A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby PulpExposure » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:50 pm

Countertrey wrote:I suspect that, had Griffin been Snyder's pick... you'd have seen Shanahan walk. I have little doubt that there is some mechanism in his contract that defined owner interference, and which gave Shanahan the right to void, should it occur. Griffin was Shanahan's selection... and it will, ultimately, prove to be the correct one. Cousins pick was exactly what Shanahan said it was... an unexpected quality bonus. It will also prove to be the correct choice.

Shanahan will be back. Griffin will learn to be a superior quarterback... and Cousins will turn into several talented players at positions of need. The team will be free of the Mara travesty... which will turn into OTHER talented players at positions of need.

This will be a superior team next year. Please feel free to bookmark this post... trust me... there are a few that I have bookmarked, as well...


Perhaps its the optimist in me, but I agree. Then again, perhaps it's the realist in me saying that it can't get much worse :)

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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby DarthMonk » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:31 pm

chiefhog44 wrote:Here's how this unfolded. Griffin was drafted by Shannahan with a push from Snyder, but ultimately, Shannahan pulled the trigger.

Griffin got hurt, and came back too early and spent too much time in the offseason doing commercials and documentaries. He got too big for his britches and the team started seeing him as an entitled diva. He rushed his recovery and came back in week one. Shannahan had "concerns" about him coming back which were never shared. Those concerns could have been the following A) he was concerned Robert was not 100% B) he was concerned that he could get hurt again C) he was concerned that he pushed his recovery based on sponsorship D) he was ultimately concerned that IF he was not ready to play, that Shannahan wouldn't be able to make a switch to Cousins because of mandates by Snyder.

As time went on, it became clear to the coaching staff that Griffin wasn't making decisions fast enough in the pocket. The only way they could stay competitive in games was to run the read option, which Griffins dad was saying no to. He was not reading defenses, while missing wide open receivers. The coaches were showing these plays on film day to show the team that they were not all at fault for giving up sacks, the offense not moving, and receivers not getting balls. Players took notice. Griffin requested that they not show the film because he was embarrassment. Garcon quietly told the truth about how Griffin was not the same. That the passing game sucked. Griffin started challenging Garcon to races and other BS, when, had he just looked in the mirror and dropped his ego, Griffin would have realized that he was in fact, not as good as last year. He never took accountability and the players took notice. Kyle was trying to get Griffin to realize that he was in fact accountable for the lack of the production and the relationship started to crack, and I wouldn't be surprised if Griffin blamed Kyle for his role in the teams failures by exposing his poor play to the team.

Time went on and losing compounded the problem and the relationship between Kyle and Griffin continued to break apart. I truly feel that Kyle wants to win and that's all he's concerned with. He's all business but that tough love attitude is counter to what Griffin needs. Griffin needs someone to stroke his ego and Kyle wasn't doing it. Then Mike stepped in and benched Griffin. Kirk comes in and runs the offense MUCH better. And now, I really think Shannahan is worried that he he has a MAJOR quarterback controversy brewing. He was playing this down in the presser, but if he wasn't worried about it, then he would be praising Kirk's performance. Mike always does that...downplays the things he is thinking about, and hypes up things that are not good. He's the master of the smokescreen. Reference John Beck and any injury that he's reported on over the last 4 years. Not only that, but I think the players support Mike more than they do Griffin. You hear that in comments made by guys like Moss who calls Griffin out for not being a leader. I think these players want Mike back, and that is a BIG problem. It's Mike and the players versus Griffin, Snyder and Griffins parents.

Now you hear Shannahan saying that he will return IF he can run the team his way. What does that really mean? I think Kyle is going to be allowed to interview with other teams. He's going to move on next year. Haslett may be replaced. I would put that at 50%. I think Wade Phillips will be brought in and I would love that. Kubiack will be hired as an OC and Rick Dennison will be brought in as O-Line coach. But ultimately, what did Shannahan mean when he said, I want to coach here if I can coach the team my way? I think that means that when all's said and done, the mandate will be to Snyder that he's going to play the best QB, no matter what and there will be absolutely NO contact between him and Griffin. Griffin needs to make it without the perceived relationship with Snyder. The players have to trust that Shannahan will play THE best player. And if Snyder is not on board with that, then he's going to have to fire him. Even Gruden alluded to it on Monday night football. He said that IF a new coach comes in here, that new coach may just pick Cousins to start over Griffin...careful for what you wish for...but we all know, as do the players, that the owner won't let that happen and will be a prerequisite for the next coach. Is that really in our best interest?

I think we have a QB situation brewing here. You're already hearing noise about how QB competition is healthy in Shannahan's presser yesterday. This is right after it was said that there is no QB controversy.... And competition is VERY healthy for Griffin and for this franchise. If worried about losing his job, I think it will do one of two things...expose him as an entitled kid, or push him to be a better player. And if he can't handle the competition, it wouldn't surprise me AT ALL, if Griffin is traded. And although his upside is better than almost anyone out there, his attitude is what I think is going to hold this kid back if it doesn't change. So it's for this reason, I made a call last week that I thought Mike is coming back next year, and I support it. He is going to get Snyder to back the hell out of the entire picture, and that's THE only way this franchise returns to greatness


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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:38 pm

DarthMonk wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:Here's how this unfolded. Griffin was drafted by Shannahan with a push from Snyder, but ultimately, Shannahan pulled the trigger.

Griffin got hurt, and came back too early and spent too much time in the offseason doing commercials and documentaries. He got too big for his britches and the team started seeing him as an entitled diva. He rushed his recovery and came back in week one. Shannahan had "concerns" about him coming back which were never shared. Those concerns could have been the following A) he was concerned Robert was not 100% B) he was concerned that he could get hurt again C) he was concerned that he pushed his recovery based on sponsorship D) he was ultimately concerned that IF he was not ready to play, that Shannahan wouldn't be able to make a switch to Cousins because of mandates by Snyder.

As time went on, it became clear to the coaching staff that Griffin wasn't making decisions fast enough in the pocket. The only way they could stay competitive in games was to run the read option, which Griffins dad was saying no to. He was not reading defenses, while missing wide open receivers. The coaches were showing these plays on film day to show the team that they were not all at fault for giving up sacks, the offense not moving, and receivers not getting balls. Players took notice. Griffin requested that they not show the film because he was embarrassment. Garcon quietly told the truth about how Griffin was not the same. That the passing game sucked. Griffin started challenging Garcon to races and other BS, when, had he just looked in the mirror and dropped his ego, Griffin would have realized that he was in fact, not as good as last year. He never took accountability and the players took notice. Kyle was trying to get Griffin to realize that he was in fact accountable for the lack of the production and the relationship started to crack, and I wouldn't be surprised if Griffin blamed Kyle for his role in the teams failures by exposing his poor play to the team.

Time went on and losing compounded the problem and the relationship between Kyle and Griffin continued to break apart. I truly feel that Kyle wants to win and that's all he's concerned with. He's all business but that tough love attitude is counter to what Griffin needs. Griffin needs someone to stroke his ego and Kyle wasn't doing it. Then Mike stepped in and benched Griffin. Kirk comes in and runs the offense MUCH better. And now, I really think Shannahan is worried that he he has a MAJOR quarterback controversy brewing. He was playing this down in the presser, but if he wasn't worried about it, then he would be praising Kirk's performance. Mike always does that...downplays the things he is thinking about, and hypes up things that are not good. He's the master of the smokescreen. Reference John Beck and any injury that he's reported on over the last 4 years. Not only that, but I think the players support Mike more than they do Griffin. You hear that in comments made by guys like Moss who calls Griffin out for not being a leader. I think these players want Mike back, and that is a BIG problem. It's Mike and the players versus Griffin, Snyder and Griffins parents.

Now you hear Shannahan saying that he will return IF he can run the team his way. What does that really mean? I think Kyle is going to be allowed to interview with other teams. He's going to move on next year. Haslett may be replaced. I would put that at 50%. I think Wade Phillips will be brought in and I would love that. Kubiack will be hired as an OC and Rick Dennison will be brought in as O-Line coach. But ultimately, what did Shannahan mean when he said, I want to coach here if I can coach the team my way? I think that means that when all's said and done, the mandate will be to Snyder that he's going to play the best QB, no matter what and there will be absolutely NO contact between him and Griffin. Griffin needs to make it without the perceived relationship with Snyder. The players have to trust that Shannahan will play THE best player. And if Snyder is not on board with that, then he's going to have to fire him. Even Gruden alluded to it on Monday night football. He said that IF a new coach comes in here, that new coach may just pick Cousins to start over Griffin...careful for what you wish for...but we all know, as do the players, that the owner won't let that happen and will be a prerequisite for the next coach. Is that really in our best interest?

I think we have a QB situation brewing here. You're already hearing noise about how QB competition is healthy in Shannahan's presser yesterday. This is right after it was said that there is no QB controversy.... And competition is VERY healthy for Griffin and for this franchise. If worried about losing his job, I think it will do one of two things...expose him as an entitled kid, or push him to be a better player. And if he can't handle the competition, it wouldn't surprise me AT ALL, if Griffin is traded. And although his upside is better than almost anyone out there, his attitude is what I think is going to hold this kid back if it doesn't change. So it's for this reason, I made a call last week that I thought Mike is coming back next year, and I support it. He is going to get Snyder to back the hell out of the entire picture, and that's THE only way this franchise returns to greatness


Strong.


I agree … except for all the parts that are so far fetched and so obviously biased …

but …. 'strong' is an apt description … even with all it's obvious flaws :lol:

and … a great waste of time too ...
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "He has the ability and the desire, he just has to do it.” - J Gruden

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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby DarthMonk » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:48 am

^^^

A lot could be wrong but none of it seems far fetched to me.

We are all doing a lot of guessing but it all fits the facts and fits together too.
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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby SkinsJock » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:00 am

DarthMonk wrote: A lot could be wrong but none of it seems far fetched to me.

We are all doing a lot of guessing but it all fits the facts and fits together too.


To summarize - 'a lot' of the post is wrong - and while 'none of it seems far fetched' to you most of it is to me

I agree that there is 'a lot of guessing' going on but it's being "presented" or "reported" as 'facts' and actually requires some imagination to 'fit together'

You are exaggerating when you claim 'it all fits the facts and fits together' - that is NOT a 'fact'

but apart from that - it's a 'strong' piece of work :lol:

there is a lot of guessing going on but it's being pushed and hyped beyond credibility

IMO most of the stuff is just BS - that's my My 2 cents
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "He has the ability and the desire, he just has to do it.” - J Gruden

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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby DarthMonk » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:10 am

SkinsJock wrote:
You are exaggerating when you claim 'it all fits the facts and fits together' - that is NOT a 'fact'


FITS the facts. Did not say it was factual. It also fits together.

Please find a fact contradicted by his scenario. Please find an inconsistency in his scenario.

I know you can find stuff you disagree with. That's different.
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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby DarthMonk » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:50 am

I was gonna start a similar thread and call it “Timeline.”

My take, mostly fact, with some opinion sprinkled in:

We make blockbuster trade to acquire Luck or Griff. This went down in one of three ways.
a) Prime mover was Shanny with Dan going along somewhere between reluctantly and enthusiastically.
b) Prime mover was Dan with Shanny going along somewhere between reluctantly and enthusiastically.
c) They were on the same page from the get-go.

Griff has rookie-of-the-year season. He is one of the most accurate QBs in the league - #5 in completion % and 2nd only to Brady in TD/Int ratio. This all suddenly changes when …

Griff’s knee buckles untouched but TD pass making it 14-0 helps further cloud Shanny’s judgement as game unfolds.

Griff starts “inexplicably” missing wide open guys while moving terribly.

Dropbacks after 14-0:
Sack
Inc
Int
3 yd
5 yd
0 yd
Inc
Sack
Sack
Inc
8 yd
Gimp run
Inc
Inc
Knee destroyed

That's the super-accurate, extremely elusive, most electrifying talent in the league going 4 out of 15 drop backs to wide open guys, for 16 yds, a gimp run, and 3 sacks.

Anticipated offseason where Kyle and Griff work on other half of the playbook disappears. Griff works tail off to rehab knee. Super-ironic “Operation Patience” becomes “Operation Rush Back.” Shanny’s semi-excusable gaffe of not replacing Griff with Cousins against Seattle (heat of the moment) becomes inexcusable start of Griff in game 1 in spite of poor preparation and obvious lack of mobility even though Shanny had 8 months to come to a rational decision.

I think Shanny suffered from something I’ll call “Griffin Fever.” It was exacerbated by Peterson Syndrome. It makes the victim delirious and clouds his judgement. The fever didn’t break until we were mathematically eliminated from playoff contention and then endured multiple sacks on a bad field against KC. Rationality has returned. The prime objective now is not to win, but rather, to develop Cousins while Griff finally gets some humble pie.

Looking forward, I’m thinking Shanny and both QBs stay … and the best man wins.
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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby chiefhog44 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:51 am

SkinsJock wrote:
and … a great waste of time too ...


Listen, this is a blog. I posted something. Who are you with 12 thousand posts to tell me that one of mine is a waste of time. :roll: Tap the breaks
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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby chiefhog44 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:01 am

DarthMonk wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:
You are exaggerating when you claim 'it all fits the facts and fits together' - that is NOT a 'fact'


FITS the facts. Did not say it was factual. It also fits together.

Please find a fact contradicted by his scenario. Please find an inconsistency in his scenario.

I know you can find stuff you disagree with. That's different.


Listen to Fletchers comments yesterday about changes. He basically said that changes need to be made, we're 3-11, that's a given that changes will be made. But removing Mike Shannahan is not one of them. That either means that the coordinators suck, or the player whos locker is next to his (Griffin) needs to change. I'm waiting for the follow up questions to that today. It will be VERY revealing. Also listen to Shannahans comments when asked whether Griffin is tough to coach or not, he said danced around the question and said something like, every young player is tough to coach. This is very different than getting coached in college and it takes these young players some time to figure that out. Read between the lines and he's tough to coach.

Proof is in the pudding. I never used to listen to any of the reports or sources because, well, pride told me not to. But I started to after listening to Brian Mitchell one day when he said that there's much more truth in those stories than anyone realizes. Where there's smoke there's fire. I'm not that far off I can tell you that. It's logical (adds up) and I appreciate you mentioning that. :wink:
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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby SkinsJock » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:27 pm

DarthMonk wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:You are exaggerating when you claim 'it all fits the facts and fits together' - that is NOT a 'fact'


FITS the facts. Did not say it was factual. It also fits together.

Please find a fact contradicted by his scenario. Please find an inconsistency in his scenario.

I know you can find stuff you disagree with. That's different.


the devil is in the detail - it "fits the facts and fits together" - it's a little like a lot of the reporting thats been going on here lately - some feel it basically all must be true in that it 'fits the facts' - IMO most of the stuff that is being reported "fits the facts" but is NOT true - it's STRETCHING the truth to suit an opinion
OR
most of the stuff as it's reported is really NOT TRUE even though it conveniently "fits the facts" :D



I'm so glad I now know how to come back to this insightful thread :twisted:
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "He has the ability and the desire, he just has to do it.” - J Gruden

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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby SkinsJock » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Since Mike took over here, Snyder has basically let him manage the franchise - Dan and Mike actually have a pretty good working relationship because Mike keeps Dan informed about what is going on - Dan is not involved in any way that can be construed as 'meddling' like he used to - where contact between Dan and the players and the coaches used to be an issue, it is not now because the players know who is in charge here and Dan reinforces that

Snyder is now able to enjoy 'being the owner' around the players because they all know who makes the decisions that affects what goes on 'between the lines'

Mike is not a players coach but he has not lost the locker room as has been widely speculated - on the contrary, the players may not like a lot of what is going on but they know that Mike is just trying to win football games and has the best interest of the franchise in what he does and the decisions he makes

A BIG shake up is needed - Dan and Mike understand what's best for the franchise - there will be coaching changes and some players will be added to the mix

Mike wants to make this franchise be successful and Dan will support him …. for now


This mess is what happens when you have a HC that has not bothered to mitigate the 'reports' that go with a franchise having a VERY disappointing season
Last edited by SkinsJock on Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby StorminMormon86 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:31 am

I don't think Shanahan has lost the locker room like these reports and leaks want you to believe. I think it's more likely that the team was fed up of Griffin getting the majority of the attention which may have caused some dissention.

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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:27 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:I don't think Shanahan has lost the locker room like these reports and leaks want you to believe. I think it's more likely that the team was fed up of Griffin getting the majority of the attention which may have caused some dissention.


:D - it's like someone else said here recently - there's a whole lot of stuff being 'reported' and while it's mainly BS and NOT true, it "fits the situation and it's the same old Redskins … so it must be true" ….

from what I've read it seems like Robert has worked really hard with both Kyle, Kirk and the rest of the offense …

Mike is most likely coming back - Kyle will only be back if he and Robert have a good working relationship and trust each other
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "He has the ability and the desire, he just has to do it.” - J Gruden

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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby DarthMonk » Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:22 am

This is fairly definitive:

Link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/mi ... story.html

Excerpt:

For the second time in 26 months, the celebration was on. Snyder, Shanahan and Allen, the team’s general manager, traveled to the Bahamas a month before the 2012 NFL draft, traveling on the owner’s plane and spending a March weekend playing golf. Two years after Snyder got his coach, the Redskins had just orchestrated a trade with the St. Louis Rams to move up four spots in the draft, where they would select Griffin at No. 2 overall.

Shanahan had concerns that Griffin had no experience in a pro-style offense and with the number of draft picks it would take to move up from the draft’s sixth slot to get him, a team official said. But Snyder was sold. Griffin had won the Heisman Trophy at Baylor in 2011, and he was young and black, charismatic and bright, exciting and polished — the perfect fit for Washington and the new Redskins. For Snyder, a lifelong Redskins fan who had grown up to buy the team as a marketing man, Griffin was a dream — and he made no secret of his wishes, according to a team official.

Shanahan, knowing he needed a quarterback, relented. Washington sent three first-round picks and one second-rounder to St. Louis, sealing a deal to move past other clubs searching for a team-altering quarterback. The Redskins again would have their man, this time at the game’s most important position.
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Re: A Summary of how I think the Redskin mess unfolded

Postby SkinsJock » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:21 pm

boy there's a lot of "according to this guy or that guy.... " going on around here :lol:

most of us know that most of those "according to .. " reports we've seen lately are only based on past history here and are a real stretch of the actual truth

almost anything and everything illogical "fits" the profile that is the Redskins under Dan Snyder so why not create it/report it and not give the true source

the only thing you can believe is that Dan Snyder does not have a clue and he will constantly be involved to the detriment of the play on the field

Dan Snyder did support Mike and the FO's decision to make the trade, no doubt - because it was the best deal for the Redskins, not because it was a 'good marketing idea'
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "He has the ability and the desire, he just has to do it.” - J Gruden

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