How to Build a Consistent Winning Team

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How to Build a Consistent Winning Team

Postby Red_One43 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:04 am

What is the best way to build a winning franchise? The Patriots, Colts, Steelers, Eagles and Packers have the best records for the 2000's decade. If they miss the play-offs one year they bounce back the next.

What do these franchises have in common that keeps them winning year after year?

1. A strong FO - they always have a plan - long range and short range. They stress continuity.
2. They grown their own players - Almost all of their starters for 2010 were either drafted by them or were UDFAs. Indy only had one starter drafted by another team (Justin Tryon). Packers had 4, Pats- 3, and Steelers 3. Eagles had 5. They are not big players in the free agent market - they concentrate on signing their own. Once again, Philly is a bit different. Perhaps this is why they have not won a Super Bowl like the others and are not perceived as a top Franchise like the others.
3. Excellent Coaching Staff ( not just the the HC but the Coordinators as well)
4. Try to avoid overpaying players that aren't key to the team's success - they know when to let players move on.
5. Top 10 Talent at Key positions especially QB.

Look at the Redskins Front Office concernng the draft and free agency.
1. Our FO has a plan both short run and long run and they are stressing continuity. Put us in great position for free agency. Did a lot with so little for the draft.
2. It looks like we are in the beginning stages of growing our own players.
3. Coaching Staff? Leaving my bias out - we have something to prove here
4. We aren't overpaying players - We didn't chase after the big name players with money. We have learned to use free agency to fill needs. We allowed our free agents to test the market so we pay market value.
5. We lack top 10 talent at key positions especially QB - but there is next years draft.

Despite fans wishes to make the big splash in free agency, the Redskins have stuck with the plan to be a winner throughout the next decade. Shanny says 3-4 years. This is just year 2 of the Mike and Bruce Show.

Now let's tackle the MTYH of talent - having the best players at each position.

I have heard a lot of arguments on this site that the best talent is needed to win. That is not the case. The top decade teams don't necessarily draft the most talented guys at their positions. They target guys that fit their scheme and can be coached - they often produce the most talented at their positions. I looked at the starters of the 2010 versions of these teams and I found no more 1st round and 2nd round talent than the other teams. The difference in the starters on these teams is almost all of them are home grown, fit the scheme and are well coached. The Skins actually led the way with 12 former 1st rounders as starters. Pittsburgh - 9, GB - 7, Colts and Eagles - 6, NE-5.
Eagles and Redskins led the way with 7 UDFA starters. NE - 6, Colts - 6, GB-4, Pit - 4.

Translate all of that to Pro Bowl player for 2010:
Atl - 9 (Tops in the NFL), NE- 8 (2nd in NFL), GB-6 (tied for 3rd with KC and Dallas), Colts-5, Eagles-5 (NYG and NO had 5), Steelers-4 (6 other teams had 4) and Redskins - 3 (one less than the Steelers). Even though the Steelers had the most first round talent of the top decade teams, they had the fewest Pro Bowlers and still went to the Super Bowl.
Cowboys were tied for third with 6 Pro Bowlers yet finished with a 6-10 record and split with the Redskins. It ain't all about talent.


Below is a breakdown of starters by rounds they were drafted. There may be more than 22 starters because the injury replacement player was included. Also, UDFA may or may not have been home grown.
Along with the top five decade teams, I included the 2010 New Orleans Saints and the 2010 Redskins just to have as a comparison. Included the 1991 Redskins for comparison. The 1982 Redskin team was an anamoly with only 8 players in the top 3 rounds compared to the 1982 Dolphins with 14 which around what all of other sample teams have (I did not include the 1982 Dolphins as a sample team but include the link)
Why didn't the Redskin dynasty last into the 90s?

2010 Super Bowl Champion Green Bay Packers
Decade Record: 105-71
Starters on Roster By Round
1 RD - 7
2 RD - 5
3 RD - 1
4 RD - 1
5 RD - 2
6 RD - 2
7 RD - 3
UDFA - 4

4 draftees drafted by other teams

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm

2010 AFC Champion Pittsburgh Steelers
Record: 115-60-1
RD
1 -- 9
2 -- 2
3 -- 3
4 -- 3
5 -- 1
6 -- 1
7 -- 2
UDFA - 3

3 draftees drafted by other teams

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm

2010 New England Patriots
Record: 126-50
RD
1 -- 5
2 -- 5
3 -- 1
4 -- 2
5 -- 2
6 -- 1
7 -- 1
UDFA - 6
3 draftees drafted by other teams

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm

2010 Indianaplis Colts
Record: 125-51
RD
1 -- 6
2 -- 4
3 -- 2
4 -- 5
5 -- 2
6 -- 3
7 -- 1
UDFA - 6
1 draftee drafted by another team

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm

2010 New Orleans Saints
Record: 94-82
RD
1 -- 7
2 -- 5
3 -- 3
4 -- 3
5 -- 2
6 -- 0
7 -- 3
UDFA - 3
9 draftees drafted by other teams

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm

2010 Philadelphia Eagles
Record: 113-62-1
RD
1 -- 6
2 -- 5
3 -- 2
4 -- 5
5 -- 3
6 -- 0
7 -- 2
UDFA- 7
5 draftees drafted by other teams

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm

2010 Washington Redskins
Record: 76-100
RD
1 -- 12
2 -- 3
3 -- 2
4 -- 1
5 -- 1
6 -- 3
7 -- 0
UDFA - 7

12 draftees drafted by other teams

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm

1991 Super Bowl Champion Washington Redskins
RD
1 -- 5
2 -- 5
3 -- 2
4 -- 1
5 -- 0
6 -- 2
7 -- 0
8 -- 0
9 -- 1
10 -- 4
11 -- 1
12 -- 1
UDFA - 3

11 draftees drafted by other teams

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm

1982 Super Bowl Champion Washington Redskins
RD
1 -- 4
2 -- 3
3 -- 1
4 -- 4
5 -- 1
6 -- 2
7 -- 2
8 -- 1
9 -- 0
10-- 0
11-- 1
12 -- 0
UDFA - 7

7 draftees drafted byother teams

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm

1982 Dolphin's link:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... roster.htm

Pro Bowl selections for 2010 by team:

AFC Team Selections NFC Team Selections
New England Patriots 8 Atlanta Falcons 9
Kansas City Chiefs 6 Dallas Cowboys 6
Baltimore Ravens 5 Green Bay Packers 6
Indianapolis Colts 5 New Orleans Saints 5
Miami Dolphins 4 New York Giants 5
Oakland Raiders 4 Philadelphia Eagles 5
Pittsburgh Steelers 4 Chicago Bears 4
San Diego Chargers 4 Minnesota Vikings 4
Tennessee Titans 4 Arizona Cardinals 3
Houston Texans 3 Carolina Panthers 3
Jacksonville Jaguars 3 Washington Redskins 3
New York Jets 3 Detroit Lions 2
Cleveland Browns 2 San Francisco 49ers 2
Denver Broncos 2 St. Louis Rams 1
Buffalo Bills 1 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1
Cincinnati Bengals 0 Seattle Seahawks 0

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Postby SkinsJock » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:18 pm

It's really fairly easy - we do not need to do anything like any other franchise - just because what worked for them does NOT mean it will work here

WE JUST NEED TO STOP DOING WHAT WE WERE DOING

AND

GIVE THIS FO TIME TO FINISH WHAT THEY'VE STARTED



like the ad says - "that was easy" :lol:

although it is fun for some to over analyse EVERYTHING :roll:
When you're dead you don't know you're dead, it's only difficult for others.
It's kind of the same as when you're stupid!

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Postby Skinsfan55 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:20 pm

Yeah, I am not expecting much of an improvement over last season, but I do think the FO is building a younger team with a long term philosophy.

They might win 6 games again, but they're going to come out of it with some long lasting role players (Hankerson, Jenkins?) and hopefully a star or two (Kerrigan, Williams)

Once next season comes I think we'll be poised to add a few more role guys, put together a nice draft and add a QB to be playoff contenders.
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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:45 pm

Skinsfan55 wrote:Yeah, I am not expecting much of an improvement over last season, but I do think the FO is building a younger team with a long term philosophy.

They might win 6 games again, but they're going to come out of it with some long lasting role players (Hankerson, Jenkins?) and hopefully a star or two (Kerrigan, Williams)

Once next season comes I think we'll be poised to add a few more role guys, put together a nice draft and add a QB to be playoff contenders.


I think we'll do better then 6. 7. Maybe even 8. But I think it's more important that we develop and start to establish some of the young players. Even if somehow we lucked into the playoffs we're not going to go anywhere. Better to build and improve this year.
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Postby Red_One43 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:22 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
It's really fairly easy - we do not need to do anything like any other franchise - just because what worked for them does NOT mean it will work here


I am glad that Shanny does not agree with what you are saying here, SkinsJock. Guess what two teams Shanny visited during his year away from Football? Pats and Steelers? Why? This is a copy cat league. The model of the Pats, Colts and Steelers has continued through QB changes, Coaching changes and player changes, but the formula has stayed the same - Have A Plan and Grow your Own. Let me add another - No Drama within the team and FO- Philly continues to wrap itself in drama. Philly had constant drama with McNabb and it seemed to follow him here.
The Top 5 team records of the decade - 1.NE 2. Indy 3. Pit 4. Philly and 5. GB - only Philly has not won a SB even though they have followed the model.

WE JUST NEED TO STOP DOING WHAT WE WERE DOING

AND

GIVE THIS FO TIME TO FINISH WHAT THEY'VE STARTED


We have stopped what we were doing. The draft and free agency startegy proved that. Shanny will get his time to finish. It may not look like the model now, but it will. *Growiing our own talent - Starting next year. *Free agency-- Not for overpriced players making much more than others - it will be for filling holes - Started both counts. *Only over the market priced vets to be signed in FA are key personnel ie. Colts signing Veneteri. - No over the market price signings as of yet for us. *Let talent go that is disruptive to the team and wants more money i.e. Carlos Rogers. - Started. *We will re-sign our talent - Moss and Brown - Started. *Our identity will be work ethic guys working toward the goal of winning - Started. *No Drama - Haynesworth and McNabb - gone - Started. *Franchise QB - Looking. *Strong FO - Started. You might not recognize it, but this is the model. What you see Philly doing is breaking ranks from the model. Even if they do win this year, they may have mortgaged the future. That is a gamble that a coach on the last year of his contract will take. This is not the sign of a strong FO.


like the ad says - "that was easy" :lol:

although it is fun for some to over analyse EVERYTHING :roll:


Yeah, it sounds so easy and it should be and when the Skins improve this year and contend for a play-off next year, we will see just how easy it is when the model is followed, but my question, why is it taking so long for other frranchises to learn what 4 out of our top 5 best record of the decade teams have learned.

Up and coming:

Baltimore - may be a Franchise QB away - solid FO

Can they sustain it?:

Atlanta - They have the QB
Giants - Were on the cusp, but seem to be faltering

Couldn't sustain it (Had a SB appearance in the 2000's)

Titans, Seahawks, Bears, Panthers, Bucs, Rams, Raiders and Cardinals

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Postby gibbsfan » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:55 pm

im with others up here i like what they are starting to do with this front office as compared to the past. i hope it continues and patience is the key for the organization and fans .
we are getting closer now with the moves they made this year thru the draft and free agency and if they stay the course we will se consistency on the field too.
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Postby SkinsJock » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:32 pm

first off - I do NOT ascribe to "it's a copy cat league" - these guys learn from the mistakes of other franchises, MORE THAN what worked elsewhere

I think that Mike's 'visits' and 'information gathered' from other franchises is ONLY important as to what he can gain from that as it applies to our franchise and not so much as to what "works" for them

I'm looking forward to this FO & this coaching staff producing on the field with our guys - NOT what they could do with another teams guys

we need to add some pieces but we also are trying to overcome years of BAD management by dumb & dumber



it will take time - we all are just fans and are not very patient



this FO is getting this franchise back together again - I'm looking forward to this season

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Postby Red_One43 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:14 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
first off - I do NOT ascribe to "it's a copy cat league" - these guys learn from the mistakes of other franchises, MORE THAN what worked elsewhere


Point noted, but when a team wins a Super Bowl especially multiple ones.. Other teams often show up with the same kind of offense or defense. 49ers - West Coast Offense is an example. Other teams - Let's hire a coach from Bill Walsh and get our own WC offense. Is that copy catting? Depends on how you define it. I define it that way. Why did Shanny switch to the 3-4, I believe that it was as a result of his visits with Pitsburgh and NE. Copy Cat.

I think that Mike's 'visits' and 'information gathered' from other franchises is ONLY important as to what he can gain from that as it applies to our franchise and not so much as to what "works" for them


What works for "them" is growing your own talent and that applies to everyone if they can stay away from throwing money at the big stars. When Shanny was with Denver, at one point 3/4 of his D line was from Cleveland and none of them panned out. Watch him now. Seeking young second tier FAs and virtually standing pat with his O line so they can grow and jell together. These young guys will now develop under Shanny's system and they should be here for awhile. He is also signing his own guys back, at least the ones that fit his work ethic AND were key like Moss who isn't old but is certainly key.

I'm looking forward to this FO & this coaching staff producing on the field with our guys - NOT what they could do with another teams guys


This statement seems to tell me that you are misinterpreting what I said. (My bad for not being more precise) We need to grow our own and not deviate like Philly is doing this year. That is one of the two main ingredients. The other is a strong FO with a plan that they stick to. I think we are in agreement here.

we need to add some pieces but we also are trying to overcome years of BAD management by dumb & dumber


And we will watch the process get even better next draft and next free agent period - of course with free agency first, it will be better.

it will take time - we all are just fans and are not very patient

this FO is getting this franchise back together again - I'm looking forward to this season


Yes, it will take time, but you and I and others on this site will not be shocked if the Skins do better than expected this year.

Remember as George Allen said as the Skins were about to face Dallas for the NFC Championship, "Forty guystogether can't lose!" Shanny is preaching to his players - 53 strong work ethic guys whose goal is to win will win. It's still a team game.

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Postby SkinsJock » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:37 am

no worries - we're 'together' on the FO and progress so far

I will add that the lockout and the time lost really affected a lot of the decision making and that has contributed to these guys sticking with some players and not being able to fully check out some prospects


all I'm looking for this season is more progress and I think that we'll be a lot happier with the status of our franchise as these guys (both players and coaches) develop together


I am totally in favor of developing our own players
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Postby Red_One43 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:54 am

SkinsJock wrote:I will add that the lockout and the time lost really affected a lot of the decision making and that has contributed to these guys sticking with some players and not being able to fully check out some prospects


Love to have a do over and had free agency before the draft. I think we would have seen a different approach from Mike. He could have been more willinging to spend on some free agents because they would have been worth the investment given the time to learn the system. What would have been interesting to know is would Mike have gone after a vet QB to get us through this season. We will never know.

The beauty will be, after our surprisingly good performance this year, is the off-season next year. It should be a more meticulous pick the pieces - more quality than quantity.

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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:02 am

Red_One43 wrote:What would have been interesting to know is would Mike have gone after a vet QB to get us through this season. We will never know


You make good points in other areas, but on this one I think we do know. He wasn't enamored with what he could get either in the draft or in free agency for what it costs and compared to what we have. I don't see how reversing the order would change that.
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Postby Red_One43 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:29 am

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:What would have been interesting to know is would Mike have gone after a vet QB to get us through this season. We will never know


You make good points in other areas, but on this one I think we do know. He wasn't enamored with what he could get either in the draft or in free agency for what it costs and compared to what we have. I don't see how reversing the order would change that.


I think that you are right. Shanny needs to know what Beck can do it and this is the year to find out. Most likely he was committed to this regardlesss of the lockout. My comment above is a classic case of wanting to find Shanny an excuse for what seems like for us a risky venture going into the season with Beck and Grossman as the leading candidates to start. Fact is Shanny knows what he is doing and he does have this year to tinker with to find out what he has and what he still needs to build that foundation.

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Postby andre.carter29 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:30 pm

Easy said than done . :(

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Postby Red_One43 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:58 pm

This article is abbout the difference in the way the Colts were build vs. the Saints. With no disrespect to the Super Bowl winners for Super Bowl XLIV, I am focusing on the Colts because the have the second best regular season record of the decade. There is an interesting fact concerning the Patriots ( the number 1 team regular season record) in this article.

Colts, Saints took different routes to building Super Bowl rostersBy Steve Wyche NFL.com


The Colts are the standard bearers in drafting players and finding those who have been overlooked to fit their schemes. They develop players who aren't ready, and they don't use free agency or trades to significantly alter their roster. And even though there was a change at head coach from Tony Dungy to Jim Caldwell, just about everything has stayed the same for a franchise that has spoiled itself with success.


That path has led to this heading into Super Bowl XLIV: Of the Colts' 22 starting position players, all but nine were drafted by the team. Of those nine, seven were signed as undrafted rookies or picked up on waivers after other teams signed them as undrafted rookies and quickly released them. Only defensive tackles Antonio Johnson and Daniel Muir played for other teams, the Tennessee Titans and Green Bay Packers, respectively, before signing with the Colts as free agents.

The Colts' biggest free-agent signing the past few years? Kicker Adam Vinatieri, who, because of injuries this season, is backing up street free-agent signee Matt Stover.

Led by team president Bill Polian, Chris' father, the Colts' staff has a tried and true formula that has bred constant success.

"With our continuity, everybody understands what our philosophy is and how the roster is going to be built," Chris Polian said. "We know what the limitations are and what the strengths and weaknesses are in terms of building rosters. Everybody -- including the players -- is accepting of that and takes responsibility of getting guys going, getting guys indoctrinated in our ways and how we do things to be productive NFL players."

Although the Colts have been strong in finding undrafted talent and selection well in the later rounds -- safety Antoine Bethea (sixth) and wide receiver Pierre Garcon (sixth), for example -- their star players, the guys who hold others to a high standard, are the first-round draft picks who have delivered to expectations.

Everything starts with quarterback Peyton Manning, the first overall pick in 1998. The majority of the other top offensive skill-position players -- running back Joseph Addai, wide receiver Reggie Wayne and tight end Dallas Clark -- were first-rounders. Defensive end Dwight Freeney is the only first-round starter on defense, hence the tilted balance of the Colts' strength toward offense.

Saints RB Pierre Thomas is one of 36 undrafted players from the two Super Bowl teams.

Most undrafted players combined in Super Bowl (since 1980)

Game Team (No.) Team (No.) Total
SB XLIV Colts (19) Saints (17) 36
SB XXXIX Eagles (17) Patriots (14) 31
SB XXXVI Rams (15) Patriots (15) 30
SB XLIII Steelers (16) Cardinals (13) 29
SB XLII Patriots (15) Giants (14) 29

The Saints' recent first-round picks, Bush, wide receiver Robert Meachem, Ellis and cornerback Malcolm Jenkins, have shown flashes, but all are still evolving and none has consistently started, although all but Jenkins are huge parts of the rotation



http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/story/0900 ... wl-rosters

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Postby Red_One43 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:11 pm

CHART OF THE DAY: How The Draft Created The NFL's Final FourCork Gaines

In the NFL, there may be no more exciting day than the first day of the NFL Draft. That is the day that dreams are made and every team has hope. But how much does the draft influence the rosters of the best teams in the league?

If we look at the four teams that are still alive on the road to the Super Bowl Game-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named, we see that 49.5% of the 212 active players were acquired through the draft. Of the remaining players, 27.8% were never drafted, and 22.6% were drafted by other teams and acquired through trade or free agency.

And if we look at the rosters of the four remaining teams (below), we see some stark differences in how those teams were built.

The Steelers are the most home-grown team, with 57% of their players acquired through the draft. (Packers 53%, Bears 51%) The Jets have the fewest active players that came via the draft (36%).

If we look at the scrap-heap players, we see that the Jets have the most players that were never drafted (36%) and the Bears have the fewest number of players that never heard their name called on draft day (17%).
(Packers 34%, Steelers 24%)

(Drafted by other teams - Packers 13%, Steelers 19%, Jets 26%, Bears 32%)


Both the Packers and the Steelers have the least amount of players drafted by other teams and they both are in the top 5 teams with the best regular season records of the decade. The Bears and Jets are in the top 20 teams of the decade.


http://www.businessinsider.com/chart-of ... aft-2011-1
Last edited by Red_One43 on Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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