Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby Deadskins » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:21 am

Irn-Bru wrote:Wilson and many of his contemporaries are getting ripped off. They already have to put in 2-3 years of risky labor in college for much less compensation than they are worth. Then the NFL exacerbates the problem with its new rookie contract structures. Sure, the lucky few who make it to their first contract extension will make up part of it, and the fewer still who have a long career will probably come out ahead in the long run. But a lot of people in the meantime won't ever get that far.

That's what insurance is for. There are no guarantees that they will make it in the NFL, anyway, and they should prepare for their future with that in mind. They need to be thinking about their careers after football, before they enter the draft.
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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby riggofan » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:08 am

Irn-Bru wrote:
riggofan wrote:Love Alfred Morris! But RB is not a position where I would spend a lot of money.

Agreed. The NFL has changed quite a bit in the last 10-15 years, and this might be the most dramatic of those changes: decent to good RBs aren't worth their weight in gold anymore. I find this sad, but I really think it's true. And it's been the inevitable trend for as long as the rule changes have favored "exciting" offense, a project that's been decades and decades in the making.


Exactly. I think you have to keep the shelf stocked with young, capable RBs or you risk paying a guy like Chris Johnson way too much money just in time for his inevitable injury or decline.

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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:20 am

Deadskins wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:Wilson and many of his contemporaries are getting ripped off. They already have to put in 2-3 years of risky labor in college for much less compensation than they are worth. Then the NFL exacerbates the problem with its new rookie contract structures. Sure, the lucky few who make it to their first contract extension will make up part of it, and the fewer still who have a long career will probably come out ahead in the long run. But a lot of people in the meantime won't ever get that far.

That's what insurance is for. There are no guarantees that they will make it in the NFL, anyway, and they should prepare for their future with that in mind. They need to be thinking about their careers after football, before they enter the draft.



That's what insurance is for? WTF does that even mean? That's complete BS. Why? Because you wouldn't work under those same circumstances. While I agree that most players need to do a better job of preparing for their lives after football that has nothing to do with many players not being paid their worth...


That being said, the new guys need to thank the NFLPA and their team members for allowing the NFL to complete dominate them in negotiations.
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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby Deadskins » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:35 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:That's what insurance is for? WTF does that even mean? That's complete BS. Why?

That means that young players should buy insurance against the possibility of injury. Many players already do, so no, it's not complete BS. It's sound planning for playing a sport where a career ending injury is a very real possibility.
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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:22 pm

Deadskins wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:That's what insurance is for? WTF does that even mean? That's complete BS. Why?

That means that young players should buy insurance against the possibility of injury. Many players already do, so no, it's not complete BS. It's sound planning for playing a sport where a career ending injury is a very real possibility.


But that is not a solution to the problem. Buying insurance does not resolve the issue of players not being paid what they're worth. Alfred could be paid what he's worth and get the proper insurance to protect himself.


But as I said, the players signed onto the deal.
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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby Irn-Bru » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:35 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:That's what insurance is for? WTF does that even mean? That's complete BS. Why?

That means that young players should buy insurance against the possibility of injury. Many players already do, so no, it's not complete BS. It's sound planning for playing a sport where a career ending injury is a very real possibility.


But that is not a solution to the problem. Buying insurance does not resolve the issue of players not being paid what they're worth. Alfred could be paid what he's worth and get the proper insurance to protect himself.


Agreed. Insurance actually causes players to bear more risk than they should in the form of high premiums. It's a way to hedge against injuries, but these gymnastics "solve" a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. Just pay the damn players what they're worth to begin with.
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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby riggofan » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:43 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:Agreed. Insurance actually causes players to bear more risk than they should in the form of high premiums. It's a way to hedge against injuries, but these gymnastics "solve" a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. Just pay the damn players what they're worth to begin with.


But isn't THAT the problem they were trying to solve to begin with, with the rookie pay scale? Trying to avoid situations like paying Sam Bradford $86 million before he has ever played a snap in the NFL?

I'm just not entirely sure what solution you guys are advocating. What would 6th round pick Alfred Morris be paid in this scenario? If people knew what he was worth to begin with, would he have been a 6th round pick?

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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby Deadskins » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:53 pm

They probably should have had a clause that allows a player to renegotiate early if he reaches certain performance levels. But like Chris said, they signed off on the deal as is. Players can make extra on the side with endorsement deals though, so the high achievers do have other sources of revenue other than just salary.
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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:16 pm

Bingo!
Rgiii is already set for life with his subway and adidas endorsements. Wilson probably would've made a very similar wage even w out the rookie scale so it's a moot point. Earn your pay day like the vets do. Players are being rewarded much more handsomely then ever before. High risk reward if you got the goods.
I'd take undrafted rookie pay anyway! Some of these rooks rarely see the field anyhow
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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:26 am

riggofan wrote:But isn't THAT the problem they were trying to solve to begin with, with the rookie pay scale? Trying to avoid situations like paying Sam Bradford $86 million before he has ever played a snap in the NFL?


Yes and they solved that issue but it's causing other issues.


riggofan wrote:I'm just not entirely sure what solution you guys are advocating. What would 6th round pick Alfred Morris be paid in this scenario? If people knew what he was worth to begin with, would he have been a 6th round pick?


Personally, I'd like to see a player like Alfred be able to petition for a new contract sooner. RB's get used up and tossed to the side by nature of the today's NFL... Every position is not treated the same.


Deadskins wrote:They probably should have had a clause that allows a player to renegotiate early if he reaches certain performance levels.


Something like this.


Deadskins wrote: But like Chris said, they signed off on the deal as is.


The players at the time signed off, Alfred didn't. Russel didn't. It's a raw deal, and it's up to them and their counterparts to get a more fair deal during the next CBA talks.


Deadskins wrote: Players can make extra on the side with endorsement deals though, so the high achievers do have other sources of revenue other than just salary.


It's not that easy. You can't just walk to the mall and get an endorsement deal. It's not just about being a high achiever...


cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Bingo!
Rgiii is already set for life with his subway and adidas endorsements.


Is he? You know the details of the contract?


cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Earn your pay day like the vets do.


What does this even mean? Earn it. They have earned it, that's what we're saying. Alfred isn't a one-time wonder, neither is Russel. They have multiple years left on contracts that doesn't reflect their contributions to the team.


cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Players are being rewarded much more handsomely then ever before.


Again, this has nothing to do with being paid your worth... That statement doesn't even include things like cost of living and inflation. So the f*** what that Alfred makes more money than a 6th round pick in the draft of 1960 of the GreenBay Packers... It's apples to oranges.


cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:High risk reward if you got the goods.


Easy to say when it's not your health, your body or your livelihood.


cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I'd take undrafted rookie pay anyway! Some of these rooks rarely see the field anyhow


Nobody really cares what you'd take, or what I'd take. The honest truth is that you wouldn't take less than your worth at your current job, and if you are that's a personal problem. There isn't a man or woman on this board that would accept a fraction of their earning potential for 3 years. You'd switch jobs in a heart beat. It's so easy to tell someone else to "suck it up" when it's not your money.
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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby Deadskins » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:43 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:The players at the time signed off, Alfred didn't. Russel didn't. It's a raw deal, and it's up to them and their counterparts to get a more fair deal during the next CBA talks.

The NFLPA has very poor leadership and even poorer lawyers. They screwed the Redskins and Cowpies for expediency's sake, too. They need to realize that the owners do not have their interests at heart during these negotiations.
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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:57 am

Deadskins wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:The players at the time signed off, Alfred didn't. Russel didn't. It's a raw deal, and it's up to them and their counterparts to get a more fair deal during the next CBA talks.

The NFLPA has very poor leadership and even poorer lawyers. They screwed the Redskins and Cowpies for expediency's sake, too. They need to realize that the owners do not have their interests at heart during these negotiations.


I agree 110%. They got shafted thoroughly. How they allowed Goodell to remain a dictator is beyond me. And the rookie scale... The intention was to pass that money onto the Vets. That's not happening, they're simply chaining young players to long deals and not hiring Vets. LOL I mean, it's genius.
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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby riggofan » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:23 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
riggofan wrote:But isn't THAT the problem they were trying to solve to begin with, with the rookie pay scale? Trying to avoid situations like paying Sam Bradford $86 million before he has ever played a snap in the NFL?


Yes and they solved that issue but it's causing other issues.


That's true. I guess I would be curious though to know how big of a problem it is. How many of those players in the current system are vastly outplaying their rookie contract. I kind of doubt its that big a number.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Personally, I'd like to see a player like Alfred be able to petition for a new contract sooner.


But doesn't that just open up the problem of holdouts that they just fixed?

I do get what you're saying though. Its not a great deal for the rookies and heavily favors the owners. But the players didn't have the willpower and leverage to negotiate a better deal last time, and that wasn't just all about the NFLPA leadership. That was about veteran players being unwilling to strike for long and lose their paychecks. They were unwilling to hold out for a better deal for young players who weren't even in the NFL yet.

I will say the pay scale for first round rookies is more fair. A good compromise might be to allow new contracts/negotiations for some of those late round players earlier.

Good point about treating certain positions differently btw.

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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:33 am

riggofan wrote:That's true. I guess I would be curious though to know how big of a problem it is. How many of those players in the current system are vastly outplaying their rookie contract. I kind of doubt its that big a number.


IMHO, if it's just one player, it's an issue. I like to see people be rewarded for their hard work.



riggofan wrote:But doesn't that just open up the problem of holdouts that they just fixed?


I understand that it'd create new issues. I'm just looking at this from the human perspective, not as a fan. As a man, I'd like to see another person be rewarded for their efforts. I'd like to see them paid what they're worth. I take the same stance for my coworkers and people with whom I can champion for to get raises. I hate seeing good people get looked over.


riggofan wrote:I do get what you're saying though. Its not a great deal for the rookies and heavily favors the owners. But the players didn't have the willpower and leverage to negotiate a better deal last time, and that wasn't just all about the NFLPA leadership. That was about veteran players being unwilling to strike for long and lose their paychecks. They were unwilling to hold out for a better deal for young players who weren't even in the NFL yet.


Yeah. The owners took advantage of the players inability to be financially sound and their greed. The players picked poor leadership. The players got what they deserved.


riggofan wrote:I will say the pay scale for first round rookies is more fair. A good compromise might be to allow new contracts/negotiations for some of those late round players earlier.


Yep. I totally agree.


riggofan wrote:Good point about treating certain positions differently btw.


Yeah. Alfred is gonna get screwed pretty badly if he gets injured. I'd hate to see that.
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Re: Is Alfred Morris due a major payday?

Postby riggofan » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:48 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm just looking at this from the human perspective, not as a fan. As a man, I'd like to see another person be rewarded for their efforts. I'd like to see them paid what they're worth. I take the same stance for my coworkers and people with whom I can champion for to get raises. I hate seeing good people get looked over.


+1. I totally get the point you're making. Fans are quick to blame players for "being greedy", but its nothing compared to the fixed game the NFL owners play.

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