Let Orakpo go

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:44 pm

Neo wrote:Why not a reasonable contract w/ performance incentives? Elite play = elite money.

The reason for "why not?" is that Orakpo would never sign a deal like that. Incentive-laden contracts are for injury-riddled veterans or risky prospects. Orakpo isn't either of those things, and some team is going to be willing to pay him without making the money dependent on incentives.

If he doesn't like that, its his unspoken acknowledgment that he knows he's lost a step over the past couple years.

I don't think so. It's just highly unusual to make a star player sign an incentive-heavy contract. Guys like Orakpo, who are hitting their prime, are judging contracts by how much of the money is guaranteed, not by how much they could possibly make it they play out of their minds. Don't forget that NFL also stands for Not For Long — he's looking to make his fortune while the getting is good, and I can't blame him.
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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:39 am

If u don't consider playing one full season of the past 4, if that?, injury prone idk what is! Seriously tho, I agree with all your points
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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby RayNAustin » Tue Jan 14, 2014 1:25 am

There are a few considerations in a decision like this ... none involve judging what rak is worth in general terms. The two main issues are, is there a better option at the $$ amount that it will take to resign him .... and ....will paying him prevent addressing other needs. The answer to the second question should be no, given the good cap position now that the penalty is over.

Given the horrible state of the defense, particularly pass defense, the last thing you can afford to do is downgrade, so regardless of $$, either you replace him with better production, or you pay to keep him.

Given the desperate need to upgrade the secondary, you can't upgrade there, and diminish your pass rush, since the two are so interdependent.

Rak may not have achieved that elite status, but he's close, and pass rushers are ALWAYS in short supply and high demand. He's young .. and he can improve, and that's what you do ... pay him, and get him coached up to reach for that next level, and upgrade the secondary, which will also help the pass rushers. If you let him walk, and don't have equal or better to replace him ... you're downgrading a defense that was already bad. That's the wrong direction ... obviously.

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:14 am

RayNAustin wrote:There are a few considerations in a decision like this ... none involve judging what rak is worth in general terms. The two main issues are, is there a better option at the $$ amount that it will take to resign him .... and ....will paying him prevent addressing other needs. The answer to the second question should be no, given the good cap position now that the penalty is over.

Given the horrible state of the defense, particularly pass defense, the last thing you can afford to do is downgrade, so regardless of $$, either you replace him with better production, or you pay to keep him.

Given the desperate need to upgrade the secondary, you can't upgrade there, and diminish your pass rush, since the two are so interdependent.

Rak may not have achieved that elite status, but he's close, and pass rushers are ALWAYS in short supply and high demand. He's young .. and he can improve, and that's what you do ... pay him, and get him coached up to reach for that next level, and upgrade the secondary, which will also help the pass rushers. If you let him walk, and don't have equal or better to replace him ... you're downgrading a defense that was already bad. That's the wrong direction ... obviously.


=D>
+1

Terrific post there brother!

While I find his health a concern, he hasn't let it slow him down to "average" or worse. Proper coaches ought to be able to implement some more moves, like rgiii u can't teach his athleticism but u can hone his skills. I say pay the man and be glad you have one less hole to fill. Rob Jackson is a great back up and when u want the olb to drop into coverage.
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby Deadskins » Tue Jan 14, 2014 7:20 am

RayNAustin wrote:There are a few considerations in a decision like this ... none involve judging what rak is worth in general terms. The two main issues are, is there a better option at the $$ amount that it will take to resign him .... and ....will paying him prevent addressing other needs. The answer to the second question should be no, given the good cap position now that the penalty is over.

Given the horrible state of the defense, particularly pass defense, the last thing you can afford to do is downgrade, so regardless of $$, either you replace him with better production, or you pay to keep him.

Given the desperate need to upgrade the secondary, you can't upgrade there, and diminish your pass rush, since the two are so interdependent.

Rak may not have achieved that elite status, but he's close, and pass rushers are ALWAYS in short supply and high demand. He's young .. and he can improve, and that's what you do ... pay him, and get him coached up to reach for that next level, and upgrade the secondary, which will also help the pass rushers. If you let him walk, and don't have equal or better to replace him ... you're downgrading a defense that was already bad. That's the wrong direction ... obviously.

Agreed on all counts.
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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby SkinsJock » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:50 am

good NFL people make player decisions based on what they have, what they need and what is available

we have people like this in charge here now and making these type of decisions

seems pretty obvious in Orakpo's case .... pay the man

we also need to have all the players we have be 'evaluated' this way all the time






now if we could just 'evaluate' the stupid owner as well ... :D
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby riggofan » Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:25 am

Irn-Bru wrote:If he doesn't like that, its his unspoken acknowledgment that he knows he's lost a step over the past couple years.

I don't think so. It's just highly unusual to make a star player sign an incentive-heavy contract. Guys like Orakpo, who are hitting their prime, are judging contracts by how much of the money is guaranteed, not by how much they could possibly make it they play out of their minds. Don't forget that NFL also stands for Not For Long — he's looking to make his fortune while the getting is good, and I can't blame him.[/quote]

Nailed it. The man is only going to have so many opportunities to negotiate a contract like this while in his prime. I hope it works out to keep him, but I won't begrudge him for trying to get paid.

My question: I know the Redskins have often had an advantage over other teams by paying high signing bonuses, guaranteed money. I don't totally understand the cap implications of that, but is it still something we can leverage in negotiations with a player like Rak?

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby mastdark81 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:28 pm

You have to franchise Orakpo. This does several things in the best interest of the team.

1. If you feel Orakpo is worth it, this guarantees he stays on the team. This ensure that he does not get a good feel of his value is out in the market, which is probably more than we want to pay him per year. He can then negotiate throughout the 2014 year and this adds extra motivation to get the long term deal. If there is any year that you put a "franchised" salary on the book it's this year, since our salary cap penalty is finally lifted.

2. For those that like Orakpo but do not feel he is worth paying, franchising him also provides value. Two first round picks is the asking price for a franchised player, and we both know he won't get that. However, the front office could negotiate a deal to get a 2nd rd pick in 2014 and 2015 2nd rd pick in exchange for Orakpo, for example.

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:10 pm

If Haslett and Jay really want Orakpo, we have an FO that will find a way to keep him ...

If he does not want to play here, he should be allowed to leave ...

this will work itself out - we need a group of guys playing well together not a bunch of 'star players' getting paid more than they're worth
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

HAIL


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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby riggofan » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:19 pm

I'm sure you guys saw this earlier this week, but relevant to this discussion:
http://www.csnwashington.com/football-w ... -re-signed

“I think ‘Rak is, obviously, a priority [as well as] Perry,” Haslett said, speaking at the Senior Bowl. “And we’ve got some other guys on defense: Chris Baker did a good job [as did] D-Hall.”


Thought it was interesting the way it was worded. Not just that he wanted Rak back, but that he considers him a priority.

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:54 am

Is it just me.or did he look slim in the pro bowl? Can't say he did great in the coverage dept.. he did lay wood on Murray.. after he missed and it was in the endzone of course lol
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby fredp45 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:52 am

We need to keep Orakpo...the ability to pressure the qb is a must in the NFL or a defense isn't elite.

I'd give him a huge signing bonus and a 5 year contract to spread it over...

$25 mil signing bonus over 5 years, with reasonable salaries in years 1 and 2 (2-3 mil a year). If year one is 2 mil his cap hit = 7 mil in year 1. If his salary in year 2 is 3 mil, his cap hit = 8 mil, both very doable.

Year 3 salary should be manageable too. Years 4 & 5 will be ugly. However, by then we either redo it or cut and run.

Also, keep Jackson.

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby riggofan » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:44 am

fredp45 wrote:We need to keep Orakpo...the ability to pressure the qb is a must in the NFL or a defense isn't elite.


Good point. I think people forget that is what led us to go crazy paying Albert Haynesworth. We had some really terrible years with no pass rush at all.

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby SkinsJock » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:13 am

we've been badly managed - that's no longer the case

these guys will keep the players they really need and add the players they really need - we used to just add players that made other teams 'good'

now we'll see players being drafted and brought in as free agents that might not 'look' as great but in fact, make our team better

this not fantasy football or the pro bowl team - this is about players making each other better and coaches getting the most out of them




I'd be surprised if Haslett does not make sure the FO brings back Orakpo to play with Riley, Kerrigan and Jackson
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

HAIL


Currently 50-41

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