Ohalete or Bowen

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Postby curtis28 » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:28 pm

I say Ohalete is the best and pick Taylor and have him and Ohalete Starting
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Postby andyjens89 » Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:07 pm

I'd like to see Taylor wearing burgundy and gold next season but it wouldnt bother me who starts next to him.
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Postby ii7-V7 » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:05 pm

curtis28 wrote:I say Ohalete is the best and pick Taylor and have him and Ohalete Starting


I agree! I think that Ohalete is clearly better than Bowen. I would hate to see us get rid of him.

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Postby curtis28 » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:19 pm

I agree chad if you look at the stats Ohalete has been doing way better also Bowen had a couple concusions last season and hurt other players and started fight during practices and mini camps I would HATE to say us lose Ohalete this year him and Taylor would make a great team at safety

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Postby BringThePain! » Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:33 pm

Bowen.... Geez... Give the guy a chance! I'm not saying he's an All-Pro... but he's only been here one year, and he hits hard, an is atleast as good as Iffy back there...

Iffy's decent, but he's been here for years... and our safety's still have slways gotten burnt...

I'd give Bowen the chance alongside Taylor.... let Ohalete substitute....
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Postby ii7-V7 » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:10 pm

There is no way that you can objectively say that Bowen is as good or better than Ohalete. Think about all the times that Bowen tried to get the big hit instead of just getting the tackle and ended up whiffing. Think of the fact that Ohalete is younger, faster, and less banged up. Think about how Ohalete's stats were better last year in a Cover 2 defense which relies heavily upon having fast and intelligent Safeties. I just can't see how you can say that Bowen is as good as Ohalete. Don't get me wrong, I like Bowen, but I just don't think that he is as good as Ohalete. And if I had to choose one to keep around I would have to go with the younger, faster, and more succesful one.

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Postby Redskin006 » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:37 pm

i say keep them both. i really like both of them and i think they have extremely successful careers in the not so near future. but iffy if i had to keep only one.
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Postby BringThePain! » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:59 pm

chaddukes wrote:There is no way that you can objectively say that Bowen is as good or better than Ohalete. Think about all the times that Bowen tried to get the big hit instead of just getting the tackle and ended up whiffing. Think of the fact that Ohalete is younger, faster, and less banged up. Think about how Ohalete's stats were better last year in a Cover 2 defense which relies heavily upon having fast and intelligent Safeties. I just can't see how you can say that Bowen is as good as Ohalete. Don't get me wrong, I like Bowen, but I just don't think that he is as good as Ohalete. And if I had to choose one to keep around I would have to go with the younger, faster, and more succesful one.

Chad


Uh... I didn't want to be stat guy but you made me do it :D

Will use last years stats:

Iffy: 24(he'll be 25 in May) Bowen: 27..... big deal 2 years difference....It's not like 27 is old, especially for a Defensive back, Green played till he was 40...

I can't tell how you measured your speed factor for iffy but neither one of them where chasing guys down from behind....

Iffy: 95 tackles Bowen: 85 tackles.... big deal.... 10 tackles isn't the differnece between a pro-bowler and an average player....

Iffy: 3 interceptions Bowen: 3 interceptions... so there the same....

Iffy: 0 Forced Fumbles Bowen: 2 Forced Fumbles.... probably due to the fact that he hits harder....

like i said, they're "objectively" basically the same....

Iffy's had his chance.... I don't see much improvement.... We might as well see if Bowen can improve on his numbers and let him jar a couple more turnovers with those hard hits...

This is football... not a track meet :up:
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Postby RedskinsRule56 » Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:19 am

I would say IFFY is much better! Bowen is an aggresive high risk Safety who gets burned way too often! IFFY is only getting better and I think he will have a very solid year this year! Dont worry IFFY is not going anywhere! I want us to take Udeze in the draft not taylor!
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Postby BringThePain! » Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:28 am

RedskinsRule56 wrote:I would say IFFY is much better! Bowen is an aggresive high risk Safety who gets burned way too often! IFFY is only getting better and I think he will have a very solid year this year! Dont worry IFFY is not going anywhere! I want us to take Udeze in the draft not taylor!


You know why he's not going anywhere.... because he's not that good...he's was a RFA and hasn't even gotten any offers....

Iffy got burned plenty too.... Iffy isn't a track star....

I think you guys are attached to his name and the fact that he's been a Redskin a couple of year's.... Although, I appreciate him being here, and giving his all.... I'd rather give someone else a chance to see if they can do better... thats where Bowen comes in... :D
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Postby johnjack » Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:55 am

Many of you mention how hard Bowen hits, but the biggest hit I saw from him all year was in training camp on Trung Canidate. I happened to be at camp that day. I am just trying to think back to last season what other big hits we saw from him? I saw quite a bit of what I call "friendly fire" hitting his own teammates during games.

All that said, I think he and Iffy are about the same. One thing I think many of us agree on is, get Taylor. Taylor will give Greg Williams quite a bit of flexibility in his blitz schemes.

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Postby ii7-V7 » Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:00 am

BringThePain! wrote:Will use last years stats:

Iffy: 24(he'll be 25 in May) Bowen: 27..... big deal 2 years difference....It's not like 27 is old, especially for a Defensive back, Green played till he was 40...

I can't tell how you measured your speed factor for iffy but neither one of them where chasing guys down from behind....

Iffy: 95 tackles Bowen: 85 tackles.... big deal.... 10 tackles isn't the differnece between a pro-bowler and an average player....

Iffy: 3 interceptions Bowen: 3 interceptions... so there the same....

Iffy: 0 Forced Fumbles Bowen: 2 Forced Fumbles.... probably due to the fact that he hits harder....

like i said, they're "objectively" basically the same....

Iffy's had his chance.... I don't see much improvement.... We might as well see if Bowen can improve on his numbers and let him jar a couple more turnovers with those hard hits...

This is football... not a track meet :up:


I'm sorry but your stats support what I am saying. Ohalete has had one less year in the NFL but has more tackles, sacks, and way more interceptions. Ohalete has returned an interception for a touchdown. Bowen hasn't. In Bowens one extra year he has forced two more fumbles, and has defended three more passes than Ohalete.

Ohalete is playing Free Safety, a position which requires more speed. I don't recall his forty time, but I know that he is significantly faster.

In Bowens extra year in the NFL he should be the one having the better year. As the Strong Safety he should have more tackles.

Next year Taylor playing next to Ohalete is a more dangerous combo than Taylor playing next to Bowen.

As fot not seeing much improvement in Ohalete......What?!?!?!

Ohalete went from 9 tackles his first year to 67 his second to 103 last year.......I sure see the the improvement.

Ohalete is not super fast...At least not for a Free Safety. But as a strong safety he will be more than fast enough. He is definetly faster than Bowen. Oh yeah, he's bigger than Bowen too.

These are the facts....but what about the anecdotal evidence. What about the two complete misses that Bowen had for every one big hit. Do they keep a stat for touchdowns allowed? If so I'm pretty sure that Bowen would top that chart. Which player made the big plays when his team needed him? Did you know that all of Ohalete's Int's came on third down.

So, given all this....why are you so enamored with Bowen? I don't dislike Bowen, but I just can't see the argument for keeping him over Ohalete. Bowen is a good strong safety, Ohalete is just clearly better.

Chad

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Postby hkiss444 » Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:02 am

With Taylor's combination of size and speed the best part is that Bowen can play on first and second downs(running situations) and Iffy on more passing situations. Both are solid special teams players which will be a huge boost as well.

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Postby BringThePain! » Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:10 am

Uh.... dukes, i used last years stats because last year was the year both of them started at there positions....Ohalete had more opportunities in Washington during his 3 years.... and Bowen didn't get much of an opportunity w/ St. Louis or Green Bay.....so it's kinda un fair to use previous years stats.....

And you can't use TD run backs as a stat.... Unless there known for running back TD.... just because Iffy did it once doesn't make a him a great one.....

There's no way we can prove who's faster, who's missed more block's.....Your stateing your opinion....I'm giving you facts.....

First.... tackles mean very little when your ranking a player....It could mean that they threw Iffy's way more because WR's were more open on his side.... there for the WR would catch the ball and Iffy would have to tackle him.... Maybe the opposition didn't throw at bowen more because he's a better cover guy....I'm not saying this is true, I'm just saying this is why you can't use tackles = greatness....

I'm not even saying Bowen is better than Iffy.... but there Stats (from last year, the only year in both there career's that they both started at there positions), there stats say there close to equal players.... yet we've only seen what Bowen can do for one year.... Iffy hasn't improved.... he, just like Bowen got burnt on plays....

either way Bowen and Iffy will be here next year, and if we draft Taylor, like I hope we do, we'll see who Gibbs and company think's is the better pairing.
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Postby skins75 » Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:35 am

Lets hope that both of their tackle totals go down this year.

One thing I will say is that Bowen took some awful angles on tackles last year. At 27 he should have used better judgement and technique than what he did on several occasions. However, the scheme we used was clearly flawed and I am willing to give both the benefit of the doubt. We will be able to give a much more accurate opinion next year.

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