Post game discussion here please - PG

Washington Redskins' Game Day discussions for 2003, 2004, and 2005
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Postby RayNAustin » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:02 am

Interesting article in the post today that I also agree with regarding our lack of running.

We open the game with a botched end around for a loss of 2 yards, and Portis had a total of only 14 carries fro 58 yards.

We did the same thing last year when we started 3-0 and then went on that 2-6 slide. We rededicated to the run, and went 5-0 to make it into the playoffs.

Here we have Portis, Betts, Sellers, Duckett, and Cartwright a combination of hard running talent to pound the ball, and we give it to Portis only 14 times? We had a lead of 14 - 3, and should have been pounding it.

I still contend that we have a major coaching issue happening here. The defense is pathetic (because of poor personnel decisions IMO), and we simply aren't establishing that power run game that is Redskin football, which controls the ball, keeping that vulnerabe defense off the field.

There are too many issues to expect a QB change to solve......unless you believe the 1969 Redskins philosophy is what you want. Back then, Sonny lit em up in the passing game, but we had no defense, and usually went 3-9 or thereabouts for the season.

Right now, the players are starting to question play calling. The defense is getting toasted, and we are looking straight into the mouth of the beast, and one blow out away from a team rebuilding phase.

The Giants game was a big wake up call.......no body heard it.

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Postby JPFair » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:10 am

Right now, the players are starting to question play calling.


Do you have a link?
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Postby SkinsJock » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:31 am

RayNAustin wrote:..We open the game with a botched end around for a loss of 2 yards...


I think that your post was too the point but I did want to add to this item. I was listening to Sonny and Sam at the begining of the game and Sam really questioned this call and said this was a terrible way to open the game. Sonny said he should contact Saunders. Shortly after, on the same drive, they did it again and it worked :shock: Sonny then asked Sam if he liked the call? Sam replied that he did because it worked :shock:

Basically I agree with your point about the run game and think that offensively a lot of our perceived problems will go away if we make a much bigger commitment to the run game than giving Portis 14 carries per game. :roll:

Now if we can just get the defense to tackle and create some turnovers we will be back in the hunt.
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

HAIL


Currently 50-41

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Postby RayNAustin » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:32 am

It's scattered over different player interviews.....they aren't pulling a T. O. outwardly.....just comments like "we need to get back to Redskin football" i.e. meaning running the ball. Portis has been very diplomatic saying they need to execute regardless of the play called. But it's easy to read between the lines. When asked about certain plays called...the "I don't know" comments are certainly telling.

If you recall, the offense lobied for a return to running the ball last year when we went on the 5-0 stretch.

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Postby ClintonHill » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:43 am

Interesting comments by everyone on yesterday's game. This is good group therapy.

Up until recently I was willing to trust Gregg Williams and his personnel decisions on the defense. But after yesterday's embarassment, it's time to reevaluate the man I had considered a 'genius'.

Losing players like Matt Bown, Walt Harris and even Lavar Arrington are understandable. None of those players ever did anything special on a regular basis.

Antonio Pierce, on the other hand, was absolutely crucial to our amazing defense of 2004. After that season, he wanted slightly more than we wanted to pay him, so we let him walk. Gregg basically assured Redskin Nation that Lemar Marshall could replace Pierce.

Fastforward two seasons and its obvious that Marshall can't hold Pierce's jockstrap. On top of that. we've thrown millions of dollars at unproven free agents like Adam Archuletta and Andre Carter. This is a signature move of the Danny era. Pierce busts his butt and shows how valuable he is, and we let him walk over peanuts. Archuletta and Carter are big flashy free agents (who haven't actually proven anything) and we throw millions at them. The Redskins need to get their priorities straight. They need a long term vision, because the Danny doesn't have one.

I hold Joe, the Danny, and Gregg responsible for thinking that Pierce wasn't worth the money. I hold them responsible for our total lack of depth in the secondary. I hold them responsible for thinking Holdman could be solid at WLB. I hold them responsible for replacing Fred Smoot with Carlos "where's the ball?" Rogers. I hold them responsible for Carter & Archuletta.

This isn't the worst team in the league. And it's not the worst franchise. We have a lot of talent, and we have coaches capable of being great. But some things need to change - beginning with our financial priorities when it comes to building from within or paying out the butt for free agents.

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Postby JPFair » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:57 am

RayNAustin wrote:It's scattered over different player interviews.....they aren't pulling a T. O. outwardly.....just comments like "we need to get back to Redskin football" i.e. meaning running the ball. Portis has been very diplomatic saying they need to execute regardless of the play called. But it's easy to read between the lines. When asked about certain plays called...the "I don't know" comments are certainly telling.

If you recall, the offense lobied for a return to running the ball last year when we went on the 5-0 stretch.



Having players "question the play calling" and having them say "We need to get back to Redskins football" are two entirely seperate things!! Even the coaching staff will tell you that the team needs to get back to playing "Redskins football", but that's not questioning the play calling. Everyone on the team and on the Coaching staff want to run the ball, but to say that players are questioning the play calling is saying something that is simply not true.

Your post says that "Now, players are questioning the play calling", which is extremely misleading. T.O. questions play calling!! Randy Moss questions play calling!! Teams that aren't United as a team question play calling. To the best of my knowledge, NO player on the Redskins has questioned the play calling. You're putting words in the players mouthes!! Perhaps you should have said "The players want to get back to Redskins football" instead of insinuating that the teams morale is starting to crack and fingers are being pointed. If you listen to those interviews, the players themselves say that there's NO FINGERPOINTING going on!
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Postby wbbradb » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:03 am

Whoever was asking about the play where Carlos Rogers didn't look back for the ball has to be more specific. Carlos NEVER looks back for the ball. I honestly don't know how you can ever expect to intercept a pass if you don't ever look for the ball. Kenny Wright looks much better than Carlos right now, and that's not a good thing.

Does anyone know how long that field goal would have been when we were around their 35 yard line with about 4 minutes to go and decided to punt? I don't know exactly what yard line it was, but I thought, you've got to try to get the points and at least tie it up...

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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:44 am

JPFair wrote:Having players "question the play calling" and having them say "We need to get back to Redskins football" are two entirely seperate things!! Even the coaching staff will tell you that the team needs to get back to playing "Redskins football", but that's not questioning the play calling. Everyone on the team and on the Coaching staff want to run the ball, but to say that players are questioning the play calling is saying something that is simply not true.

Your post says that "Now, players are questioning the play calling", which is extremely misleading. T.O. questions play calling!! Randy Moss questions play calling!! Teams that aren't United as a team question play calling. To the best of my knowledge, NO player on the Redskins has questioned the play calling. You're putting words in the players mouthes!! Perhaps you should have said "The players want to get back to Redskins football" instead of insinuating that the teams morale is starting to crack and fingers are being pointed. If you listen to those interviews, the players themselves say that there's NO FINGERPOINTING going on!



Good post, JP. I think that the WP and other sources will do everything they can to make it look like our internal locker room is chaos. I think that the problem is larger than an individual player or one facet of our team. I've only been a fan for a short while compared to others on this board, but I have never witnessed a team this stacked with talent put on such frustrating performances. There is a distinct lack of drive and pride to their play. I'm sure they are more frustrated than the fans, and I don't question that they want to win, but things simply aren't clicking.


I can agree with most of the venting that I see in this thread. What a terrible day to be a Redskins fan. The laments of BossHog, RiC, JPFair, and Steve Spurrier III were (I thought) particularly well-stated and said everything that I would want to, except better.


To die cowboys die in particular, a few things:

* Fire Gibbs. . .again? The last thing this team needs is for Snyder to clean house. Consistency in a coaching staff means riding ups and downs and giving a coach time to have a legitimate chance at turning a franchise around. If we fire Gibbs it'd be back to square one. . .and that reminds me of the late 90's - early 00's when all we did was switch schemes and coaches looking for the magic combination.

* 'But wait, there's more' . . . not only should Gibbs be fired . . . but then you suggest that he ought to get his mental health checked. And you're serious in saying that! I've noticed that you tend to speak in stark and absolute terms, but this has to be the most ridiculous thing I've seen you write. (And I've read just about everything that you've written on the board in the past 2 years). Plus, to make matters worse, you're extending your mental health warning to any message board members who don't see it the way you do! ("Gibbs is crazy--mentally unstable, not 'fun for parties'--oh, and so is everyone that disagrees with me on this topic.")

* Finally, Brunell has been bad. Terrible. He hasn't contributed toward winning games recently. But he is not the main reason why we have lost the past two weeks--that is, he doesn't stand out any more than any other player or unit in that category. (Also, he's 12th in the league among quarterbacks, statistically speaking. That should be updated tomorrow, but I don't think he'll get much worse/better based on this week's performance). So please stop acting as if anyone that doesn't think he's the worst in the league deserves a mental health check. That kind of talk seethes with arrogance, and that gets old.
"Last year I thought we'd win it all. This year I know we will." - Rex Ryan, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Jets

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Postby die cowboys die » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:41 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:To die cowboys die in particular, a few things:

* Fire Gibbs. . .again? The last thing this team needs is for Snyder to clean house. Consistency in a coaching staff means riding ups and downs and giving a coach time to have a legitimate chance at turning a franchise around. If we fire Gibbs it'd be back to square one. . .and that reminds me of the late 90's - early 00's when all we did was switch schemes and coaches looking for the magic combination.

* 'But wait, there's more' . . . not only should Gibbs be fired . . . but then you suggest that he ought to get his mental health checked. And you're serious in saying that! I've noticed that you tend to speak in stark and absolute terms, but this has to be the most ridiculous thing I've seen you write. (And I've read just about everything that you've written on the board in the past 2 years). Plus, to make matters worse, you're extending your mental health warning to any message board members who don't see it the way you do! ("Gibbs is crazy--mentally unstable, not 'fun for parties'--oh, and so is everyone that disagrees with me on this topic.")

* Finally, Brunell has been bad. Terrible. He hasn't contributed toward winning games recently. But he is not the main reason why we have lost the past two weeks--that is, he doesn't stand out any more than any other player or unit in that category. (Also, he's 12th in the league among quarterbacks, statistically speaking. That should be updated tomorrow, but I don't think he'll get much worse/better based on this week's performance). So please stop acting as if anyone that doesn't think he's the worst in the league deserves a mental health check. That kind of talk seethes with arrogance, and that gets old.


all hail The Untouchables!

the only reason gibbs' blind devotion to MB04 isn't considered insanity is because we live in a country where dogmatic faith that disregards all rational evidence is inexplicably still considered to be within the standards of rational thought.

QB ratings and the stat sheet don't reflect "errors" like they do in the baseball. a QB can commit many other errors than simply throwing an interception. yes, he is the worst QB in the league, or at least one of the worst 3 or 4.
Last edited by die cowboys die on Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby wbbradb » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:42 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:I've only been a fan for a short while compared to others on this board, but I have never witnessed a team this stacked with talent put on such frustrating performances.

I think this is where a lot of us have been mistaken. Where is the talent?

Talented players:
Portis
Moss
Lloyd
Randel-El
Thomas
Jansen
Taylor

I just wouldn't call anyone else on this team "talent." Is this more or less talent than most NFL teams have? Is this "stacked"? And by talent, I mean someone with the ability to make game-changing plays on his own or someone capable of dominating his position. Outside of these guys, team play, team effort, and the systems are what the Redskins have to rely on. (This is essentially ALL the defense has to rely on.) I think some players on the team may have looked at the game-changing plays these talented guys have made and then thought, oh good, we have so-and-so to bail us out. Then they give less than 100% effort.

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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:46 pm

wbbradb, I would say that you are missing:

Griffin
Daniels
Springs
Washington
Marshall
Sellers
Rock
Cooley

All talented by your definition, as I see it.
"Last year I thought we'd win it all. This year I know we will." - Rex Ryan, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Jets

"Dream team." - Vince Young, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Eagles

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Postby wbbradb » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:55 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:wbbradb, I would say that you are missing:

Griffin
Daniels
Springs
Washington
Marshall
Sellers
Rock
Cooley

All talented by your definition, as I see it.


I will give you Washington. The others are all GOOD players, don't get me wrong, but I don't think they are game changers. Springs is very good, and of course he's extremely important to the team--but I just don't think he's that much better than number 1 corners on other teams. Guys like Sellers and Rock are solid players with real heart and 100% effort every down, but I would not consider them extraordinarily talented (compared with other NFL players).

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Postby SkinzCanes » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:09 pm

the only reason gibbs' blind devotion to MB04 isn't considered insanity is because we live in a country where dogmatic faith that disregards all rational evidence is inexlicably still considered to be within the standards of rational thought.

QB ratings and the stat sheet don't reflect "errors" like they do in the baseball. a QB can commit many other errors than simply throwing an interception. yes, he is the worst QB in the league, or at least one of the worst 3 or 4.


Like Brian Mitchell said on postgame, there is no other team in the NFL that would let Boonell start for them. I thought about what he said and I think he's right. While some qb's are struggling more, like Walters, atleast they are young and their teams are building for the future. Boonell has to go now. Playoffs are out of the question for this team and its time to start building for the future with Campbell.

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Postby die cowboys die » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:33 pm

SkinzCanes wrote:
the only reason gibbs' blind devotion to MB04 isn't considered insanity is because we live in a country where dogmatic faith that disregards all rational evidence is inexplicably still considered to be within the standards of rational thought.

QB ratings and the stat sheet don't reflect "errors" like they do in the baseball. a QB can commit many other errors than simply throwing an interception. yes, he is the worst QB in the league, or at least one of the worst 3 or 4.


Like Brian Mitchell said on postgame, there is no other team in the NFL that would let Boonell start for them. I thought about what he said and I think he's right. While some qb's are struggling more, like Walters, atleast they are young and their teams are building for the future. Boonell has to go now. Playoffs are out of the question for this team and its time to start building for the future with Campbell.


yes, absolutely. and i would add, any other coach who insisted on sticking with brunell would almost certainly be in serious jeopardy of losing his job. take that for whatever it's worth, but i am sure it is true.

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Postby El Mexican » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:31 pm

The key word is "consistency".

Our defensive and offensive lack of consistency are reflective of what happens year in and year out personel-wise.

Right now we are looking a lot like those middle and late 90's Skins teams that every week invented news ways to loose. Absolutely exasperating games. Yet, when really wanted to win they comitted to the run.

The only two times I have seen these Danny-era Skins play with consistency was last year's five game winning strech and the last five games of the Marty era, when we finished 8-8 and looked inspired.

So, yes, we suck.

Oh, and one other thing: for all you fans who think we should fire Gibbs--try to make a bit more sense. Gibbs will NEVER be fired from Washington. Can you honestly fantom the animosity towards The Danny if he does that? The only way we see Gibbs go is if he walks out by himself.

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