Skins face dilemma at 13th pick

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Who would you draft at #13?

Brian Cushing
8
27%
Clay Matthews
1
3%
Andre Smith
8
27%
Tyson Jackson
2
7%
Michael Oher
11
37%
Everette Brown
0
No votes
Michael Johnson
0
No votes
Eben Britton
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 30
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Skins face dilemma at 13th pick

Postby fleetus » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:55 am

I believe there is a dilemma at #13 for the Skins. The greatest need is OL. But the OL available at 13, possibly, Andre Smith, Oher and Britton, all leave something to be desired.

OL
Andre Smith's talent and size would be perfect for the Skins if he didn't already look like a major bust waiting to happen. His combine workout was horrible and then he compounded it by quitting and going home. :shock: His Pro Day workot was supposed to erase those doubts but they didn't. He only benched 19 reps! :shock: Not good for a 330+ lbs. guy who gets paid to manhandle defensive lineman. I've said it before, Smith will slide way down the board into the 20's and beyond (unless the Skins are gullible enough to throw him a life preserver at 13) Oher is considered talented but inconsistent. He also seems to be a more natural pass protecter, with gifted footwork and may project better as a LT than RT. Britton would be a reach at 13. Although JC might like having an Auburn player protecting him, Britton lacks the run blocking skills and tenacity you look for in a RT. Of those three prospects, Oher seems the best bet. But he hardly seems the player you pencil in at a starting spot on day one. Which is what you should expect to find with the 13th pick in an NFL draft.

So what are the options? Well, our biggest needs besides OT are DE and OLB. You hate to draft for need only in the 1st round, but with only 5 picks and the #13 being our only pick in the top 75, you have to address one of the holes in the starting 22 with that pick.

DE is needed on the left side. We have Carter on the right side. He is a solid player, but isn't outstanding against the run and while he can put pressure on the QB, he doesn't always finish the rush with a sack. So in a 4-3, the LDE who lines up with Carter, Griff and Haynesworth will likely need to be a solid all around DE. Not too small of an edge rusher, otherwise teams will just double Albert and attack the edges all day. You could get away with a big run stopping DE, like a younger version of Daniels, but then you're not creating much a pass rush. Maybe that would be an acceptable trade-off, less dominating pass rush, but a front four that could seriously stuff the run. But a little pass rushing skill on the left side would be nice for a change.

DE

Orakpo is just not going to be there at 13. At the most, he'll last to 12, but even if he is passed up by Browns, Packers and 49ers, Denver will surley snag him. Too bad, he would be an impact player.

Pretty sure Maybin will be gone by 13. Irregardless, he's more a 3-4 OLB hybrid (Jason Taylor) and not well-suited for Washington.

Tyson Jackson looks like he could be a younger version of Phillip Daniels. This is a compliment, IMO. Unlike Daniels however, Jackson is healthy and durable. He doesn't flash much speed and edge rushing skills, but he is strong against the run, can stand up his lineman and plow him into the backfield.

Everette Brown is almost the opposite of Jackson. He is on the small side, is quick twitch speed rusher with even more upside to his pass rush. But his size, strength and run-stopping ability are all questionable. Probably would project better to the right side. Still, if the Skins staff think he's special, with lots of upside, he might be worth the risk. Carter won't be here forever, so maybe the fact that he wouldn't be a typical LDE shouldn't be too much of a worry.

Michael Johnson has it all, size, speed, pass rush ability, would be suited to LDE, BUT, he hasn't really done much on the field??? This is your typical project. He looks like he could have serious NFL DE skills. Drafting this guy would have to be a Blach call. If Blache thought he could be coached up, this guy could be a serious wild card in the draft. Otherwise, forget it, he's more likely to go late 1st round-2nd round.

Robert Ayers is a one year wonder. No one heard of him before 2008. He improved and turned in a nice senior season. Decent size and strength but not overly athletically gifted. Still, he has some skills and possible upside which might make him worthy of a look.

With Marcus Washington gone, we have Blades penciled in at OLB. Blades is a solid player, but better suited as a Fletcher backup. While OLB isn't our biggest need, it is a need and it also is where we have the best options to get a player truly worthy of a 13th pick.

OLB

Cushing is rated the highest OLB most places, after Curry. He has all the basic skills you need in an OLB. Durability might be an issue however. Defintely worthy of the 13 slot, but only if the medical staff believes he won't continue to miss games. He did play a full 2008 season however. 30 bench reps are impressive too. Natural as a SLB which is what we need. I think what excites me about Cushing is his intelligence and instincts. That's the kind of guy I like to see in Burgundy and Gold.

Clay Matthews was a walk on at USC. He bulked up and last year started to show the talent his father and grandfather had in the NFL. Durability, based on his bloodlines, should be excellent. He may not have the body of work that Cushing does, but he may have better pass rushing skills too.

If it were me, I would draft in this order:

Cushing
Matthews
Jackson
Oher

I think either Cushing or MAtthews would be exciting to add to the team. Even though we would still would have question marks at RT and DE, we will still have a chance to sign mid-level FA's and we have Daniels, Wynn at DE and Jansen/Heyer at RT. Jansen is reportedly in great shape and determined to regain his pro bowl form. Heyer is insurance. Cushing or MAtthews would give us a future Pro Bowl LB which is not something I feel I can say with much certainty about Oher, Jackson or any of the others mentioned above. So who do you like?
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Postby Deadskins » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:21 am

Andre Smith. SkinsFreak talked me into it.
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Postby VetSkinsFan » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:13 am

Tyson Jackson looks like he could be a younger version of Phillip Daniels. This is a compliment, IMO. Unlike Daniels however, Jackson is healthy and durable.


Looking at Daniels 13 year career, he's been pretty durable in his youngers days. I am sure comparing an NFL prospect to a 13 year player is quite valid. -drinking
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Postby brad7686 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:54 pm

The more I look at Cushing, the more sense it makes to draft him, if we stay at 13. 1st among LB's in 3 cone drill, first among LB's in bench, with 30 reps (better than most OL), and not slow in the 40 either. If somebody wants Sanchez at 13, trading back to get Oher or Britton and picking up a 2nd would be a good move. I also wouldn't rule out taking Heyward-Bey at 13. Yea, I said it.
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Postby SkinsFreak » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:12 pm

Deadskins wrote:Andre Smith. SkinsFreak talked me into it.


#-o D'oh! Thanks, blame me... :lol:

brad7686 wrote:The more I look at Cushing, the more sense it makes to draft him, if we stay at 13. 1st among LB's in 3 cone drill, first among LB's in bench, with 30 reps (better than most OL), and not slow in the 40 either. If somebody wants Sanchez at 13, trading back to get Oher or Britton and picking up a 2nd would be a good move.


I agree trading back and grabbing Oher/Britton and a 2nd rounder would be nice. I also like Cushing, but the knock on him is that he's stiff and will get exposed in coverage.

Orakpo will be long gone. Mathews is a nice prospect but may be a stretch at #13.

Some out there like Maualuga...

If defensive end Brian Orakpo and all four of the top offensive tackles are off the board at No. 13, then I could definitely envision the Redskins drafting a linebacker. Makes sense, too, because strong-side linebacker is currently a need. Maualuga could be an impact linebacker in the mold of Brian Urlacher. If he’s available at No. 13, then he could be the best player on the board. He is a fiery, intense leader who, if the Redskins draft him, could eventually move to middle linebacker once London Fletcher leaves or retires.


I'll take... Andre Smith... if he's even still there at #13. He still could certainly go higher. But at this point, we need a RT, and Andre could be a steal at #13.

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Postby brad7686 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:20 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Andre Smith. SkinsFreak talked me into it.


#-o D'oh! Thanks, blame me... :lol:

brad7686 wrote:The more I look at Cushing, the more sense it makes to draft him, if we stay at 13. 1st among LB's in 3 cone drill, first among LB's in bench, with 30 reps (better than most OL), and not slow in the 40 either. If somebody wants Sanchez at 13, trading back to get Oher or Britton and picking up a 2nd would be a good move.


I agree trading back and grabbing Oher/Britton and a 2nd rounder would be nice. I also like Cushing, but the knock on him is that he's stiff and will get exposed in coverage.

Orakpo will be long gone. Mathews is a nice prospect but may be a stretch at #13.

Some out there like Maualuga...

If defensive end Brian Orakpo and all four of the top offensive tackles are off the board at No. 13, then I could definitely envision the Redskins drafting a linebacker. Makes sense, too, because strong-side linebacker is currently a need. Maualuga could be an impact linebacker in the mold of Brian Urlacher. If he’s available at No. 13, then he could be the best player on the board. He is a fiery, intense leader who, if the Redskins draft him, could eventually move to middle linebacker once London Fletcher leaves or retires.


I'll take... Andre Smith... if he's even still there at #13. He still could certainly go higher. But at this point, we need a RT, and Andre could be a steal at #13.


Cushing showed good agility at the combine, and has the strength/size to fill on the strong side/ rush the passer a bit. Maualuga will struggle to play outside, it doesn't fit his strengths.

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Postby Deadskins » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:12 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Andre Smith. SkinsFreak talked me into it.


#-o D'oh! Thanks, blame me... :lol:

You were very convincing in the other thread.

SkinsFreak wrote:I'll take... Andre Smith... if he's even still there at #13. He still could certainly go higher. But at this point, we need a RT, and Andre could be a steal at #13.

Only one vote, and that's mine. :P
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Postby SkinsFreak » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:25 pm

Deadskins wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Andre Smith. SkinsFreak talked me into it.


#-o D'oh! Thanks, blame me... :lol:

You were very convincing in the other thread.

SkinsFreak wrote:I'll take... Andre Smith... if he's even still there at #13. He still could certainly go higher. But at this point, we need a RT, and Andre could be a steal at #13.

Only one vote, and that's mine. :P


Oh yeah, I forgot to actually vote. :oops: :lol:

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Postby SkinsFreak » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:50 pm

brad7686 wrote:Cushing showed good agility at the combine, and has the strength/size to fill on the strong side/ rush the passer a bit. Maualuga will struggle to play outside, it doesn't fit his strengths.


I never said that I don't like Cushing, in fact I do. I'm just going off what the guys on the Path To The Draft series have said about Cushing, and they've gone to the tape to make their case. Remember, the tape never lies. To be honest, if the top 3 OT's and Orakpo are gone, and we can't trade down, Cushing very well may be the next best player.

But remember, Cushing has struggled with injuries throughout his career, missing five games due to a shoulder separation in 2005 and three games in 2007 due to a high ankle sprain, as well as undergoing surgery after the 2006 (shoulder) and 2007 (knee) spring practices.

As far as Maualuga is concerned, I mentioned that some folks are talking about him, but from the standpoint that depending on how the draft shakes out on draft day, he may end up being the best available when the Skins are on the clock. He is still the #1 rated ILB and some have said he could play outside if needed. Fletch is getting old and doesn't have many years left, so the notion that the Skins could take Maualuga, play him on the outside for a year, and have an absolute young stud to take over for Fletch is not a stretch. It's not unreasonable to at least consider him, especially if the top players on your board are gone by the time you select.

Rey Maualuga

A more consistent playmaker than Keith Rivers -- selected 10th overall by the Bengals in 2008 -- Maualuga might be the most explosive hitter in the draft. Blessed with a prototypical combination of size and athleticism, Maualuga has the speed to beat the running back wide and the bulk to be a punisher on the inside. Maualuga impressed scouts with his ability to rush the passer during drills at the Senior Bowl and delivered six sacks as a junior (zero as a senior). His penchant for big plays in coverage make him one of the few inside linebackers of this class capable of playing all three downs. A three-time all-conference selection and 2009 All-American, Maualuga is a difference-maker worthy of a top-20 selection in the 2009 draft.

Analysis

Positives: Good initial quickness off the snap. ... Quickly gets to top speed, flashing rare downhill explosiveness for the position. ... Reads the action quickly. ... Willing to take on blocks and has the strength and hand technique to shed quickly. ... Good lateral quickness to evade blockers and has the speed to beat backs to the flanks. ... Gets good depth on his pass drop and is quick to close on the ball. ... Punishing hitter with four career forced fumbles. ... Productive pass rusher with the speed to close on even mobile quarterbacks. ... Can break down in space to make the secure open-field tackle.

Negatives: Has a tendency to overpursue, opening holes in the defense for quick and savvy ballcarriers to exploit. ... Too often relies on his explosive hitting to knock down ballcarriers, rather than wrapping up to make secure tackles.


Link

There are very few negatives in Maualuga's evaluation. I don't think it's a stretch by any means to think he could play outside for a year.

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Postby CanesSkins26 » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:00 pm

Slightly off topic, but have you guys seen the video of Maualuga and Erin Andrews at the Rose Bowl? Pretty damn funny.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdDGYsYXHKc
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Postby SkinsFreak » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:16 pm

Like they always say... the tape never lies. Rey Maualuga IS damn good in coverage and his "game" speed is pretty impressive. And remember, Rey Maualuga was named the winner of the 2008 Chuck Bednarik Award, presented to college football's top defensive player in 2008. Maualuga beat out James Laurinaitis of Ohio State, Aaron Curry of Wake Forrest and Aaron Maybin of Penn State.

Video

Best LB in the draft?

Rey Maualuga: NFL Draft Stock Rising

"I love Rey Maualuga from USC. He's my favorite player in the draft." Gruden proclaimed while commentating at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis. He would go on to joke that he separated his shoulder simply from watching the viscous linebacker on tape. He praised Maualuga's versatility and impact on the game: "This guy will smash you. He's an every-down linebacker. He gets down the middle in Pete Carroll's Cover 2 scheme. He can play in the nickle. He can play in the base. This guy will smash you. He is a heck of a football player. I love this guy." - Jon Gruden on Maualuga

The middle linebacker is arguably the most important position on defense. In fact, the middle linebacker is the QB of the defense. Fletcher is on limited time. If we were to take Maualuga and play him at OLB, you'd then have a year to get him game experience and coached up. As the QB of the defense needs to know all the formations, calls and schemes, a year of experience at OLB would be an exceptional and advantageous way to groom Maualuga to take over at middle linebacker once Fletcher is gone. And for the record, Maualuga is ten times more talented then Blades, who could still be retained for depth and to play OLB.

If Andre Smith and Brian Orakpo are gone, Maualuga is my next choice. Actually, I'm now on the fence and teetering between Smith and Maualuga.

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Postby Countertrey » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:10 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:Like they always say... the tape never lies. Rey Maualuga IS damn good in coverage and his "game" speed is pretty impressive. And remember, Rey Maualuga was named the winner of the 2008 Chuck Bednarik Award, presented to college football's top defensive player in 2008. Maualuga beat out James Laurinaitis of Ohio State, Aaron Curry of Wake Forrest and Aaron Maybin of Penn State.

Video

Best LB in the draft?

Rey Maualuga: NFL Draft Stock Rising

"I love Rey Maualuga from USC. He's my favorite player in the draft." Gruden proclaimed while commentating at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis. He would go on to joke that he separated his shoulder simply from watching the viscous linebacker on tape. He praised Maualuga's versatility and impact on the game: "This guy will smash you. He's an every-down linebacker. He gets down the middle in Pete Carroll's Cover 2 scheme. He can play in the nickle. He can play in the base. This guy will smash you. He is a heck of a football player. I love this guy." - Jon Gruden on Maualuga

The middle linebacker is arguably the most important position on defense. In fact, the middle linebacker is the QB of the defense. Fletcher is on limited time. If we were to take Maualuga and play him at OLB, you'd then have a year to get him game experience and coached up. As the QB of the defense needs to know all the formations, calls and schemes, a year of experience at OLB would be an exceptional and advantageous way to groom Maualuga to take over at middle linebacker once Fletcher is gone. And for the record, Maualuga is ten times more talented then Blades, who could still be retained for depth and to play OLB.

If Andre Smith and Brian Orakpo are gone, Maualuga is my next choice. Actually, I'm now on the fence and teetering between Smith and Maualuga.


Dude, you're snapping around like a wind sock in a tornado... I'm getting dizzy from watching. :lol:

btw, I'd be thrilled with we got Maualuga. He will be a monster, and would bring back that intimidation factor that we lost with the death of Taylor. Clearly, he has the skills to play on the outside while learning his trade as an NFL backer...

I wouldn't have a coniption if they pick up Smith either... but I worry about his work ethic. I know that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. It does make me hopeful, however, that he seemed to apply himself when under supervision... OTOH, when coach wasn't watching...
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Postby fleetus » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:02 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
brad7686 wrote:Cushing showed good agility at the combine, and has the strength/size to fill on the strong side/ rush the passer a bit. Maualuga will struggle to play outside, it doesn't fit his strengths.


I never said that I don't like Cushing, in fact I do. I'm just going off what the guys on the Path To The Draft series have said about Cushing, and they've gone to the tape to make their case. Remember, the tape never lies. To be honest, if the top 3 OT's and Orakpo are gone, and we can't trade down, Cushing very well may be the next best player.

But remember, Cushing has struggled with injuries throughout his career, missing five games due to a shoulder separation in 2005 and three games in 2007 due to a high ankle sprain, as well as undergoing surgery after the 2006 (shoulder) and 2007 (knee) spring practices.

As far as Maualuga is concerned, I mentioned that some folks are talking about him, but from the standpoint that depending on how the draft shakes out on draft day, he may end up being the best available when the Skins are on the clock. He is still the #1 rated ILB and some have said he could play outside if needed. Fletch is getting old and doesn't have many years left, so the notion that the Skins could take Maualuga, play him on the outside for a year, and have an absolute young stud to take over for Fletch is not a stretch. It's not unreasonable to at least consider him, especially if the top players on your board are gone by the time you select.

Rey Maualuga

A more consistent playmaker than Keith Rivers -- selected 10th overall by the Bengals in 2008 -- Maualuga might be the most explosive hitter in the draft. Blessed with a prototypical combination of size and athleticism, Maualuga has the speed to beat the running back wide and the bulk to be a punisher on the inside. Maualuga impressed scouts with his ability to rush the passer during drills at the Senior Bowl and delivered six sacks as a junior (zero as a senior). His penchant for big plays in coverage make him one of the few inside linebackers of this class capable of playing all three downs. A three-time all-conference selection and 2009 All-American, Maualuga is a difference-maker worthy of a top-20 selection in the 2009 draft.

Analysis

Positives: Good initial quickness off the snap. ... Quickly gets to top speed, flashing rare downhill explosiveness for the position. ... Reads the action quickly. ... Willing to take on blocks and has the strength and hand technique to shed quickly. ... Good lateral quickness to evade blockers and has the speed to beat backs to the flanks. ... Gets good depth on his pass drop and is quick to close on the ball. ... Punishing hitter with four career forced fumbles. ... Productive pass rusher with the speed to close on even mobile quarterbacks. ... Can break down in space to make the secure open-field tackle.

Negatives: Has a tendency to overpursue, opening holes in the defense for quick and savvy ballcarriers to exploit. ... Too often relies on his explosive hitting to knock down ballcarriers, rather than wrapping up to make secure tackles.


Link

There are very few negatives in Maualuga's evaluation. I don't think it's a stretch by any means to think he could play outside for a year.


Everything I've read had Maualuga as an inside LB without necessary coverage skills to hang with NFL TE's. And he didn't do much coverage at USC. Now if he does have the speed and could be coached up, I definitely would agree he could be worthy of #13. I love his tenacity on the field. Certainly would be a better gamble than Andre Smith, IMO.
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Postby fleetus » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:24 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:
Tyson Jackson looks like he could be a younger version of Phillip Daniels. This is a compliment, IMO. Unlike Daniels however, Jackson is healthy and durable.


Looking at Daniels 13 year career, he's been pretty durable in his youngers days. I am sure comparing an NFL prospect to a 13 year player is quite valid. -drinking


Either you're conveniently misreading the simple comparison or you're just picking a fight. Whichever, if you look back I've argued vehemently in favor of Daniels. This young guy is simply the same size and has a similar skill set coming out of college. So I was saying, as a DE, he would project as a similar type player plus, being 22 with no durability issues in college, would be more durable than Daniels.
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Postby SkinsFreak » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:35 pm

Countertrey wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:Like they always say... the tape never lies. Rey Maualuga IS damn good in coverage and his "game" speed is pretty impressive. And remember, Rey Maualuga was named the winner of the 2008 Chuck Bednarik Award, presented to college football's top defensive player in 2008. Maualuga beat out James Laurinaitis of Ohio State, Aaron Curry of Wake Forrest and Aaron Maybin of Penn State.

Video

Best LB in the draft?

Rey Maualuga: NFL Draft Stock Rising

"I love Rey Maualuga from USC. He's my favorite player in the draft." Gruden proclaimed while commentating at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis. He would go on to joke that he separated his shoulder simply from watching the viscous linebacker on tape. He praised Maualuga's versatility and impact on the game: "This guy will smash you. He's an every-down linebacker. He gets down the middle in Pete Carroll's Cover 2 scheme. He can play in the nickle. He can play in the base. This guy will smash you. He is a heck of a football player. I love this guy." - Jon Gruden on Maualuga

The middle linebacker is arguably the most important position on defense. In fact, the middle linebacker is the QB of the defense. Fletcher is on limited time. If we were to take Maualuga and play him at OLB, you'd then have a year to get him game experience and coached up. As the QB of the defense needs to know all the formations, calls and schemes, a year of experience at OLB would be an exceptional and advantageous way to groom Maualuga to take over at middle linebacker once Fletcher is gone. And for the record, Maualuga is ten times more talented then Blades, who could still be retained for depth and to play OLB.

If Andre Smith and Brian Orakpo are gone, Maualuga is my next choice. Actually, I'm now on the fence and teetering between Smith and Maualuga.


Dude, you're snapping around like a wind sock in a tornado... I'm getting dizzy from watching. :lol:

btw, I'd be thrilled with we got Maualuga. He will be a monster, and would bring back that intimidation factor that we lost with the death of Taylor. Clearly, he has the skills to play on the outside while learning his trade as an NFL backer...

I wouldn't have a coniption if they pick up Smith either... but I worry about his work ethic. I know that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. It does make me hopeful, however, that he seemed to apply himself when under supervision... OTOH, when coach wasn't watching...


:lol: Ha, that's funny. I'm building my draft board. :D

Well, my thought is that Smith may be gone by #13. Even though his stock has fallen a bit, they're still talking about him as a top ten pick. I think teams realize that even with the work ethic concerns, he's still extremely talented with a ton of natural ability.

So if he's gone, which I'm thinking he might be, Maualuga is my choice. I absolutely agree with you that Rey "would be a monster, and would bring back that intimidation factor that we lost with the death of Taylor". I was thinking the very same thing. Our defense would be nasty with the addition of Maualuga. He definitely has the sideline-to-sideline speed, so I believe he'd be fine at OLB while grooming to take over the middle. And let's not forget, in Blache's 4-3 scheme, he likes to rush the strong side backer quite often, as he did with Marcus, to disrupt the backfield and eliminate RB sweeps or screens.
Last edited by SkinsFreak on Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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