Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:24 pm

I'm not 'giving' Snyder "another chance" - not after the damage he did

however - I am comfortable pointing out that from what we've seen and heard, Dan Snyder, is no longer managing this franchise

He is still responsible for the mess we are in and that does not change just because he's given up control of the franchise hirings and player acquisitions

now, he may be in contact with members of the Redskins but that has nothing to do with what is happening between the lines on Sundays

I don't care what the media thinks about Dan Snyder - they are certainly very biased against anything to do with this franchise
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

Hail to the Redskins

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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:27 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:Love to view the compassion and love for Dan Snyder in this thread ... love to read the excuses and promises for personal change ... love to read in the article the good things those in the NFL who want to be in his pocket say about him ... :)

ONLY problem is: HE HAS NOT CHANGED. Nobody can take away the stripes out of a tiger either. As most of you say: IT IS WHAT IT IS. HE IS WHO HE IS.

Once the next failure HC arrives, there will be others saying "Dan is really trying" or "Dan is not afraid to spend" or "Dan is changing" or better yet, "Dan HAS changed" ... would be funny if it was not sad.

I feel the article makes an effort to be balanced and quotes people on both sides of the divide. HOWEVER, for as long as all we get from Daniel Snyder is FAILURE and we get it OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and ... OVER AGAIN. That is the PROOF of NO CHANGE.

Some of you confuse loyalty to the Skins with a sincere desire to give this guy yet another chance. You are wasting your time. The Skins are a VERY PROFITABLE organization in the spreadsheet. All he needs to do is keep on selling snake-oil, smoke and mirrors. Propaganda works. Particularly when we would like to believe it for the sake of our favourite team.


I understand what you are saying. Question.... Have you ever changed at all in your life? I would guess that most people go through quite a few changes. Has anyone in your life ever persuaded you to act different? I know I have made mistakes and learned from it and even had people tell me so. This will continue I am sure. That is just me I suppose.

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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:01 pm

I do not trust Dan Snyder and I do not think he has changed at all ..

where RiC and I differ is that I think the main reason the Redskins did not do well the past few seasons was because of Mike Shanahan
Mike wanted 'control', Dan gave it to him and he did not make it work

the reason we're in this mess is because of Dan Snyder - not Mike Shanahan

I'm hoping that Dan continues to let NFL guys like Bruce and the FO manage this franchise and try to get it out of the mess that he created
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

Hail to the Redskins

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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby Bishop Hammer » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:26 am

Neo wrote:The Washington Post is all about Redskins articles volume. They've been the leading news outlet for posting about the name change.

I am getting closer to just boycotting them altogether.


I stop reading that rag years ago.
I don't have to sell my soul,
He's already in me,
I don't need to sell my soul,
He's already in me.
I wanna be adored
I wanna be adored.

Stone Roses
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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby PulpExposure » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:36 am

SkinsJock wrote:I do not trust Dan Snyder and I do not think he has changed at all ..

where RiC and I differ is that I think the main reason the Redskins did not do well the past few seasons was because of Mike Shanahan
Mike wanted 'control', Dan gave it to him and he did not make it work

the reason we're in this mess is because of Dan Snyder - not Mike Shanahan

I'm hoping that Dan continues to let NFL guys like Bruce and the FO manage this franchise and try to get it out of the mess that he created


There's quite a bit of evidence Snyder has changed over his tenure. He let Shanahan have complete control (written into his contract) for 4 full years; and he fired Vinny Cerrato. Remember that while he gave Schottenheimer control for one year, he fired him because he couldn't stand it. It's pretty evident Snyder was okay with Shanahan having control, but NOT with him having such a horrific record.

And I completely disagree. Whereas a lot of the previous issues were due to Snyder, this mess I fully leave at the feet of Mike Shanahan. Think of how bad the record has been, and how our team lacks overall talent. Since Shanahan had full control, how can you blame Snyder for the lack of talent? He didn't pick the players. Shanahan also demonstrated, multiple times, that he gave up. Remember how last year, after the loss against the Panthers that dropped us to 3-6, he basically threw in the towel saying "Obviously, we're not out of it statistically, but now we find out what type of character we've got and how guys keep on fighting through the rest of the season"? And then he again threw in the towel this year, and started the toxic leaking about how he was thinking of leaving after last season?

A good head coach keeps his ship buttoned down. Shanahan let his ship leak...all over the place. A good head coach doesn't meddle with his coordinators (see what he pulled with Haslett), or hire his son and let his son hire his unqualified cronies to coach. NONE of that is on Snyder.

Makes me sick to defend Snyder but let's be honest here.

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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby riggofan » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:02 am

PulpExposure wrote:There's quite a bit of evidence Snyder has changed over his tenure. He let Shanahan have complete control (written into his contract) for 4 full years; and he fired Vinny Cerrato. Remember that while he gave Schottenheimer control for one year, he fired him because he couldn't stand it. It's pretty evident Snyder was okay with Shanahan having control, but NOT with him having such a horrific record.

And I completely disagree. Whereas a lot of the previous issues were due to Snyder, this mess I fully leave at the feet of Mike Shanahan. Think of how bad the record has been, and how our team lacks overall talent. Since Shanahan had full control, how can you blame Snyder for the lack of talent? He didn't pick the players. Shanahan also demonstrated, multiple times, that he gave up. Remember how last year, after the loss against the Panthers that dropped us to 3-6, he basically threw in the towel saying "Obviously, we're not out of it statistically, but now we find out what type of character we've got and how guys keep on fighting through the rest of the season"? And then he again threw in the towel this year, and started the toxic leaking about how he was thinking of leaving after last season?


Great stuff man. I completely agree with what you're saying (and I feel you on your comment that it "makes you sick to defend Snyder"). When all of this negative stuff came out about Snyder last month, I was really surprised. My impression was that I had barely seen or heard ANYTHING from Snyder in the four years since Mike took over. It couldn't have been more different from the Zorn era where he was out in front like Jerry Jones.

Kilmer72 wrote:I understand what you are saying. Question.... Have you ever changed at all in your life? I would guess that most people go through quite a few changes. Has anyone in your life ever persuaded you to act different? I know I have made mistakes and learned from it and even had people tell me so. This will continue I am sure. That is just me I suppose.


+1. Honestly, I think we'll find out a lot about Snyder based on who this next HC is and how the process plays out. As much as I dislike him personally, I still believe that Dan Snyder loves the team as much as any of us and will do nearly anything to make them a winner. Even if I'm wrong about his passion for the team, the guy is making money like he's printing it himself with one of the most consistently bad teams in the NFL. How much more money would he be making if they actually WON???

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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:07 am

I agree to a certain extent ... Mike asked for 'control' and got it ... he did not do well. no question

Dan Snyder has continued to interfere and meddle with the team ... it is impossible for a HC to have complete authority if the owner is in 'contact' with players

we do not know the actual circumstances but I will ask ...

do you think that Mike has complete authority over the players if Dan is meeting or having contact with RG3

do you think it undermine's Mike and Kyle authority for RG3 to have contact with the owner and possibly discuss what's happening

do you think it's an issue for other players if RG3 is in contact with Dan Snyder - how do they 'relate' to this

if the answer is yes to any of the above, then Dan is still making it almost impossible for a HC to have complete authority

It is almost a given that Dan has been meeting with RG3 and making it difficult for Mike to have complete authority


The only thing I liked about the hiring of Mike Shanahan was the fact that he asked for and got Dan Snyder to turn the operations over to Mike and the FO

there is no doubt that Mike did not do well but Dan Snyder did not make it possible for him to have complete authority ...


Dan Snyder needs to stay away from RG3 ...

RG3 needs to stay away from Dan Snyder and he needs to understand that the HC and OC are the only guys he owes complete loyalty to


the only reason this job is not more attractive than any other job is Dan Snyder - we have an incredible QB and a lot of good things ...

we also have Dan Snyder and he has not changed - it is impossible to succeed here while Dan Snyder continues to interfere with what is happening on the field

IMPOSSIBLE
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

Hail to the Redskins

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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:18 am

riggofan wrote:
PulpExposure wrote:.. I think we'll find out a lot about Snyder based on who this next HC is and how the process plays out. As much as I dislike him personally, I still believe that Dan Snyder loves the team as much as any of us and will do nearly anything to make them a winner. Even if I'm wrong about his passion for the team, the guy is making money like he's printing it himself with one of the most consistently bad teams in the NFL. How much more money would he be making if they actually WON???


I agree with you except that no HC can have the authority he needs if RG3 and Dan Snyder are 'friends'

I love that Dan Snyder loves this franchise and that he gave the FO the authority to look for the next HC

The only way that RG3 develops as a QB and as a member of the team is for Dan Snyder to stay away from RG3

there's no doubt that contact affects the other players and the authority of the coaching staff

we have seen some change from Dan Snyder and we do not know all the facts about the contact between Snyder and RG3 ...

If there is any 'contact' and it seems obvious, then that is not good for the coaches, the players and it is not good for RG3
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

Hail to the Redskins

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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby riggofan » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:21 am

I honestly don't know man. I kind of disagree with you that Snyder should not have "contact" with players. To me its more about having APPROPRIATE contact.

I'm a VP at my small company, and there are kids that I don't work with on a daily basis. They work for my production manager or for the office manager or whatever. I still find it helpful at times to speak directly to them, take them to lunch individually, things like that. I guarantee you I get information and helpful details from them that I don't get from the office manager!

So do I think Shanahan had "complete authority"? I think so, but I also don't think Snyder or any other owner just turns EVERYTHING over to one guy and says, "Ok run with it, no input from me, let me know how it goes."

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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby riggofan » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:23 am

SkinsJock wrote:I agree with you except that no HC can have the authority he needs if RG3 and Dan Snyder are 'friends'


Totally agree, man. That's exactly what I was getting at when I said "appropriate" contact. There is that story about Snyder having Thanksgiving dinner with RGIII, not sure that qualifies as "appropriate". Forget about undermining the coach, I think stuff like that does RGIII no favors with his teammates.

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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:33 am

I can't imagine Dan having no contact with his players but he should understand how harmful it is for it to be more than just a very occasional 'dinner'

I don't think that it's only 1 or 2 'meetings' but we do not know that ..... you can imagine how blown up any meeting is when the DC media is involved
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

Hail to the Redskins

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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby PulpExposure » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:02 pm

SkinsJock wrote:I can't imagine Dan having no contact with his players but he should understand how harmful it is for it to be more than just a very occasional 'dinner'

I don't think that it's only 1 or 2 'meetings' but we do not know that ..... you can imagine how blown up any meeting is when the DC media is involved


I do agree with your thought in general, but I don't actually think that applies here.

All we have about the whole RG3-Snyder "influence" story is a lot of Sally. That is, based on rumors and wholly unproven. I can't point to a single time where Shanahan made a call, was overruled by when RG3 used his "influence" with Snyder. It may have happened, but we don't know about it.

However, we do know one instance where influence wasn't seen. Shanahan benched RG3. RG3 clearly didn't agree with this, and if he truly had influence, he would have gone to Snyder and wouldn't have been benched...

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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:30 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:I can't imagine Dan having no contact with his players but he should understand how harmful it is for it to be more than just an occasional 'dinner' - I don't think that it's only 1 or 2 'meetings' - we do not know that, you can imagine how blown up any meeting is when the DC media is involved


I do agree with your thought in general, but I don't actually think that applies here.

All we have about the whole RG3-Snyder "influence" story is a lot of Sally. That is, based on rumors and wholly unproven.
I can't point to a single time where Shanahan made a call, was overruled by when RG3 used his "influence" with Snyder. It may have happened, but we don't know about it.

However, we do know one instance where influence wasn't seen. Shanahan benched RG3. RG3 clearly didn't agree with this, and if he truly had influence, he would have gone to Snyder and wouldn't have been benched...

I don't know why you think that RG3 had any 'influence' - if that was in the article, it's almost certainly complete BS - I do not read trash

nobody with any sense thinks that RG3 had any 'influence' with what happened here - NOBODY

I do not think that Dan Snyder should have ZERO contact with his players - he just has to be very careful about it is all

nobody really knows if the contact between RG3 and Snyder was more than a casual dinner or 2
the only issue might have been if his tam mates or his coaches felt that there was more between them than there actually was - THAT is a huge problem

it's a matter of trust between players and between players and coaches and if that was compromised by Dan Snyder then that is BS

that is what I'm referring to - no HC can be successful if he is not trusted and does not trust his players

IMO - Dan Snyder made that happen and made it impossible for things to work here

Mike did make Dan Snyder give up control and that is a good thing as long as Snyder stays away from interfering with the players and coaches
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

Hail to the Redskins

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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby riggofan » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:34 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
PulpExposure wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:I can't imagine Dan having no contact with his players but he should understand how harmful it is for it to be more than just an occasional 'dinner' - I don't think that it's only 1 or 2 'meetings' - we do not know that, you can imagine how blown up any meeting is when the DC media is involved


I do agree with your thought in general, but I don't actually think that applies here.

All we have about the whole RG3-Snyder "influence" story is a lot of Sally. That is, based on rumors and wholly unproven.
I can't point to a single time where Shanahan made a call, was overruled by when RG3 used his "influence" with Snyder. It may have happened, but we don't know about it.

However, we do know one instance where influence wasn't seen. Shanahan benched RG3. RG3 clearly didn't agree with this, and if he truly had influence, he would have gone to Snyder and wouldn't have been benched...


I don't know why you think that RG3 had any 'influence' - if that was in the article, it's almost certainly complete BS - I do not read trash


I think you misread his post. He is writing that Jenkins didn't show any evidence of RGIII influence.

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Re: Wash Post: the Skins continue to lose w/Snyder

Postby DaSkinz Baby » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:36 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:I can't imagine Dan having no contact with his players but he should understand how harmful it is for it to be more than just a very occasional 'dinner'

I don't think that it's only 1 or 2 'meetings' but we do not know that ..... you can imagine how blown up any meeting is when the DC media is involved


I do agree with your thought in general, but I don't actually think that applies here.

All we have about the whole RG3-Snyder "influence" story is a lot of Sally. That is, based on rumors and wholly unproven. I can't point to a single time where Shanahan made a call, was overruled by when RG3 used his "influence" with Snyder. It may have happened, but we don't know about it.

However, we do know one instance where influence wasn't seen. Shanahan benched RG3. RG3 clearly didn't agree with this, and if he truly had influence, he would have gone to Snyder and wouldn't have been benched...


I agree with your assessment 100%. It's widely known that Sally among others live to make drama and assumption in all articles regarding the Redskins. As bas a Snyder has been in the past, if and when, if it hasn't already, once that "light" comes on and we go back to being the powerhouse we once were, then maybe would he get some positive press. Until then, he will be written about and the unending "sources" these media people have will always give some "insight" I think based upon the 1 year Snyder gave to Shottenheimer in comparison to Shanahan, I would think he has matured. We just need the right HC to come in here and inspire this team and have a offense that will allow RGIII to become that elite QB. We also need a DC in here that will make this a good defense again. I only hope and pray that it comes soon!!

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