Bruce Allen as a Drafter

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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby Redskin in Canada » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:45 am

UK Skins Fan wrote:On the second question, why would he get any credit if it was Shanahan running the entire show?

The theory goes that

1) Mike Shanahan receives ALL the blame for his failure and the collective failure of staff around him to bring a disaster during the last season; and

2) Bruce Allen gets ALL the credit for the good Draft choices and Free Agent signings since day one of BOTH their arrival in Washington.

My goodness, I am not an apologist for Mike Shanahan, he trusted and BROUGHT the RIGHT man to manage the cap, his original job, but BROUGHT the WRONG power hungry politician to Washington, his most important failure. However, Mike has ALWAYS been given credit throughout his career for at least ONE THING:

Drafting good RBs and creating one-cut zone run schemes which allow them to flourish. Alfred Morris was a Mike Shanahan hire.

The rest of you can stop this nonsense of Bruce Allen being given credit as a good personnel guy. He never was and he is not now.
Daniel Snyder has defined incompetence, failure and greed to true Washington Redskins fans over the last decade. Stay away from football operations !!!

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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby Redskin in Canada » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:01 am

Countertrey wrote:I just don't get this... As long as Allen is aware of his weaknesses, and ensures that he has sound advisors, that's really all that can be asked of any football exec. Brown is extremely well respected in the business... there's every reason to believe that the Scouting department is now a strength...

In fact, it has been an improvement from the days of Vinny and Dan, yes. But this same scouting department was working under Mike Shanahan the hated failure and scapegoat of this disaster.

Read on:

Bruce Allen takes control of Redskins with the slickness, and qualifications, of a politician

Countertrey wrote:And, you can't do a damned thing about the owner. Other than the reported relationship with Bob, there is really no indication that Snyder has interfered since the arrival of Shanahan. Why would you continue to wring your hands over this? If he is out of the football business, that's great... but if not, just what the hell are you going to do about it? Stomp your feet? Pout? Burn your McNabb jersey? =;

What to do? Me?

Well, for one, I will develop REALISTIC expectations about another cycle of announcements, expectations and then reality check with failure and new firings. That is all.

What might or will other fans do? I do not know but imagine the signs back in the stadium, complains in all forms of free media not controlled by Dan, and several other creative ways. Most will vote with their feet and stop buying tickets and merchandise. Some might even walk away from football for a while.

Others will regard these actions as unworthy of true fans. Hope is eternal and they feel that the job of a fan is cheer NO MATTER WHAT ... and since nobody can assure exactly what the future will bring, they will argue, you do not know until you know ... OVER and OVER and OVER again. :roll:

Milking the unending loyalty of a historic NFL franchise is a GREAT business. In fact, there is no motivation to sell ... until the cow runs out of milk. :(
Daniel Snyder has defined incompetence, failure and greed to true Washington Redskins fans over the last decade. Stay away from football operations !!!

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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby UK Skins Fan » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:14 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote:On the second question, why would he get any credit if it was Shanahan running the entire show?

The theory goes that

1) Mike Shanahan receives ALL the blame for his failure and the collective failure of staff around him to bring a disaster during the last season; and

2) Bruce Allen gets ALL the credit for the good Draft choices and Free Agent signings since day one of BOTH their arrival in Washington.

It's a good theory, except that nobody believes it! We might all WANT to believe that the boil has been lanced by the removal of Shanahan, but I don't think there's anybody sane here who is willing to give Allen or Snyder a stamp of approval. I think Shanahan's getting a fair share of blame, but he certainly isn't getting all of it. Not from me, anyway.
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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby Jeremy81 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:23 pm

so if morocco brown is so respected around the league, and he's in charge of making the draft board. and if bruce allen knows his limitations...then why don't you give brown the final say on who we draft and sign and leave it to bruce to sign these guys?

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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby UK Skins Fan » Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:43 pm

Jeremy81 wrote:so if morocco brown is so respected around the league, and he's in charge of making the draft board. and if bruce allen knows his limitations...then why don't you give brown the final say on who we draft and sign and leave it to bruce to sign these guys?

Given that Brown is our supposed draft expert, and Campbell is the free agent man, I guess there has to be one single authority that pulls it all together. You can't have two separate strands of the player personnel function operating independently.

I'd rather we had one single "proper" GM making all the decisions, rather than this slightly bizarre three headed monster, but the Redskins seem to quite deliberately choose to do things differently to everybody else.
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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby Jeremy81 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:11 pm

UK Skins Fan wrote:
Jeremy81 wrote:so if morocco brown is so respected around the league, and he's in charge of making the draft board. and if bruce allen knows his limitations...then why don't you give brown the final say on who we draft and sign and leave it to bruce to sign these guys?

Given that Brown is our supposed draft expert, and Campbell is the free agent man, I guess there has to be one single authority that pulls it all together. You can't have two separate strands of the player personnel function operating independently.

I'd rather we had one single "proper" GM making all the decisions, rather than this slightly bizarre three headed monster, but the Redskins seem to quite deliberately choose to do things differently to everybody else.


well I guess that makes sense if brown and Campbell have the same input in their respective "expertise". if Campbell is the free agent guy and brown is the draft guy then I guess it makes sense that allen makes the final call for both. but I agree with you completely. get a real gm who has NO "limitations" to make the final say. but whatever, this is better then it has been

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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby rskin72 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:50 pm

Well, I do not think Allen's main job will be as drafter. As others have mentioned, think the bulk of input will be provided by Brown, Campbell, other scouts, and the HC. Think Allen will be invovled more in cap moves, overall Redskin name brand revival and fan experiences at FEDEX.

There are a lot of ways to crack the "winning franchise" nut in the NFL. This one may work out just fine...especially considering all the NFL contacts that Allen has.

And, at the end of the day...what are fans like us going to do? Band together and buy the team? I will say that so far I am pleased with what has happened after the release of Mike. I do not see a repeat of the Zorn experience by Allen. Whether or not his pick for HC works out is another issue, but all he can do is perform due diligence and get the best HC that he feels can move out team forward over the next several seasons.
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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby Countertrey » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:10 pm

Jeremy81 wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote:
Jeremy81 wrote:so if morocco brown is so respected around the league, and he's in charge of making the draft board. and if bruce allen knows his limitations...then why don't you give brown the final say on who we draft and sign and leave it to bruce to sign these guys?

Given that Brown is our supposed draft expert, and Campbell is the free agent man, I guess there has to be one single authority that pulls it all together. You can't have two separate strands of the player personnel function operating independently.

I'd rather we had one single "proper" GM making all the decisions, rather than this slightly bizarre three headed monster, but the Redskins seem to quite deliberately choose to do things differently to everybody else.


well I guess that makes sense if brown and Campbell have the same input in their respective "expertise". if Campbell is the free agent guy and brown is the draft guy then I guess it makes sense that allen makes the final call for both. but I agree with you completely. get a real gm who has NO "limitations" to make the final say. but whatever, this is better then it has been
Ummm... ALL GM's have limitations. Problems occur when you have a GM who doesn't acknowledge his. I'm fine with what appears to be the current trend at Redskins Park.
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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby Jeremy81 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:26 pm

Ummm... ALL GM's have limitations. Problems occur when you have a GM who doesn't acknowledge his. I'm fine with what appears to be the current trend at Redskins Park.[/quote]

ummm...ok, all GM's have limitations. but I don't want my GM's major limitation to be on player personnel. like I said, I like the situation better the way it is now than it has been, but I believe it could be better...just my opinion

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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby Countertrey » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:46 pm

Jeremy81 wrote:
Countertrey wrote:Ummm... ALL GM's have limitations. Problems occur when you have a GM who doesn't acknowledge his. I'm fine with what appears to be the current trend at Redskins Park.


ummm...ok, all GM's have limitations. but I don't want my GM's major limitation to be on player personnel. like I said, I like the situation better the way it is now than it has been, but I believe it could be better...just my opinion
I'm sure "the Danny" will consider your concerns...
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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby riggofan » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:15 pm

I just have to laugh over the idea that any of us here (or in the media for that matter) legitimately know anything about what Bruce Allen knows, what his limitations are, how the draft process with the Redskins works or will work, what Morocco Brown's role is, what Scott Campbell's role is, etc;

This just seems like a silly thing for people to opine or obsess over. There isn't anybody out there offering an informed opinion.

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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby SkinsJock » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:45 pm

riggofan wrote:I just have to laugh over the idea that any of us here (or in the media for that matter) legitimately know anything about what Bruce Allen knows, what his limitations are, how the draft process with the Redskins works or will work, what Morocco Brown's role is, what Scott Campbell's role is, etc;

This just seems like a silly thing for people to opine or obsess over. There isn't anybody out there offering an informed opinion.


well said - there are a number of posters here that don't have a clue about what's really going on - and I'll include you and I - that fact does not stop them from making up stuff because "it fits" what they think is going on

the BS 'reports and theories' about our franchise is not an exclusive property of the DC media
We are very fortunate to have Kirk Cousins but Griffin has a huge upside IMO

Robert needs to continue to get better and to do that he needs time on the field - hopefully sooner than later

HAIL


Week 2 - 17-15

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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby Jeremy81 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:57 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
riggofan wrote:I just have to laugh over the idea that any of us here (or in the media for that matter) legitimately know anything about what Bruce Allen knows, what his limitations are, how the draft process with the Redskins works or will work, what Morocco Brown's role is, what Scott Campbell's role is, etc;

This just seems like a silly thing for people to opine or obsess over. There isn't anybody out there offering an informed opinion.


well said - there are a number of posters here that don't have a clue about what's really going on - and I'll include you and I - that fact does not stop them from making up stuff because "it fits" what they think is going on

the BS 'reports and theories' about our franchise is not an exclusive property of the DC media


of course no one knows what's really going on. this is a message board. the people that really know what's going on aren't on these things. you and I both don't have a clue what's really going on. but that's never stopped you from giving an opinion. that's what this thread is for. to give commentary. I don't think anyone is losing any sleep on how the redskins front office is being run, I know I'm not. but writing on a message board about how I would want the FO run, doesn't mean I think I know more than anyone else on the matter, just means I wanted to give my opinion. what's the issue here?

as much as I DONT know if the reports and theories from the media are true, you DONT know that they aren't

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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby Countertrey » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:03 pm

Jeremy81 wrote:
of course no one knows what's really going on. this is a message board. the people that really know what's going on aren't on these things. you and I both don't have a clue what's really going on. but that's never stopped you from giving an opinion. that's what this thread is for. to give commentary. I don't think anyone is losing any sleep on how the redskins front office is being run, I know I'm not. but writing on a message board about how I would want the FO run, doesn't mean I think I know more than anyone else on the matter, just means I wanted to give my opinion. what's the issue here?

as much as I DONT know if the reports and theories from the media are true, you DONT know that they aren't

sooo... how do you decide which "reports and theories" are credible, and which are pure bunk?
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Re: Bruce Allen as a Drafter

Postby SkinsJock » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:22 pm

Jeremy81 wrote:of course no one knows what's really going on. this is a message board. the people that really know what's going on aren't on these things. you and I both don't have a clue what's really going on. but that's never stopped you from giving an opinion. that's what this thread is for, to give commentary. I don't think anyone is losing any sleep on how the redskins front office is being run, I know I'm not. but writing on a message board about how I would want the FO run, doesn't mean I think I know more than anyone else on the matter, just means I wanted to give my opinion. what's the issue here?

as much as I DONT know if the reports and theories from the media are true, you DONT know that they aren't


Nobody (especially you and I) has a clue about what's really happening - but we do know that the DC media will most likely 'create' information about the Redskins and we do know that most all of that is 'reported' by the media and some fans here is done in a way that is anti Dan Snyder and anti the Redskins

now I'm not a Dan Snyder fan by any means but he has changed a lot since Mike came

I like how many fans here are being shown that their thoughts & opinions about the Redskins and Dan Snyder are not factual
We are very fortunate to have Kirk Cousins but Griffin has a huge upside IMO

Robert needs to continue to get better and to do that he needs time on the field - hopefully sooner than later

HAIL


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