The 46 base defense does it have a secondary long pass flaw?

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Postby The Hogster » Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:23 am

In my opinion Smoot is not 20 million dollars' better than Harris and Wilds. The two of them combined will play for less than half of what Smoot wants, is he really worth it?
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Postby Texas Hog » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:15 am

welch wrote:
Only one question, welch. I can't remember ever seeing Jay Shroeder "lobbing" the ball. His "lobs" were 60 mph instead of 70mph.


Truly said, JF...but just for that game, Schroeder threw some soft ones.

He just sort of looped the passes as he was being over-run by Dent and Singletary and the others...

And the the key, which I'll repeat, is that Schroeder knew that Monk was going to take the take the ball away from anybody else. No question, no doubt...a high floater over the middle, and that ball was going to belong to Art Monk, and he was going to run over or around any Bears defenders.

Maybe it's true that the Giants that year feared Gary Clark more than they feared Art Monk, as King wrote. Maybe. But they were a different team playing a different defense, and the Bears feared Art Monk.


I'm hoping someone can teach Ramsey the art of lofting the long ball...putting some air under the ball and allowing your speed receivers to make adjustments and run under the throw. I have yet to see this from him. Being a javelan thrower, you'd think it'd be natural. This is something I think Leinart does so well....throws a ball that's very easy to catch.

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Postby tcwest10 » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:24 am

welch wrote:
the point of it is to force a pass in so little time, that a deep threat isn't exactly possible, except yac.


That's exactly how Gibbs and the Redskins beat the Bears in a conference semifinal during the SB 21 season. The week before "the wind bowl", the Hogs-plus picked up the Bears blitz, and Jay Schroeder kept lobbing the ball to Art Monk, who ran a long, long way.


Wow, man. I was gonna throw out some generic "yeah, three, four and five yard slants" crap, and then I read Welch.
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Postby welch » Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:26 pm

I was just remembering a couple of great, great Redskins upsets in the playoffs. And smiling at the memory.

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Postby tcwest10 » Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:38 pm

The smiling part ? It's spreading like a contagion.
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4 months

Postby BATMAN » Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:26 am

Almost FOUR months between the last post and this one. I guess most people are not interested in discussing defense or either this board is a failing relic.

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Postby welch » Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:24 pm

Interesting point.

A lot of us, like me, just know the game as fans. I noticed the Art Monk runs from watching that game on TV, and, of course, enjoying the sound of the all-knowing announcers as they swallowed their tongues.

"This can't be...can't believe it...the Buddy Ryan defense scares opponents off the field...the Gibbs offense is obsolete...everyone knows that Gibbs can't cope with the modern all-out attacking defense...why are the hopeless Redskins beating the snot out of the all-mighty Bears?"

[Happened two years in a row. In year two, the game when Darrell Green leaped over a tackler going for his waist, the Bears thought they were prepared, but the Redskins, meaning especially the Hogs, smashed the Bears into a TKO]

I just watched what the Skins were doing, and read the Post afterward.

However, we have on this list some people, like JansenFan, who really know what they are talking about. See his post explaining the Gibbs offense, from a coach who runs one.

Maybe too many of our members are afraid to admit they don't know something? That's a normal human thing. We're often taught -- in school, among friends, in our families -- not to ask questions for fear that something will think we're dumb.

I say, of course, that we only learn when we ask.

This is a good bunch of people. Ask away.

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Postby skinpride1 » Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:33 pm

What do you think about the "secondary long pass flaw" after 36 points giving up bye our defense in two out of the last three games played?Maybe there is something to this when teams figure out your blitz schemes.
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Postby vicsportsaddict » Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:33 am

Come to think of it, that's one more argument against Peter King and for Art Monk being in the HOF. Monk only the 4th most dangerous player on the Skins offense? Baloney, King.

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Postby HEROHAMO » Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:25 am

The 4-6 can only work if you have an outstanding D line and Linebacker as well as a solid secondary.
Sean Taylor starting free safety Heavens team!

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Postby Dishgeek » Sat May 19, 2007 1:20 pm

welch wrote:I was just remembering a couple of great, great Redskins upsets in the playoffs. And smiling at the memory.


You made me smile too. The Falsons playoff game was the infamous MC Hammer game. It was proof positive that "swagger" is overrated. It also sadly illustrates why Irvin is in the Hall and Monk is not. The media, and by extension the electors, don't value guys that just show up and do their jobs with a minimum of fuss. I'm sure they hated the '91 Redskins 'cause they didn't run their mouths, and their sidelines were not a sideshow. It's just hard to fill in your column-inches writing about a team that is truly a team, greater than the sum of its parts, devoid of loudmouths desperate for attention.

HEROHAMO: I'm going to guess you also need a pretty good safety to run the 46, since it's named after one. It would certainly explain Williams' fascination with the position, too.

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Postby DEHog » Sun May 20, 2007 10:19 am

To say the 46 D is vulnerable to the pass is to say that all defenses are. What’s the best D against the pass? Prevent?? How many times have we seen team lose a game when they went to prevent? I heard a D1 defensive coordinator once say you need 17 player to cover the field on D…8 to cover the A,B,C, and D gaps and 9 to cover the intermediate, middle and long pass routes. Of course you can only use 11 players, so D coordinator have to adjust. They have to stop the run and cover to pass. The best way to do this is to disrupt the timing of the offense, that’s exactly what the 46 did. The 85 Bears defense was the best I ever saw. It was the best example of a coach using a scheme the fit the great players he had.

It was named for Doug Plank who was the eight man in the box, he wore the number “46”. What the Bears did was put eight men in the box, and dared you to pass. Eight men in the box meant you couldn’t run, on every play they would send at least 6 so they had a great pass rush, that left 5 to cover the offenses 5 man to man. If the TE stayed in to block that LB would come. The Skins had some success by having max protect and throwing is up for grabs, once they hit a few it took the eighth man out of the box, then they could run the ball.

I use a variation of this at the high school and Pop Warner level. For high school I call it “gap 8” I like it in the red zone to fill all eight gaps. At the pop warner lever, its call “gap on mirror” I cover all eight gaps first and go man to man with the rest. Hard to get young kids to play zone, plus I’m not to worry about the pass at that level. If they do pass I’m bringing at least 6 on every play and kids at that level have no clue who to block so in essence I’m blitzing every play.

So basically Buddy Ryan put eight in the box to stop the run, if you dared to pass he went man to man on the receivers and sent between 6 to 8 pass rushers. Who was coming was to hard part for o-line to figure out, either way Buddy was sure his 6-8 would beat whatever scheme you were in. The gaol was to sack the QB or at the least disrupt the timing of the play and nobody did it better than the 85 Bears.

Don’t forget they shellacked us 45-10 in 85. Dan Marino had a nice night against them with that quick release of his.

As for the Skins running it… I don’t think they have the personnel. Plus with the rules today, DB’s can’t breath on WR’s after 5 yards. Would be interesting to see if that D would be successful in today’s game.
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Postby BnGhog » Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:14 pm

hailskins666 wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:If we can get Smoot to defend that quick inside slant we'd be even better.
in light of recent events, it seems we'll have to get 'someone else' to cover that slant, now doesn't it? :shock:


It would seem..........dreams do come true.. :lol:
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Postby GSPODS » Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:07 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:If we can get Smoot to defend that quick inside slant we'd be even better.


Seems like a good time to revive this post ...

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Postby welch » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:11 pm

Note London Fletcher's explanation of he killer play in the Bills game. Fletcher said that the Bills had hit a seam in the defense.

Ouch.

Problem, maybe, was that the Redskins did not pressure the Bills QB on the play. Still, there was a lot of open space between the LOS and the receiver. It looked like all the DB's and LB's had been cleared out.

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