Kiper Mock Draft: Skins pick Sanchez

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Postby CanesSkins26 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:33 am

The only two sources for all of this comes from JLC and Peter King.


Not completely true. The main source for the Cutler rumors was the DC Examiner, not the Post or CNNSI. Mel Kiper, along with JLC and Peter King, has been saying that the Skins are very interested in Mark Sanchez. I'm sure that you are right about the fact that plenty of media outlets are using the Post reports as a basis for their information, but I would imagine that Kiper has his own sources and doesn't need to use JLC's reporting as a basis for his mock drafts and opinions. I'm not sure about this but I thought that I read somewhere that Kiper is close with Cerrato, so if he says that the Skins have serious interest in Sanchez I would tend to believe him. Kiper isn't always right, but more so than other journalists he doesn't usually just throw stuff out there to see if it will stick.
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Postby frankcal20 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:06 am

Kilmer72 wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
Peter King wrote:I spoke to someone close to Snyder over the weekend, and this person said Snyder is not going to allow next year's first-rounder to be put in a trade. Maybe. Maybe not. This person also said he thought it was highly unlikely the Redskins could muster up the ammo to go get Sanchez. If Snyder wants to get up to No. 3 to assure himself the shot at Sanchez, he's going to have to bend and give up the to pick in 2010.


Link

Shockingly, Peter King doesn't believe his own source.


If we do end up with Sanchez and he starts...I just hope people can give him 3 years under the same system without calling for his head or saying he sucks. At some point you have to settle for someone.


So Sanchez is allowed to have more opportunity than JC has been given? JC gets 3 years under 3 different systems. NICE!!!

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Postby skinsfan#33 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:32 am

frankcal20 wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
Peter King wrote:I spoke to someone close to Snyder over the weekend, and this person said Snyder is not going to allow next year's first-rounder to be put in a trade. Maybe. Maybe not. This person also said he thought it was highly unlikely the Redskins could muster up the ammo to go get Sanchez. If Snyder wants to get up to No. 3 to assure himself the shot at Sanchez, he's going to have to bend and give up the to pick in 2010.


Link

Shockingly, Peter King doesn't believe his own source.


If we do end up with Sanchez and he starts...I just hope people can give him 3 years under the same system without calling for his head or saying he sucks. At some point you have to settle for someone.


So Sanchez is allowed to have more opportunity than JC has been given? JC gets 3 years under 3 different systems. NICE!!!


Actually the count on JC is 3 years under 2 systems, not 3. Or you could count it four years under 3 systems, but that would be misleading since he never made the active line up in any game in 2005 (3rd QBs aren't considered active)

He played under Saunder's system in 2006 and 2007 and JZ's in 2008.

Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco seamed to do pretty well under new systems!

Sanchez should be given more time, because he has a lot less experience than JC did coming out of college. It doesn't matter anyway, he won't be drafted by the Skins.
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Postby SkinsFreak » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:33 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
The only two sources for all of this comes from JLC and Peter King.


Not completely true. The main source for the Cutler rumors was the DC Examiner, not the Post or CNNSI.


Show me where they were the first to report it. Media outlets have directly said... "according to the Washington Post." Not once has anyone mentioned the DC Examiner. Most, if not all, media outlets say where they got the info... for example...

Link wrote:"Some league insiders" believe the Redskins' sudden heavy interest in USC QB Mark Sanchez is a smokescreen, according to Profootballtalk.com.
Reports of Washington's pursuit of Sanchez come from the Washington Post and SI.com's Peter King. The Skins typically are straightforward about interest in players.


But regardless, you seem to be missing my point. I'm not disputing their reports that the Redskins inquired about Cutler or that the Redskins interviewed Sanchez over dinner. The Skins have publicly admitted that. What I am disputing are the absolutes that the Skins offered JC and two 1st rounders for Cutler or that the Skins are absolutely willing to trade two 1st rounders to move up and draft Sanchez. King and JLC don't know that or anything about what was offered, yet they report it as gospel and fans like you latch onto it and hold it against the Skins, when, in fact, most reports were exaggerated and had no truth to them at all.

And as far as this weekend goes, while JLC and King absolutely assure us that Snyder is "smitten" with Sanchez and will trade up for him, "league insiders" believe it's just a smokescreen. I'm willing to bet King and JLC are wrong again and Snyder doesn't trade away two 1st rounders to move up to draft Sanchez. We'll see.

Skins' Sanchez Interest a Smokescreen?

Posted Apr 20, 2009 2:45PM By Matt Snyder (RSS feed)

Filed Under: Redskins, NFC East, NFL Draft, NFL Rumors

Late last week, some reports were surfacing that the nothing-if-not-fickle Dan Snyder (no relation) was cherishing the thought of Mark Sanchez in Washington. Now, in a shocking development, it appears many around the league don't believe this man-crush is real. Put succinctly, league "insiders" think Snyder is bluffing.

It's possible the Redskins are either: simply trying to motivate Jason Campbell, trying to spark some sort of trade involving the pick and/or Sanchez, or simply just playing mind-games with the rest of the league. I mean, seriously, are we to believe that Snyder would be anything other than totally honest and up-front about it with the public? C'mon!

I think most of us could agree that the drafting of Sanchez would make little sense for the Redskins as currently constructed. Campbell is still longing for consecutive seasons in the same offensive system, and he's shown flashes of what can be a very productive NFL quarterback. There's no reason to either start over or irk him by drafting Sanchez. You shouldn't need to "motivate" a guy by threatening to spend a first-round pick on a passer, either.

We'll see how things unfold Saturday, but the smart money is on the Redskins looking for offensive tackle depth, an outside pass rusher, or trading the pick.


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Postby ChocolateMilk » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:49 am

SkinsFreak wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
The only two sources for all of this comes from JLC and Peter King.


Not completely true. The main source for the Cutler rumors was the DC Examiner, not the Post or CNNSI.


Show me where they were the first to report it. Media outlets have directly said... "according to the Washington Post." Not once has anyone mentioned the DC Examiner. Most, if not all, media outlets say where they got the info... for example...

Link wrote:"Some league insiders" believe the Redskins' sudden heavy interest in USC QB Mark Sanchez is a smokescreen, according to Profootballtalk.com.
Reports of Washington's pursuit of Sanchez come from the Washington Post and SI.com's Peter King. The Skins typically are straightforward about interest in players.


But regardless, you seem to be missing my point. I'm not disputing their reports that the Redskins inquired about Cutler or that the Redskins interviewed Sanchez over dinner. The Skins have publicly admitted that. What I am disputing are the absolutes that the Skins offered JC and two 1st rounders for Cutler or that the Skins are absolutely willing to trade two 1st rounders to move up and draft Sanchez. King and JLC don't know that or anything about what was offered, yet they report it as gospel and fans like you latch onto it and hold it against the Skins, when, in fact, most reports were exaggerated and had no truth to them at all.

And as far as this weekend goes, while JLC and King absolutely assure us that Snyder is "smitten" with Sanchez and will trade up for him, "league insiders" believe it's just a smokescreen. I'm willing to bet King and JLC are wrong again and Snyder doesn't trade away two 1st rounders to move up to draft Sanchez. We'll see.

Skins' Sanchez Interest a Smokescreen?

Posted Apr 20, 2009 2:45PM By Matt Snyder (RSS feed)

Filed Under: Redskins, NFC East, NFL Draft, NFL Rumors

Late last week, some reports were surfacing that the nothing-if-not-fickle Dan Snyder (no relation) was cherishing the thought of Mark Sanchez in Washington. Now, in a shocking development, it appears many around the league don't believe this man-crush is real. Put succinctly, league "insiders" think Snyder is bluffing.

It's possible the Redskins are either: simply trying to motivate Jason Campbell, trying to spark some sort of trade involving the pick and/or Sanchez, or simply just playing mind-games with the rest of the league. I mean, seriously, are we to believe that Snyder would be anything other than totally honest and up-front about it with the public? C'mon!

I think most of us could agree that the drafting of Sanchez would make little sense for the Redskins as currently constructed. Campbell is still longing for consecutive seasons in the same offensive system, and he's shown flashes of what can be a very productive NFL quarterback. There's no reason to either start over or irk him by drafting Sanchez. You shouldn't need to "motivate" a guy by threatening to spend a first-round pick on a passer, either.

We'll see how things unfold Saturday, but the smart money is on the Redskins looking for offensive tackle depth, an outside pass rusher, or trading the pick.


Link
Yeah I'm with you on that. King and JLC are infamous for being haters and making mountains out of anthills.
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Postby CanesSkins26 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 11:59 am

But regardless, you seem to be missing my point. I'm not disputing their reports that the Redskins inquired about Cutler or that the Redskins interviewed Sanchez over dinner. The Skins have publicly admitted that. What I am disputing are the absolutes that the Skins offered JC and two 1st rounders for Cutler or that the Skins are absolutely willing to trade two 1st rounders to move up and draft Sanchez. King and JLC don't know that or anything about what was offered, yet they report it as gospel and fans like you latch onto it and hold it against the Skins, when, in fact, most reports were exaggerated and had no truth to them at all.

And as far as this weekend goes, while JLC and King absolutely assure us that Snyder is "smitten" with Sanchez and will trade up for him, "league insiders" believe it's just a smokescreen. I'm willing to bet King and JLC are wrong again and Snyder doesn't trade away two 1st rounders to move up to draft Sanchez. We'll see.


I agree with most of what you wrote about JLC and King. My reason for thinking that the Skins want JC and reason for believing that they will at least explore trading up for him is because of the reports that I have seen from Mel Kiper about it. For example...

But the thing is, Kiper doesn't think Sanchez actually will drop to No. 13. He just thinks Washington will end up with him. So look for a trade that allows the Redskins to move into the top 10 to take Sanchez.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/news/story?id=4056535
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Postby CanesSkins26 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:11 pm

Show me where they were the first to report it.


On March 17th, the DC Examiner posted the following article...

Do Skins want Cutler?
By: John Keim
Examiner Staff Writer
03/17/09 5:48 PM


Source says Washington has serious interest in QB

The Redskins have serious interest in Denver quarterback Jay Cutler, an NFL source said Tuesday, and have entered talks about a possible three-way deal to acquire him.

Two NFL sources confirmed the possibility of a three-way trade, with Kansas City being mentioned by one source as a possibility.

The Redskins, through a team spokesman, denied interest in Cutler. However, a league source was adamant that Washington has shown interest.

“They’re trying to do something,” one NFL source said of the Redskins.

“Whether or not it materializes is another matter, but [Redskins owner Dan Snyder] is on this hard. They don’t trust Jason Campbell.”

Cutler is involved in a dispute with Denver after the Broncos had discussions about trading him to New England for quarterback Matt Cassel.

First-year Broncos coach Josh McDaniels met with Culter this past weekend. Afterward, Cutler said he could not trust McDaniels and wanted to be traded.

Denver has said they don’t want to trade Cutler for draft picks, meaning the Redskins or the third team would have to surrender at least one top player. The Redskins could also end up with Denver tight end Tony Scheffler, who is represented by the same agent as Culter — Bus Cook.

Fueling the speculation is the close relationship between former Denver coach Mike Shanahan and Redskins executive vice president Vinny Cerrato. Shanahan, who traded several times with Cerrato while with Denver, could provide the endorsement needed for Cutler.

Also, after the season Cerrato gave Campbell a tepid endorsement as Washington’s quarterback of the future. Campbell is entering the last year of his contract and the Redskins have not had discussions about extending his deal.

Redskins coach Jim Zorn has praised Campbell publicly this offseason.
The strong-armed Cutler, 25, made the Pro Bowl this past season after throwing 25 touchdowns and 18 interceptions. In three seasons he’s tossed 54 touchdowns and 37 interceptions. In 16 games this past season, Campbell threw 13 touchdowns and six interceptions.

Cutler signed a six-year, $48-million contract in 2006. Campbell has a base salary of $2.5 million this season with a cap number of $7.5 million.

Examiner columnist Rick Snider contributed to this report.


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sports/Do-Skins-want-Cutler-41399007.html

On March 20th, the Post had this...

The Jay Cutler Speculation: We continue to hear nothing tangible about this "trade" whatsoever.



On April 1 from the Post...

At this point, our reporting gives us no reason to believe that anything has changed concerning the Redskins' thinking on Denver quarterback Jay Cutler. At the owners' meetings a week ago in California, Coach Jim Zorn said the team had no interest in Cutler. And Vinny Cerrato, the team's executive vice president of football operations, said the same thing on March 17.



Also on April 1 from the Post...

The Washington Redskins are actively pursuing a trade for disgruntled Denver Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler tonight, according to NFL sources.


The Examiner had the Post beat by about two weeks on this story.
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Postby SkinsFreak » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:03 pm

:lol: Dude, sorry you went and wasted your time researching and posting that stuff, but that's not what I'm talking about. I said I'm not disputing that the Skins had interest. Hell.. any of us could have reported that.

Go back and read my initial post from today regarding the smokescreen. I'm talking about the reports from King and JLC regarding the actual trade offerings, the "absolute assurance" that the Skins allegedly offered all these 1st rounders and players for Cutler and a similar package to trade up for Sanchez. King and JLC are the ones that started that rumor, yet they have no idea what the Skins offered for Cutler or if they are serious about Sanchez. They use that stuff as another bridge to attack the Redskins, yet there's no merit to their allegations at all. And if the Skins were to tell anyone, those two haters would be the last on the list to get that story from the Redskins.

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Postby SkinsFreak » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:14 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:I agree with most of what you wrote about JLC and King. My reason for thinking that the Skins want JC and reason for believing that they will at least explore trading up for him is because of the reports that I have seen from Mel Kiper about it. For example...

But the thing is, Kiper doesn't think Sanchez actually will drop to No. 13. He just thinks Washington will end up with him. So look for a trade that allows the Redskins to move into the top 10 to take Sanchez.


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/news/story?id=4056535


Right. He doesn't think Sanchez will be available at #13, but he's seen the reports from King and the Post about Snyder allegedly being "smitten" with Sanchez, so he just throws out the caveat that he thinks the Skins will end up with him.

Dude, Kiper is guessing just like everyone else. He is guessing and can be wrong, he has no accountability. From Scott Campbell, our Director of Player Personnel...

Let me ask you this, then: this week, and the last month or whatever, we as fans read on mock drafts that such-and-such a guy is falling, or that he's 'shooting up draft boards'. Stuff like that. If it's the end result of such a long process, how does that happen? Or does it actually happen at all?

Campbell: "Well, those guys that say things like that aren't accountable to anybody, and they can basically change. A lot of those guys, if you watch, they'll have their rankings up during the season. And I guarantee you right now, it looks nothing like what they were saying before.

"So that's really why you wait til the end to have all the information to get your final board set. There's no reason to be setting it early in the fall until you've had time to investigate it. Those guys can be wrong next fall and they're still gonna be on TV telling you who's falling, who's rising next April. I think it's just an accountability issue."


You talk about 'Redskins grades'. But you look across mock drafts, and there's a lot of similarity in who gets what grades from the prognosticators. How can so many different people, with so many different needs, look at all these guys and grade them out the same way?

Campbell: "I think it's often easy to see who the really, really good players are. That's not that hard -- most fans can watch and tell you who the best players are playing on our team right now. Who the best are at Virginia Tech, or over at Maryland. They can tell you that. So I don't think that's the hard part.

"What they don't have access to is the background information. They don't know who is hurt all the time. Who doesn't practice. Who is high maintenance, and who's the locker room lawyer. Who you can't give too much information to, because they can't learn it.

"The fans don't know all that, and that's what we've gathered from all of our research.


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Postby CanesSkins26 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:49 pm

Right. He doesn't think Sanchez will be available at #13, but he's seen the reports from King and the Post about Snyder allegedly being "smitten" with Sanchez, so he just throws out the caveat that he thinks the Skins will end up with him.


That is your opinion. You have absolutely no way of knowing who Kiper talks to and who his sources are. For all we know, he could just be going off of the Post. On the other hand, seeing as how he is close to Vinny and has been doing this for a long time, he could have solid inside information on the Skins interest in Sanchez. None of us know which one it actually is. Generally speaking, Kiper doesn't throw out baseless rumors the way that JLC and King have in the past, so I tend to believe him when he talks about this stuff.
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Postby Gibbs4Life » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:00 pm

Two things...

First, you can never have too many good QB's.

Second, anyone who thinks we should'nt go oline first should put on the tape of us against baltimore, esp. the part where (I think it was Geisenger) goes out to play left tackle and tries to block Terrell Suggs. That was embarrassing.
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Postby SkinsFreak » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:26 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Right. He doesn't think Sanchez will be available at #13, but he's seen the reports from King and the Post about Snyder allegedly being "smitten" with Sanchez, so he just throws out the caveat that he thinks the Skins will end up with him.


That is your opinion. You have absolutely no way of knowing who Kiper talks to and who his sources are. For all we know, he could just be going off of the Post. On the other hand, seeing as how he is close to Vinny and has been doing this for a long time, he could have solid inside information on the Skins interest in Sanchez. None of us know which one it actually is. Generally speaking, Kiper doesn't throw out baseless rumors the way that JLC and King have in the past, so I tend to believe him when he talks about this stuff.


<sigh> dude, c'mon... Kiper, McShay, Mayock, Casserly... ... yeah, these guys talk to folks around the league. But they are simply talent evaluators and NONE of them have ANY direct or credible information coming from specific draft rooms. These guys have no idea who teams are actually targeting. Draft boards are like gold bricks at Fort Knox.

Sure, they can look at the top of the draft, identify the best players and link them with team needs. But unless a team signs a player before the draft, like in the case with the Dolphins and Jake Long last year, these guys like Kiper are speculating based off their evaluations. Teams don't talk unless it's meant as misdirection. Kiper is on the TV everyday, he'd be the last person teams would release credible draft desires or strategies to.

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Postby El Mexican » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:35 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
Right. He doesn't think Sanchez will be available at #13, but he's seen the reports from King and the Post about Snyder allegedly being "smitten" with Sanchez, so he just throws out the caveat that he thinks the Skins will end up with him.


That is your opinion. You have absolutely no way of knowing who Kiper talks to and who his sources are. For all we know, he could just be going off of the Post. On the other hand, seeing as how he is close to Vinny and has been doing this for a long time, he could have solid inside information on the Skins interest in Sanchez. None of us know which one it actually is. Generally speaking, Kiper doesn't throw out baseless rumors the way that JLC and King have in the past, so I tend to believe him when he talks about this stuff.


<sigh> dude, c'mon... Kiper, McShay, Mayock, Casserly... ... yeah, these guys talk to folks around the league. But they are simply talent evaluators and NONE of them have ANY direct or credible information coming from specific draft rooms. These guys have no idea who teams are actually targeting. Draft boards are like gold bricks at Fort Knox.

Sure, they can look at the top of the draft, identify the best players and link them with team needs. But unless a team signs a player before the draft, like in the case with the Dolphins and Jake Long last year, these guys like Kiper are speculating based off their evaluations. Teams don't talk unless it's meant as misdirection. Kiper is on the TV everyday, he'd be the last person teams would release credible draft desires or strategies to.
It´s irrelevant what the Skins offered Denver in exchange for Cutler.

The fact is they TRIED to get Cutler and then softened the whole thing by having a private talk Campbell. It's just a minor footnote if they offered 1 or 2 first rounders or a box of shoes.

The bottom line is that ARE interested in changing the QB position and this new Sanchez episode just adds more fuel to the fire.

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Postby SkinsFreak » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:50 am

El Mexican wrote: and this new Sanchez episode just adds more fuel to the fire.


That's my point. You don't know, if in fact, they actually have interest in Sanchez or if it's simply a smokescreen, as many league insiders now think it is.

This is merely hypothetical, but we have no idea if our FO met with JC and said... "hey Jason, this is top secret, but we want to target a top OT or Orakpo in the draft and we may have to trade up to get one of those guys. But to do so, we are going to bluff by showing interest in Sanchez, but you're our guy and we have no intention of taking a QB." That's certainly plausible, teams do that stuff all the time.

Again, as I've said before, it's simply due diligence to inquire about Cutler, and JC knows that. Obviously, the team didn't feel comfortable with what Denver wanted for Cutler and they DIDN'T make the trade. I still find it funny that folks latch onto the rumors but ignore the tangible evidence.

The Skins took Sanchez to dinner. So did more than half the teams in the league. The Skins interviewed Sanchez. So did 31 other teams. But some of these reporters are saying the Skins will trade two 1st rounders to move up for him. Who at Redskins Park told them that? That's the point. They're speculating and guessing, yet they assert absolutes. If the Skins draft someone other than Sanchez, I'll find it pretty funning that these guys were bluffed so easily.

We'll see what happens this weekend with Sanchez. If the Skins trade up and take him, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. But I seriously doubt it will happen.

Michael Wilbon made a good point about this...

They're going to try and get Mark Sanchez of Southern Cal; what are you talking about? Dan Snyder seems obsessed with getting this kid, who might be a good quarterback one day, but might not. He's not any different from Jason Campbell in that regard. Big, strong, big arm, works hard. Okay, the Redskins have that already. So why would you give up multiple draft picks and or players to get what you already have?

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Postby DEHog » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:12 am

Anyone remember 2004 when the Skins went to Miami for their pro day…All they did was watch and talk with Winslow a lot of mocks had us taking KW…
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