Atheism?

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Postby cvillehog » Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:14 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:You don't think a religious based military campaign to regain "holy land" isn't doing damage? How many people were killed, enslaved, raped and murdered? How many people were religiously motivated to go on the crusades and fight for a religion through means of fear and intimidation?


I guess I'm just not sure how this has anything to do with whether God exists or not. It seems like no one actually wants to discuss that though, they'd rather yell back and forth about who said exactly what or whether religiousness and theism are the same (or in this case, I guess whether it's religion as a whole or just religious people that are evil).

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Postby Deadskins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:15 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:I have some free time today so if anyone would like to defend religion, by all means I would love to hear what you have to say.


What are people supposed to be defending religion against? I haven't seen any criticisms of it . . . just a guy looking up at the clouds and saying he lives by reality. Not exactly heavy-hitting material there. ;)


I didn't make the thread, not sure why I should have to do the heavy hitting...

Well, I started it, but it was based on a comment you made in another thread. So, in a way, you did make the thread, or at least made it possible.

ATX_Skins wrote:It's funny to me that when an Atheist walks in the room nobody is religious anymore. I am not talking about God anymore. I am talking about religion.

Interesting that some people I have a feeling are hiding their faith behind the term "God".

I cannot argue there is no God, I can argue that anyone's religion is utter crap though.

The origins of this thread were in regards to one of the members becoming a born again Christian and having Jesus Christ in his life. Lets stick to religion then shall we.

I consider myself religious. I am a Christian, not born again, but a Christian no less. I believe that Jesus was the messiah, and he died so that I, and the rest of the world might be saved. I don't proselytize or try to impose my beliefs on anyone else, but I would never deny my beliefs out of embarrassment or concern for some sort of negative retribution, especially on a message board. I often pray that God will reveal Himself to those that don't know His love the way I do. So if you want to try and belittle me for my beliefs, go for it. It won't affect me, because, as I said before, I have personal proof there is a God, and I have a very good relationship with Him. Nothing you can say will change that.


Why do you feel as though the world needs to be saved. Don't you think Christianity has done enough damage already?

I don't think Christianity has done any damage at all. Are you one of those people who thinks guns kill people, not that the person who pulled the trigger actually did the killing?


You don't think a religious based military campaign to regain "holy land" isn't doing damage? How many people were killed, enslaved, raped and murdered? How many people were religiously motivated to go on the crusades and fight for a religion through means of fear and intimidation?

No, I don't think that is Christianity.
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Postby ATX_Skins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:06 pm

Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:I have some free time today so if anyone would like to defend religion, by all means I would love to hear what you have to say.


What are people supposed to be defending religion against? I haven't seen any criticisms of it . . . just a guy looking up at the clouds and saying he lives by reality. Not exactly heavy-hitting material there. ;)


I didn't make the thread, not sure why I should have to do the heavy hitting...

Well, I started it, but it was based on a comment you made in another thread. So, in a way, you did make the thread, or at least made it possible.

ATX_Skins wrote:It's funny to me that when an Atheist walks in the room nobody is religious anymore. I am not talking about God anymore. I am talking about religion.

Interesting that some people I have a feeling are hiding their faith behind the term "God".

I cannot argue there is no God, I can argue that anyone's religion is utter crap though.

The origins of this thread were in regards to one of the members becoming a born again Christian and having Jesus Christ in his life. Lets stick to religion then shall we.

I consider myself religious. I am a Christian, not born again, but a Christian no less. I believe that Jesus was the messiah, and he died so that I, and the rest of the world might be saved. I don't proselytize or try to impose my beliefs on anyone else, but I would never deny my beliefs out of embarrassment or concern for some sort of negative retribution, especially on a message board. I often pray that God will reveal Himself to those that don't know His love the way I do. So if you want to try and belittle me for my beliefs, go for it. It won't affect me, because, as I said before, I have personal proof there is a God, and I have a very good relationship with Him. Nothing you can say will change that.


Why do you feel as though the world needs to be saved. Don't you think Christianity has done enough damage already?

I don't think Christianity has done any damage at all. Are you one of those people who thinks guns kill people, not that the person who pulled the trigger actually did the killing?


You don't think a religious based military campaign to regain "holy land" isn't doing damage? How many people were killed, enslaved, raped and murdered? How many people were religiously motivated to go on the crusades and fight for a religion through means of fear and intimidation?

No, I don't think that is Christianity.


I think you should do some research. They were very involved.
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Postby ATX_Skins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:11 pm

Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:IMO opinion there are two ways of viewing "God"

God in religious terms is the creation of all that is in line with their beliefs.

God on a non personal level is the idea that however the Universe was created, science included, that THAT is God.

In your opinion opinion, why are those two mutually exclusive? Can God not have created everything, science included, and that be in line with all of my beliefs?


Well, that is my opinion. If you believe that god created all that is but only pray to Jesus, than I suppose yes, maybe you can.
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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:11 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:I think you should do some research. They were very involved.


You're not only confused between God and religion you're confused between God and believers. When I do wrong, that is against God's wishes, not on his behalf. Going back to my earlier question, why don't teachers give the students all the answers so they get 100% on every test? Could there be a lesson do you think in being allowed to do things wrong on your own rather then being told what the answer is and blindly writing it in?
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Postby Deadskins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:25 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:IMO opinion there are two ways of viewing "God"

God in religious terms is the creation of all that is in line with their beliefs.

God on a non personal level is the idea that however the Universe was created, science included, that THAT is God.

In your opinion opinion, why are those two mutually exclusive? Can God not have created everything, science included, and that be in line with all of my beliefs?


Well, that is my opinion. If you believe that god created all that is but only pray to Jesus, than I suppose yes, maybe you can.

:hmm:
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Postby Deadskins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:28 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:I think you should do some research. They were very involved.

Do you understand the concept that saying you are doing something in the name of Christianity does not necessarily make it a Christian thing to do?
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Postby ATX_Skins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:45 pm

Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:I think you should do some research. They were very involved.

Do you understand the concept that saying you are doing something in the name of Christianity does not necessarily make it a Christian thing to do?


Even if the leaders of the time in the region had brainwashed the masses into doing it? Religion was used as a very powerful tool to control the masses during that time.

I do understand the difference, however in those times I do not think the masses knew the difference no matter how immoral or wrong.

You are right though, just because it was in the name of Christianity does not make it a Christian thing to do. I agree.
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Postby ATX_Skins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:46 pm

Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:IMO opinion there are two ways of viewing "God"

God in religious terms is the creation of all that is in line with their beliefs.

God on a non personal level is the idea that however the Universe was created, science included, that THAT is God.

In your opinion opinion, why are those two mutually exclusive? Can God not have created everything, science included, and that be in line with all of my beliefs?


Well, that is my opinion. If you believe that god created all that is but only pray to Jesus, than I suppose yes, maybe you can.

:hmm:
Say what?


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Postby Irn-Bru » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:25 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:IMO opinion there are two ways of viewing "God"

God in religious terms is the creation of all that is in line with their beliefs.

God on a non personal level is the idea that however the Universe was created, science included, that THAT is God.


Can you give an argument as to why these are mutually exclusive views, or why they are the only two? As JSPB points out it's actually not difficult to reconcile the two concepts of God-the-universe-creator and God-of-religious-belief. So, what if they are the same thing? Can you give an argument to say why they are not?
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Postby ATX_Skins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:12 pm

They are not because IMO the universe was not created how any religion would say. So for me they are separate. For someone who is religious they would possibly view them as being the same.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:20 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:They are not because IMO the universe was not created how any religion would say.

Religions typically aren't in the business of giving the scientific description, no. But I still don't see how it follows that they must be concerned with some other concept. There's just no contradiction here.


So for me they are separate. For someone who is religious they would possibly view them as being the same.

This attempt to make it all subjective misses the point. Whether or not there's a God doesn't depend on what feels right to me or what works for you.

Of course, if you really mean this, then it turns out it wasn't "reality" on the side of the guy looking at the clouds — it was just a gut feeling all along. ;)
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Postby tribeofjudah » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:07 am

cvillehog wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:You don't think a religious based military campaign to regain "holy land" isn't doing damage? How many people were killed, enslaved, raped and murdered? How many people were religiously motivated to go on the crusades and fight for a religion through means of fear and intimidation?


I guess I'm just not sure how this has anything to do with whether God exists or not. It seems like no one actually wants to discuss that though, they'd rather yell back and forth about who said exactly what or whether religiousness and theism are the same (or in this case, I guess whether it's religion as a whole or just religious people that are evil).


Oh, what a Great Controversy this is between good/evil.

God is LOVE. On the flipside, satan wants to be worshipped as "God" is workshipped. He does so by attacking the character of God/Love and replaces it with: strife, warfare, murder, hate, greed, filthiness, and all kinds of evil.

Choose today whom you will serve, but as for me and MY HOUSEHOLD...we will serve the LORD....!!! JOSHUA 24:14-18

(sorry if you think The Good Book is fairy tale - I do not share your view)
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Postby 1niksder » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:25 am

Image

Good or Evil can be found in almost everything it depends on how things are looked at and who is doing the looking.

Some people only see good... some only see evil... then there are those that see both
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Postby ATX_Skins » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:31 am

tribeofjudah wrote:
cvillehog wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:You don't think a religious based military campaign to regain "holy land" isn't doing damage? How many people were killed, enslaved, raped and murdered? How many people were religiously motivated to go on the crusades and fight for a religion through means of fear and intimidation?


I guess I'm just not sure how this has anything to do with whether God exists or not. It seems like no one actually wants to discuss that though, they'd rather yell back and forth about who said exactly what or whether religiousness and theism are the same (or in this case, I guess whether it's religion as a whole or just religious people that are evil).


Oh, what a Great Controversy this is between good/evil.

God is LOVE. On the flipside, satan wants to be worshipped as "God" is workshipped. He does so by attacking the character of God/Love and replaces it with: strife, warfare, murder, hate, greed, filthiness, and all kinds of evil.

Choose today whom you will serve, but as for me and MY HOUSEHOLD...we will serve the LORD....!!! JOSHUA 24:14-18

(sorry if you think The Good Book is fairy tale - I do not share your view)


You can be a slave to religion. I will serve myself.
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