Where are all the Mike Williams guys now?

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Postby hkHog » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:01 am

Very true JP. Ramsey's bad habits are certainly quite engrained and they do show up week in and week out. Because he has never had a decent coach it is hard for him to change his game so much right now but nobody is perfect. However, he has made progress and he has shown that he can minimize these shortcomings. Last night he fell back onto some of his bad habits but I think it was mainly nerves and rustiness. If he can get into a rhythm and start trusting his coaching he can be a decent QB.

JPFair wrote:And because they were angry at not taking Williams with the 6th, they were even more angry with taking Campbell instead of the next best available WR.


Very true, I had forgotten that.

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Postby 1niksder » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:16 am

JPFair wrote:And because they were angry at not taking Williams with the 6th, they were even more angry with taking Campbell instead of the next best available WR.


I liked Williams and WIlliamson (went to Minn) over picking a CB in the draft. That was before Smoot left and priorities changed. I felt with the shortage of CB at the end of last year and the lost of Smoot, Rodgers would be a great addition. I wouldn't have been mad if we had selected Mike WIlliams, But what was going to happen with the 25th pick wasn't going to change (we moved up way too early to change the plan on draft day). Thats why some are saying the coupling of Williams and Campbell in the same argument is moot. The move for Campbell was a done deal well before the 4th pick in the draft was made (everyone thought MW would be gone by then).

Everyone bashed him for Brunell (some of the same that are all geedy about his performance last night).

The bottom line is... as fans our opinions will sometimes differ from the front office.

My Opinion is... Joe Gibbs is correct more often than not and I can live with those odds My 2 cents
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Postby JPFair » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:24 am

My Opinion is... Joe Gibbs is correct more often than not and I can live with those odds


=D>

Well said!
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Postby The Hogster » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:51 am

Of all three Quarterbacks I like Campbell. He looks like he could be a great Quarterback with a year or so of sitting and learning the Offense.

You can tell the difference in teams that have had continuity in their offenses in the pre-season game. Looking at St. Louis, Carolina, and a few other teams, the pre-season looks more like a tune-up, whereas Ramsey still looks like he is trying to figure this thing out.

Whatever the case, I want whoever starts for us to excel, if it is Ramsey I want him to become a star, if it is Brunell, I want him to just not lose the game for us like he did last year.

Either way, these guys right now are holding the team while the apprentice gets ready to take over. Campbell just looks like a winner on the field, he is poised, accurate, mobile in the pocket and by Gosh the Offense Moves vertically when he is in there, and we all love that.
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Postby sch1977 » Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:04 pm

JPFair wrote:
I agree with most of your points. However, I still dont think Brunell has what it takes to get us to the next level


Did I say that he does?

In any event, I'd like to see Brunell improve tremendously over last year, but I'd also like to see Ramsey improve as well. Having an improved Ramsey in there as a starter, and an improved Brunell in as backup is a good situation to be in. That's all I'm indicating.



Never said you did say that, I was just expressing my opinion so lighten up!
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Postby JPFair » Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:02 pm

Never said you did say that, I was just expressing my opinion so lighten up!


Yes, Ma'am!!!

:P
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Postby oafusp » Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:37 pm

It's just a pre-season game, the first one at that. A little less that 4 weeks to go, so save the drama for the regular season.

Why do you always try to cram your opinions down peoples throats? It is ok if someone disagrees with you.
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Re: Where are all the Mike Williams guys now?

Postby crazyhorse1 » Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:13 pm

JPFair wrote:Just a few points from my perspective:

1- If nothing else, Joe Gibbs will be vindicated for selecting Campbell in the 1st round. Everyone who questioned why he hasn't had the utmost of confidence in Ramsey should now be thanking Gibbs for seeing something that doesn't make him convinced yet. Ramsey will still get the upper hand at starting, but Ramsey should take nothing for granted.

2- It really does boil down to one thing with Ramsey: He is atrocious in the pocket. He looks uncomfortable, indecisive, tries to do too much, doesn't know what the right thing is, and refuses to change his bad habits. He has no choice but to change his bad habits, because he's not a mobile QB, yet he steadfastly refuses to heed the Coaches advice about how to be comfortable in the pocket. Put it this way, he's not a good student of the game. And, in this business and at his age, you'd damn well better be a good student of the game.

3- All those people that say "Brunell sucks" and he's "washed up" should not proclaim his career over. One bad year does not a career make. He has several good years under his belt, and one bad year does not automatically make him a washed up QB. Yes, he sucked last year, but so did a lot of Redskins players. Does he deserve to start after one good showing in the first pre-season game? Absolutely not, but just like Ramsey shouldn't take anything for granted, I would hope Brunell strives to be the best QB he can possibly be. Irregardless of his critics, and how many people think he "sucks", Brunell is a class act, he's a professional, and ultimately he will be vindicated, whether that be as a starter or a backup remains to be seen.

4- Where are all the "Joe Gibbs is washed up for not taking Mike Williams" guys now?

5- Ramsey will get better as the pre-season goes on, but he's never going to be comfortable in the pocket. NEVER!!! What he needs to do is watch Tom Brady for one game. Drop back, find the open receiver, and let it rip, all in one fluid motion. None of this patting the ball, taking a ton of time to find the open guy, panicking in the pocket, and being vulnerable to the blitz crap. Again, in one fluid quick motion, drop back, find the guy, let her rip!! He simply has to change his nasty habits if he has any hope of being a top QB in the league. Can he do it? It remains to be seen, but Joe Gibbs is giving him a chance and he needs to take that chance and show him that he's worthy of it. If he continually refuses to change his habits, then he'll end up as a perennial back up QB jumping from team to team throughout his career but never living up to his potential.

It's funny how the fans perspective on things always change. Just a few months ago people were gunning for Gibbs' head just because he didn't select Mike Williams. Now, the ones that like Ramsey are either saying "give him time" or "he needs better protection" or "he's got potential". To age myself, and to quote a famous commercial from the 80's, "Where's the beef"? Ramsey is our starter, and we're going to sink or swim with him this year. But, his leash is getting shorter and shorter, and Gibbs long term plans for this franchise should no longer be questioned. Gibbs knows what he's doing, and when he's not 100% convinced of a persons ability to lead the team back to winning ways, people should not ask why the hell not? They should merely accept it, and let him do his job. Even after one pre-season game, I'll bet all those "I want Mike Williams" guys are going to silently transition over to a "This guy Campbell has some potential" type of guy.

Just my .02


I don't agree JP. I'm a Mike Williams guy and I seem to remember Williams being passed up for a cornerback, not for Jason Campbell. The game last night did absolutely nothing to prove we're OK at WR. Patten and Moss failed to show up, Dmac dropped three. Old man Dyson and our kick returner were our best WR's. Sellers was the best receiver (Oh my God. Did I just say that.)
And please don't respond by claiming Rogers is the second coming. That has certainly not been proven yet, and it is also apparent, from the game last night, that Smoot and Pierce were worth their gold. If the FO hadn't had a brush with insanity, we would have Pierce, Smoot, Williams, and Campbell and be on our way to the big time.
I respect Gibbs, but he's human, also just re-learning the league. To give him such faith at this point smacks of needing a cult leader.
He blew the off-season badly, financially and otherwise. Face up to it and move on.

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Postby The Hogster » Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:47 pm

Patten and Moss showed up. Ramsey didn't throw the ball where they could catch it.
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Postby JPFair » Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:59 pm

Why do you always try to cram your opinions down peoples throats? It is ok if someone disagrees with you.


Cram my opinions down peoples throats? Uh, if that's how you wanna interpret it, then by all means go right ahead and do so. But, don't blame me for your interpretation of a simple discussion about a game as being crammed down your throat. No disrespect to you, or anyone else, but I would never waste my time by cramming my opinions down anyones throat. I do, however, agree with you that it's perfectly o.k., and in fact welcomed, if someone disagrees with me. Is that not what makes this site so brilliant? At least I thought it was anyway, I guess you don't.
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Postby JPFair » Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:02 pm

I don't agree JP. I'm a Mike Williams guy and I seem to remember Williams being passed up for a cornerback, not for Jason Campbell. The game last night did absolutely nothing to prove we're OK at WR. Patten and Moss failed to show up, Dmac dropped three. Old man Dyson and our kick returner were our best WR's. Sellers was the best receiver (Oh my God. Did I just say that.)
And please don't respond by claiming Rogers is the second coming. That has certainly not been proven yet, and it is also apparent, from the game last night, that Smoot and Pierce were worth their gold. If the FO hadn't had a brush with insanity, we would have Pierce, Smoot, Williams, and Campbell and be on our way to the big time.
I respect Gibbs, but he's human, also just re-learning the league. To give him such faith at this point smacks of needing a cult leader.
He blew the off-season badly, financially and otherwise. Face up to it and move on


To respond to this would merely justify it as a credible post, which I don't think it is. But, seeing as you're one of those "Mike Williams" guys and convinced that the problem lies with the Wide Receivers instead of the person throwing it to them, as well as taking into consideration your past posts, then I suggest you jump on the Detroit Lions bandwagon. I hear they have a couple of excellent young WR's.
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Postby Jake » Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:42 pm

I'm right here. By the way, you can classify me as a "Mike Williams or whoever is best for the team guy."

I wanted Williams but I didn't ever NOT want Rogers. I am happy with Rogers. I just hope he gets healthy.
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:06 am

CLL, I agree with you that Campbell has nothing to do with not getting Williams, but here's the link to an interesting thread to highlight my point. In the thread, you'll see your own remarks where you express anger over the selection of Rogers instead of Williams. In fact, to quote you, you said "We don't need Rogers, we need Williams". I respectfully disagree. What we "need" is an excellent CB and a "Joe Gibbs" type of QB. That's what we got!!!


To get that post back from the dead and to use it now out of context is not accurate. I was never pissed at Gibbs personally for not picking Williams. That was just pure emotion and hype from the draft talking. I charge you to find a post more than a week past the draft where I put down Gibbs, the Skins, or Rogers. I still want Williams, I even traded to get him in my Madden franchise. Thats my opinion.

How do we know Rogers is an excellent CB just yet? Rogers hasn't played a down as a Skin yet, he's been injured since he got here. I like the kid but you're seriously jumping the gun. I choose to believe in his huge potential and ability to come a shutdown corner but he hasnt proven he's not a bust either.


Those faggots better pick Mike1!!!!!


WE DONT NEEEDD RODGERS!!!!!!!!!! WE NEED WILLIAMS!!!!!!! WE HAVE CB'S!!!! ILL PLAY CB!!!


These two quotes of me that you posted as I stated above are taken out of context. You're thread is titled "Where are all the Mike Williams guys now?". You then proceed to say "4- Where are all the "Joe Gibbs is washed up for not taking Mike Williams" guys now?" Im taking this personally because you lump me into being a "Mike Williams guy", and then say that these "Mike William guys" said Gibbs is washed up.

JPFair wrote:It's funny how the fans perspective on things always change.

My view has not changed.

JPFair wrote:Just a few months ago people were gunning for Gibbs' head just because he didn't select Mike Williams.

I'd never utter anything remotely close to that.

Again you lump us "Mike William" guys into a huge group. I wanted Mike and still do, that was the end of the story.

Show me some solid proof of anything you've seen during this preseason that proves we dont need a tall WR with good hands? Show me where Rogers has played and has looked solid?

Jason Campbell can't be used to prove you're right because was picked way after Williams.
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Postby SkinsFanInHawai'i » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:27 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
CLL, I agree with you that Campbell has nothing to do with not getting Williams, but here's the link to an interesting thread to highlight my point. In the thread, you'll see your own remarks where you express anger over the selection of Rogers instead of Williams. In fact, to quote you, you said "We don't need Rogers, we need Williams". I respectfully disagree. What we "need" is an excellent CB and a "Joe Gibbs" type of QB. That's what we got!!!


To get that post back from the dead and to use it now out of context is not accurate. I was never pissed at Gibbs personally for not picking Williams. That was just pure emotion and hype from the draft talking. I charge you to find a post more than a week past the draft where I put down Gibbs, the Skins, or Rogers. I still want Williams, I even traded to get him in my Madden franchise. Thats my opinion.

How do we know Rogers is an excellent CB just yet? Rogers hasn't played a down as a Skin yet, he's been injured since he got here. I like the kid but you're seriously jumping the gun. I choose to believe in his huge potential and ability to come a shutdown corner but he hasnt proven he's not a bust either.


Those faggots better pick Mike1!!!!!


WE DONT NEEEDD RODGERS!!!!!!!!!! WE NEED WILLIAMS!!!!!!! WE HAVE CB'S!!!! ILL PLAY CB!!!


These two quotes of me that you posted as I stated above are taken out of context. You're thread is titled "Where are all the Mike Williams guys now?". You then proceed to say "4- Where are all the "Joe Gibbs is washed up for not taking Mike Williams" guys now?" Im taking this personally because you lump me into being a "Mike Williams guy", and then say that these "Mike William guys" said Gibbs is washed up.

JPFair wrote:It's funny how the fans perspective on things always change.

My view has not changed.

JPFair wrote:Just a few months ago people were gunning for Gibbs' head just because he didn't select Mike Williams.

I'd never utter anything remotely close to that.

Again you lump us "Mike William" guys into a huge group. I wanted Mike and still do, that was the end of the story.

Show me some solid proof of anything you've seen during this preseason that proves we dont need a tall WR with good hands? Show me where Rogers has played and has looked solid?

Jason Campbell can't be used to prove you're right because was picked way after Williams.


Do you think we do not need Rogers because he got injured? I don't won't Harris as are perminent 2nd CB. I am not saying Rogers will immediatley step up and replace Smoot. But I do hope he can become better, especially with the coaching staff we have in place.

Not trying to take sides on the arguement going on. Just my My 2 cents

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Postby JPFair » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:38 am

How do we know Rogers is an excellent CB just yet?


I think he'll be a good CB, just like you think Mike Williams will be a good WR. How do we know HE'll be an outstanding WR just yet?

I charge you to find a post more than a week past the draft where I put down Gibbs, the Skins, or Rogers.


What difference does it make when someone expressed their anger over the decision? As I said in my second post, to highlight my point, one should go back and compare the pre-draft posts and the post-draft posts, and you'll see a total different attitude about Gibbs decision to selct Rogers now, than people had back then. Clearly, on the day, you were quite outraged that we got Rogers instead of Williams. Campbell, as I said in my earlier post, has nothing to do with it other than to anger those people that thought we should get the next available WR at that slot instead of Campbell.

I like the kid but you're seriously jumping the gun. I choose to believe in his huge potential and ability to come a shutdown corner but he hasnt proven he's not a bust either


Neither has Mike Williams. In fact, Williams hasn't even played a down in almost two years. At least Rogers showcased his stuff as recently as this past season.

Im taking this personally because you lump me into being a "Mike Williams guy", and then say that these "Mike William guys" said Gibbs is washed up.


Well, that's your choice, but it's certainly not meant to be personal. Although, when you say that I've got it mixed up, when I know I don't, I could have taken that personal too, but I didn't. If my post itself didn't make sense, see what hkhog said. THAT'S what my point was!! It never had anything to do with Jason Campbell, other than the fact that those people who wanted Mike Williams were so angry over not getting Mike Williams, that come #25, they were even angrier that we didn't get the 'next' best WR. Again, go back and look at the pre-draft posts and the post-draft posts. You'll see a completely different tone than the one you'e saying now.

JPFair wrote:
Just a few months ago people were gunning for Gibbs' head just because he didn't select Mike Williams.

I'd never utter anything remotely close to that.


Who said you did?

Show me some solid proof of anything you've seen during this preseason that proves we dont need a tall WR with good hands?


First of all, it's only one game into the pre-season. Second of all, you're missing the entire point. Look at it this way, show me some solid proof that we didn't need a good, young, "Joe Gibbs" type of QB to select at #25 instead of the "next best WR" since we didn't get Williams at #6? All I've said in this whole thread, is that the selection of Campbell doesn't look so bad now, does it? Who would you rather have: "The Next best WR at #25" or "Jason Campbell"?

Although the title of the post was referring directly to Mike Williams, Mike Williams was only a small portion of the content.

Jason Campbell can't be used to prove you're right because was picked way after Williams.


Dude, this is not a game of who wins and who loses with the posts. It's not a question of this being a personal attack on you. It' simply me throwing out some talking points. Nothing more, and nothing less. It should be taken no other way. So, I can't argue Jason Campbell to "prove I'm right". Although, the Campbell pick looks a lot better now than it did back in April doesn't it?
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