run well enough now to play backyard ball so Shanny finally shut him down. Griffin is a bust.


A harsh but defensible commentary.

Where is the "After two years Griffin still relies on one of the offensive lineman to shift the protection for him because he doesn't know how to himself." come from?

Once I get that answer, my only real problem with your post is that I saw Griff perform very well from the pocket in his rookie year. I saw him go to his 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th read at times. He has regressed. I think I know why.
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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:43 pm

Nobody really thinks that Robert will get any preference based on what the Redskins gave up for him …

When a franchise has 2 good QBs whichever one is more likely to be successful or more likely to be better at running the offense is going to be the starting QB

The Redskins starting QB will be Robert - he will show that he's better at running the offense

2 things that will not matter in the decision - what we gave up for Robert or what Kirk or Robert did in 2013
all that will matter is who is the best QB for the Redskins in 2014

like I've said before - it's really very simple - Robert will be the QB
The Redskins need to have a plan for how to put a product on the field that will be consistently competitive and they need to stick with that plan - it's taken years to become as bad as we are and it will be years getting out of it

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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby OldSchool » Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:45 am

DarthMonk wrote:
OldSchool wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:This is simple really - If Cousins shows that he's the better QB and making better decisions at running the offense, he will be the starter

If Robert is showing that he's the better QB then he will be the starter …

There are not many fans or any NFL people that think that Cousins WILL BE the starting QB for the Redskins in 2014

THE END


I am sure you are right about the fan and industry perception based on Griffin's exciting play out of the zone read last season and the three first round and second acquisition cost for Griffin all the attendant hype. No ones expects the Skins to demote Griffin after that huge investment. I think Snyder will opt to change coaching staffs to try to realize his vision of Griffin becoming a superstar. That said, I will not be surprised if Cousins beats Griffin out in Washington if they decide have open competition for the job and I am very confident Cousins will have longer and more substantial career than Griffin.

Too be a highly effective NFL quarterback Cousins needs to maintain the level of offensive production in his two starts and reduce the number of interceptions, that's it. Reducing the number of turnovers a QB makes in his first two starts through additional coaching and more experience sounds like very achievable goal. Certainly Cousins has a lower performance hurdle to jump than all the new skills Griffins to acquire and be able to consistently deliver unless the Redskins want play Russian Roulette with the read option and backyard scrambling like in 2012.

It is much easier for me to envision Cousins cutting his 1.5 INT per start in half over the course of his next 5 or 6 starts than it is me for to picture Griffin becoming a serviceable pocket passer in year three, much less as potent in the pocket as Cousins. Turning Griffin into a real NFL QB is a major project.
After two years Griffin still relies on one of the offensive lineman to shift the protection for him because he doesn't know how to himself. Since can't read the defense well enough to switch protections himself how can he effectively use the protection and help his lineman maintain it? He can't and quarter who can't read defenses pre-snap is going to catch on quick enough after the snap to anticipate which receiver is going to open he has to wait and see. This is why Griffin is taking so long and only seeing half the field like Cooley explained so well.

After two years and 29 starts Griffin is still not able to do the most elemental of quarterback jobs. How long is it going to take him to perform these mental tasks very quickly under pressure on the field? Cousins, the draft day afterthought who has been given a mere fraction of the coaching and prep time opportunities clearly outshines Griffin. To me Cousins looks tantalizing close to being a finished product after just two starts. Griffin hasn't made enough progress in his two seasons for me to have any confidence he can be competent in year 3, 4, or 5.

I believe Griffin was a very good student at Baylor so he is a bright young man, doesn't he care enough about his job to put in the time to learn how to read defense and shift the protection himself? Reading the defense after the snap and processing the information in a fraction of a second requires not only intelligence but maybe a special sort of intelligence different than academic work. It might require a special gift like musical or artistic talents in addition to being bright and putting in the time studying, I don't know. If he can't read defenses well enough to shift his protection prior to the snap I doubt after the snap he really has a good sense of who is going to get open soon enough, this why the offense and his protection has broken down this year. He can't run well enough now to play backyard ball so Shanny finally shut him down. Griffin is a bust.


A harsh but defensible commentary.

Where is the "After two years Griffin still relies on one of the offensive lineman to shift the protection for him because he doesn't know how to himself." come from?

Once I get that answer, my only real problem with your post is that I saw Griff perform very well from the pocket in his rookie year. I saw him go to his 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th read at times. He has regressed. I think I know why.



Cooley in his recent breakdown mentioned that one of the lineman called the protection shifts for Griffin confirming what I saw watching the games. Other commentators have broken down plays and shown how Cousins shifted the protection so he was able to avoid sacks. Against Atlanta many of Cousins short passes were released in less than 2 sections even if the target wasn't the first read and the long ball to Robinson was gone in 3.7 seconds. Cousins got sacked 1 time whereas Griffin who has 38 sacks for the season and 24-25 in the last 5 games.

In 2012 defensives were worried about Griffin's breakaway running so they were passive this year with him less explosive they are bringing standard pressure and Griffin does understand and properly use the protection scheme and moves out of the pocket early which helps the defense breakdown the protection and get him.

He's a bright guy he should be able to make the pre-snap reads, shift and properly use his pocket after 2 seasons the other mental hurdle is making the correct post snap read and correctly going through the progressions quick enough to be effective which is a much bigger challenge. What separates successful quarters from the rest is how quickly they can process and accurately release to the right guy. Those that can start and stay in the league. Griffin needs to buckle down and learn how to do both of these things if he wants to have a really successful NFL career. Cousins could do Griffin a big favor if he lights it for two more games. That might motivate Griffin to listen and learn.

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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby DarthMonk » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:45 am

I thought standard operating procedure in the NFL was for a quarterback to give the protection change to one of his lineman, typically the center, who then communicated it to the rest of the line.
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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby SkinsJock » Sat Dec 21, 2013 10:30 am

DarthMonk wrote:I thought standard operating procedure in the NFL was for a quarterback to give the protection change to one of his lineman, typically the center, who then communicated it to the rest of the line.


me too

there's no doubt that Robert needs to get it together and 'take the next step' - for the most part this season it seemed like he was not as comfortable with the offense

we did see flashes of brilliance but there were too many glaring mistakes that were on him, not the line or the other players

he can only get better and we know he has the drive and talent to make that happen

Cousins might be better suited to making things work right now and he's showing a lot of promise but he's not going to be our starting QB in 2014

not while we have RG3
The Redskins need to have a plan for how to put a product on the field that will be consistently competitive and they need to stick with that plan - it's taken years to become as bad as we are and it will be years getting out of it

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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby Deadskins » Sat Dec 21, 2013 11:08 am

OldSchool wrote:I think Griffin will benefit from watching Cousins make the offense work and be motivated to listen and learn.

That's the first thing you've said that I actually agree with.
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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby SkinsJock » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:48 pm

Deadskins wrote:
OldSchool wrote:I think Griffin will benefit from watching Cousins make the offense work and be motivated to listen and learn.

That's the first thing you've said that I actually agree with.

thanks - I don't read his posts so I would not have seen that ...

I agree that Robert is going to be really motivated to get a lot better this off season ... after all, that's who he is

He'd better be motivated - he got benched BECAUSE of how he was playing and Mike felt that Cousins would give the offense a spark ...

Robert needs to work very hard to be a lot better than what we saw this season - he's our starting QB - we need to see him play at a much better level
The Redskins need to have a plan for how to put a product on the field that will be consistently competitive and they need to stick with that plan - it's taken years to become as bad as we are and it will be years getting out of it

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Re: Cousins Is Just Better...

Postby Neo » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:58 pm

One thing I will say, I really admired Kirk's humility at the press conference. He got specific on what his weakness was in the game, and that he was going to focus on fixing it.

It was pretty moving to me; I'd be willing to block for him with my life...that level of humility and honesty commands loyalty by itself.

Nothing against Bob, he's our guy. I just think the media, and the team (I don't buy into there being bad blood with Griffin), will respect Griffin more. The more this team "loves" RG3, the more they will bleed for him.
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