Gruden Year 4

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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby riggofan » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:00 pm

Hooligan wrote:That's the really damning thing about Gruden and his coaching staff: His inability to prepare the team to play. It's a coin flip to see whether an effective, competent offense or defense is going to show up.


So essentially your requirement for the coaching staff is that their teams can never be outplayed or beaten. Otherwise its a damning indictment. Seems realistic.
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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby riggofan » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:49 am

Kind of a tangent here, but didn't want to start a whole new thread. This interview with Santana talking about that last year with Shanahan is eye opening and worth a read. A lot of stuff in here he confirms that people were guessing at.

I thought his comment about Jay Gruden was relevant though. Kind of different I think from what we see publicly from Gruden:

“So 2014 comes, and Jay Gruden comes in, and he don’t care,” Moss continued. “We see that now. He doesn’t care. He doesn’t care what he says about you, he doesn’t care what he says at you.

“And he rips RG every chance he gets, like every meeting, and we’re sitting there looking like, ‘Yeah. You know what? You were just so happy that Mike and Kyle and them is gone, but now you’re getting your behind ripped every day, because you’re not playing the kind of football that we need to play for us to be successful.'”


http://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/09/ ... -shanahan/
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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby mastdark81 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:34 pm

I think you know great coaches when you see them. Same way with players. While I think Gruden has room to grow as a coach, I know for sure he isn't the next Joe Gibbs or anywhere close.

One thing we must all agree upon is unlike the Cowboys, our coach is really the voice of the Redskins and have enough power needed. I tend to think Bruce and Dan like him alot and actually preferred him over McCloughan when it came down to it.

But another thing is as a good coach you have to put good coaches around you. Gruden have not done so with success here. Lets be real Joe Barry hiring was laughable around the league, especially since they passed over Wade Phillips a few times. I believe the Callahan hiring was all Bruce. He has ties to him back in Oakland. Promoting former Bears qb coach to offensive coordinator was also very questionable.

I think Manusky, while not great may be along the line of Haslett. Competent but not a top 10 d coordinator.

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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby Smithian » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:12 pm

I'm a Gruden fan for being a calming influence on the franchise. I think keeping Haslett was dumb, but that may not have been all him. And I don't think Barry was the worst as much as he had zero talent. Manusky has a bit better talent and not surprisingly has a more comeptent group.

I give Gruden credit as an offensive mind for turning not great talents like Dalton and Cousins into guys who are somehow just good enough a team can't let them go. I'd love to see what a Jon or Jay Gruden offense could do with a legit talent at QB and not just a game manager.
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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby riggofan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:29 am

I agree Smithian about the calming influence. My take for a while has been that Gruden has been okay. Not horrible and not great, but good enough. Some positives IMO:

1) Four years of relative stability. Well, three. Throw out that first year with Griffin. I've been screaming for years that a team can't build something when you're scrapping everything and starting over every two years.
2) Shows some adaptability and willingness to change. I'm sure there are some examples where this isn't the case, but Gruden looks like a guy who has learned over these four years and gotten at least a little better from that deer in the headlights guy of year one.
3) I like that he values performance over reputation. There are numerous examples on this team of high round draft picks, FAs, etc; who are gone because they didn't perform.
4) Most importantly, he seems to have figured out how to work with Bruce and Dan. I mean seriously, that fact alone that he's in year 4 and hasn't quit or been fired should tell everyone something. Maybe he's not the best coach in the NFL, but he might be the best coach in the NFL right now for THIS franchise.

Its going to be a tough year. I hope the team does at least well enough to keep things on track.
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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:05 am

It's going to be a 'tough year' each and every season that Dan Snyder keeps interfering and meddling with this franchise
The Redskins will never be a consistently successful franchise while Dan Snyder is so involved with 'managing'
we may have some success but there's no chance of any consistentency ... NONE!

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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby riggofan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:26 am

SkinsJock wrote:It's going to be a 'tough year' each and every season that Dan Snyder keeps interfering and meddling with this franchise


Really adding a lot to the conversation. If you like, I can write a script for you to just auto post this comment every hour. Might save you some time.
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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby mastdark81 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:40 pm

riggofan wrote:I agree Smithian about the calming influence. My take for a while has been that Gruden has been okay. Not horrible and not great, but good enough. Some positives IMO:

1) Four years of relative stability. Well, three. Throw out that first year with Griffin. I've been screaming for years that a team can't build something when you're scrapping everything and starting over every two years.
2) Shows some adaptability and willingness to change. I'm sure there are some examples where this isn't the case, but Gruden looks like a guy who has learned over these four years and gotten at least a little better from that deer in the headlights guy of year one.
3) I like that he values performance over reputation. There are numerous examples on this team of high round draft picks, FAs, etc; who are gone because they didn't perform.
4) Most importantly, he seems to have figured out how to work with Bruce and Dan. I mean seriously, that fact alone that he's in year 4 and hasn't quit or been fired should tell everyone something. Maybe he's not the best coach in the NFL, but he might be the best coach in the NFL right now for THIS franchise.

Its going to be a tough year. I hope the team does at least well enough to keep things on track.


1. Haslett, Barry, and now Manusky. Scott McCloughan fired. No longterm deal with starting qb. Not exactly stability.

2. Case in example?

3. Which high draft picks? I consider high as 1-3 rounds.

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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:26 pm

riggofan wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:It's going to be a 'tough year' each and every season that Dan Snyder keeps interfering and meddling with this franchise
If you like, I can write a script for you to just auto post this comment every hour. Might save you some time.
thanks for the offer - no worries, I can handle it :lol:

I'll stop posting comments about Snyder when fans here stop trying to make out that others are more responsible for all the issues here :lol:
The Redskins will never be a consistently successful franchise while Dan Snyder is so involved with 'managing'
we may have some success but there's no chance of any consistentency ... NONE!

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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby riggofan » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:26 am

mastdark81 wrote:1. Haslett, Barry, and now Manusky. Scott McCloughan fired. No longterm deal with starting qb. Not exactly stability.


Believe I said "relative stability". And by relative, I mean compared to the previous twenty years of this franchise - not compared to the rest of the NFL.

Swapping out defensive coordinators hasn't required the team to completely start the defense over from scratch. Agree with you that the Cousins contract has been a looming negative, but you can't put that one on Gruden. He's still started the same QB for three consecutive years with decent results. (I have no idea what the firing of Scot McCloughan has to do with Gruden's performance as head coach.)

mastdark81 wrote:2. Case in example?


I think a big one is how he talks to the media. First year he was way too friendly and trusting of them. If you see him in interviews or at the podium now, I think he's way more guarded and reserved in what he'll say. Early on he was also more publicly critical of players.

mastdark81 wrote:3. Which high draft picks? I consider high as 1-3 rounds.


Josh LeRibeus? Matt Jones? RG3? Docston is certainly having to work out of his dog house. Su'a Cravens was reportedly trying to come back to the team last week and was placed on the season ending list.
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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby Bishop Hammer » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:24 pm

riggofan wrote:I agree Smithian about the calming influence. My take for a while has been that Gruden has been okay. Not horrible and not great, but good enough. Some positives IMO:

1) Four years of relative stability. Well, three. Throw out that first year with Griffin. I've been screaming for years that a team can't build something when you're scrapping everything and starting over every two years.
2) Shows some adaptability and willingness to change. I'm sure there are some examples where this isn't the case, but Gruden looks like a guy who has learned over these four years and gotten at least a little better from that deer in the headlights guy of year one.
3) I like that he values performance over reputation. There are numerous examples on this team of high round draft picks, FAs, etc; who are gone because they didn't perform.
4) Most importantly, he seems to have figured out how to work with Bruce and Dan. I mean seriously, that fact alone that he's in year 4 and hasn't quit or been fired should tell everyone something. Maybe he's not the best coach in the NFL, but he might be the best coach in the NFL right now for THIS franchise.

Its going to be a tough year. I hope the team does at least well enough to keep things on track.


Number four is spot on. Coaching in Cincy under Marvin Lewis has showed Gruden, some idea, how to succeed under an owner who is holding back the team. As much as I hate to say it Was best case scenario may be The Bengals 2.0; makes the playoffs on a regular basis but doesn't advance that far into it?
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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby SkinsJock » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:38 am

I'm looking forward to a time when we don't have to wonder how much better we could be without this idiot's meddling

must be frustrating for players and coaches to know that their limited time in the NFL can be badly affected by this ego maniac
The Redskins will never be a consistently successful franchise while Dan Snyder is so involved with 'managing'
we may have some success but there's no chance of any consistentency ... NONE!

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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby riggofan » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:01 am

Bishop Hammer wrote:Number four is spot on. Coaching in Cincy under Marvin Lewis has showed Gruden, some idea, how to succeed under an owner who is holding back the team. As much as I hate to say it Was best case scenario may be The Bengals 2.0; makes the playoffs on a regular basis but doesn't advance that far into it?


Hadn't thought of that, but its a really good comparison and like you wrote, maybe something Gruden learned from while he was in Cincy. Is it true to say though that the Bengals' problem has been more about a cheap owner in a small market rather than the meddling, dysfunction we've had in DC?

Honestly for now I'd be happy to make the playoffs on a regular basis and be competitive like the Bengals have been for so many years now.
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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby hitmandm » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:34 pm

Gruden is a moron.

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Re: Gruden Year 4

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:00 pm

Jay Gruden's not a bad coach, he's just not a really good HC - he may be the best HC we can get because of this idiot owner

btw - Got to really like the jobs being done by Callahan, Manusky and Tomsula - gotta give credit to Gruden for that
The Redskins will never be a consistently successful franchise while Dan Snyder is so involved with 'managing'
we may have some success but there's no chance of any consistentency ... NONE!

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