Where are all the Mike Williams guys now?

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Postby JPFair » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:44 am

So you understood redskin1's entire reply but failed to understand this when peice...
redskin1 wrote:
Chris doesn't feels he should not be grouped in with the William's people that bashed Gibbs because he wasn't with them and didn't do that.


I completely agree with this, as I never grouped you in with anyone. I added your quote because I thought YOU had gotten things "mixed up" as opposed to me. And, when I say mixed up, it appeard that you got my point mixed up. Contrary to what you said, my point was not mixed up. Then again, you've got it mixed up as well when you say I grouped you in with Gibbs bashers.

I wanted Mike, I was dissapointed we didn't get him. Im happy with Rogers, Im elated with Jason. My wants or opinions have not changed, I accepted what the Skins did and feel that they did whats best for the team.


In spite of the fact that you said "WE DON'T NEED ROGERS, WE NEED WILLIAMS, I'LL PLAY CB". O.K. Then, like I said, in future, I'll just take everything you say and wait four months do determing if that's what you meant or not. The above quote was not grouping you in with anyone. If anything, the "gibbs bashers" being referred to were the likes of Manfreda, Crazyhorse, Domin_8, etc... You were nowhere in that "grouping" at all. YOu simply chose to be because one of your quotes was in there and I asked you if YOU were the one that got things mixed up. No need to get yoru panties in a bunch just cuz you said something that you didn't really mean. It wasn't taken out of context, there's no way to take THAT thing out of context. You either think we needed Rogers or you don't!! But, to put your mind at ease, you're never going to get me to say that I was grouping you in with "gibbs bashers" cuz I don't think you were. But, if you like, I'll go back to the draft day threads and bring up more rants about our draft choices if you like. Whether there's any of your quotes in there or not is of little significanace. As 1niksider pointed out, the point is that there's a HUGE change in the fans opinion then and now. Then, people were angry. Now, like you say above, you like Rogers. Hell, you'll even have him as your avatar yet four months ago you were saying we should have goten Williams instead of him. It's the same thing last year with K2. People said we should take him, then when we get Taylor people love him. Half way through the season they're glad we took Taylor and they're thanking their stars that we didn't take K2.

However DO NOT group me in with Gibbs bashers, this is the reoccuring theme that you keep failing to miss


Actually, I think you're wrong on this. The recurring theme that I'm not missing is that you seem to think I AM groupting you with Gibbs bashers. To quote your own line, "I charge you then, and I charge you now" to show me where I mentioned that you bashed Gibbs in any way?
Last edited by JPFair on Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby BossHog » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:06 am

Play nice kids... besides... you're confusing the heck out of me with all of this, 'You were mixed up about my being mixed up about you mixing up the mix ups.' :hmm:
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Postby John Manfreda » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:47 am

Rodgers went thru full workouts today with the first team.
most were confused and disappointed.

He hadn't practiced a game yet, when I posted it. Today was his first practice.

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Postby dnpmakkah » Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:12 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Let me clarify my point for you.
What irritated me was that you lumped people who liked Mike Williams and people who bashed the Skins together.


JP Fair lumping "Mike Williams Guys" with "Gibbs Haters" is sort of what people said about me last year. I was harsh on Ramsey and people said I wasn't a true Skins fan and that I was a badwagoneer. So just because I don't think Ramsey is good yet makes me a Skins hater?

Anyways my point is that even though he lumped them together I don't think thats what he meant.

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Postby sch1977 » Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:57 pm

John Manfreda wrote:Rodgers went thru full workouts today with the first team.
most were confused and disappointed.

He hadn't practiced a game yet, when I posted it. Today was his first practice.


Confused? :?
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Postby 1niksder » Tue Aug 16, 2005 6:24 pm

John Manfreda wrote:Rodgers went thru full workouts today with the first team.
most were confused and disappointed.

He hadn't practiced a game yet, when I posted it. Today was his first practice.


I'm thinking this has something to do with your earlier post and my reply.

Actually he was in the 11 on 11 drills yesterday as well as all other drills(LA and Noble were limited) if that's what you mean, if what you ment was he hasn't played in a pre-season game yet then you are correct.
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Postby King Cali Skin 2 » Tue Aug 16, 2005 7:30 pm

SkinsLaVar wrote:We needed Mike Williams, but we needed a corner even more.

If we had picked up Williams, our offense would improve a lot in the redzone situations. Afterall, Williams is a 6'5 target, not very hard to miss.

But then again, on defense, we were a car missing a wheel. Offenses would pick us apart and we would give up way too many points, like you have seen in the preseason game with Ade Jimoh shmo playing corner.

Carlos Rogers is a top CB, he is the new wheel. Now we have a car with all 4 of it's wheels. Some shiny rims would be nice, but you have to have all 4 wheels first...in order to go forward.


Yes, during draft-day I was mightly disappointed we didn't take Williams, we were all suprised he slid so far, but many teams needed corners and remember he sat out a year. In Hindsight we did the right thing, locked down our defense. Seems we don't need great WR's as much as we need better QB play, get Moss, Pattten and guys the ball and they will make plays.

Now Concerning MR. Campbell, yes we did give up a lot to bring him in and QB was not our most pressing need in terms of the 05-06 season. I was pissed at first too, but now J.Cam is lookin' like a half decent deal. There is a concept in Finance called, TVM (Time Value of Money) Meaning money/Campbell now is better then money/Campbell next year, the year allows us to develop the QB oppose to having a J. CAM type player next year a Rookie. Hopefully J. Cam's value appreciates quicker than the arm and leg we paid. So far so good, Ramsey' you are a 4th yr Vet, shape up or ship out. :lol:
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Postby SkinsJock » Tue Aug 16, 2005 8:55 pm

While Gibbs does not place as much importance on the younger players as some he will only select those that he thinks will fit his scheme, his team and the other players here. He does not select players or "sign" players that do not fit in with what he perceives to be a football player and a team oriented player at that.

That is why Gibbs does not get TO type players or Randy Moss - they are not worth it! Maybe Mike Williams will prove to be a great WR but he will not get that opportunity with Joe. Must not have looked good to him or he would have drafted him,

I think from what little we have seen that both these guys are the "type" of players that Joe likes. I think they will both be very good NFL players.



Now, we need Mark to show why Gibbs wanted him here because last year was not the sort of year anybody expected.
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Postby John Manfreda » Tue Aug 16, 2005 9:38 pm

SkinsJock wrote:While Gibbs does not place as much importance on the younger players as some he will only select those that he thinks will fit his scheme, his team and the other players here. He does not select players or "sign" players that do not fit in with what he perceives to be a football player and a team oriented player at that.

That is why Gibbs does not get TO type players or Randy Moss - they are not worth it! Maybe Mike Williams will prove to be a great WR but he will not get that opportunity with Joe. Must not have looked good to him or he would have drafted him,

I think from what little we have seen that both these guys are the "type" of players that Joe likes. I think they will both be very good NFL players.



Now, we need Mark to show why Gibbs wanted him here because last year was not the sort of year anybody expected.
\
Mike Williams is not a thug. He has never got in any trouble and has never showed an attitude. Do not compare him to TO or Randy Moss. That is ridiculous.

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Postby Coachkyle » Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:07 pm

Mike Williams might not be a thug, but it is he a team-player? Leaving USC that early to seek individual gain could cast some doubt in coaches' minds. I think that is the issue here. Only time will tell...

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:16 pm

Coachkyle wrote:Mike Williams might not be a thug, but it is he a team-player? Leaving USC that early to seek individual gain could cast some doubt in coaches' minds. I think that is the issue here. Only time will tell...


:roll: X1000

C'mon now, thats the weakest argument ever. There are too many guys to count that leave college early to go into the pros. How many guys actually wait to their senior year to go into the NFL? According to you anyone who doesn't stay their full 4 years aren't team players?
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Postby Coachkyle » Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:29 pm

Nope, I only single out guys that have the audacity to fight the NFL rule and come out as sophmores. The vast majority of these guys are immature either in their personal lives or in their gameplay. Obviously that varies by individual. Very few NBA players make it straight out of high school. MLB players at least have the minors to grow up in. I don't drool over talent to the point where I totally disregard character (like many on this board do); neither does Joe Gibbs.

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:53 pm

Coachkyle wrote:Nope, I only single out guys that have the audacity to fight the NFL rule and come out as sophmores. The vast majority of these guys are immature either in their personal lives or in their gameplay. Obviously that varies by individual. Very few NBA players make it straight out of high school. MLB players at least have the minors to grow up in. I don't drool over talent to the point where I totally disregard character (like many on this board do); neither does Joe Gibbs.


So what negative thing have you heard about Mike? I haven't heard anything? I never saw him suing the NFL or speaking badly of the league? He tried to get back into college but he wasnt allowed to. He was simply applying for a job in the NFL which at the time was accessible to him.
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Postby Coachkyle » Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:26 am

So what negative thing have you heard about Mike?[quote]

Not a lot of negatives...very talented player, only part that concerned me was the highlighted part---

"Negatives � Despite his size and strength, he does not show aggression when asked to block (will position and get in the way, but will not stalk) � Strong runner, but sometimes takes time to get back to speed after the catch � More of a soft angle cutter in the short area � Could snap off and accelerate out of his breaks a little better at times but looks pretty polished in his pattern running � Not a burner and doesn't show a great gear of acceleration, but he gets behind defenses with a strong vertical push and positions himself well on the deep ball � In the short area, he is more of soft angle cutter � Has had weight issues in the past and could eventually grow into a tight end � Did not have any issues with teammates, but did not exactly have a team-first work ethic � Does not always utilize double moves in the zone and needs to be more alert of coverage assignments in this area."
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/486306

I'd be somewhat concerned with him being away from the game a year. This seems like a lot of negative but it isn't, other 1st rounders had similar analysis...

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Postby JPFair » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:09 am

Mike Williams will be a fantastic reciever, I have no doubt. But, it just so happens that Gibbs doesn't beleive that getting him is what the team needed right now. As SkinsJock said, Joe must have seen something in him that he didn't think was right for this team. That's not a knock against Mike Williams, it's just a testament to the fact that the Redskins plan on using an offense that's not going to require the Tall, big, WR that Williams is. Instead, he opted to go for speed in Moss and Patten. In any event, I don't beleive you can take anything away from Mike Williams. Very few people, if any, doubt his talent. Maybe some people had issue with him being out of team play for a year, but he obviously kept in shape and stayed focused.
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