Should the Skins use this in games

Intimidated by intense football threads? Don't be... learn about football, the Washington Redskins and more.
^^^^^^^
Posts: 8987
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:52 pm

Should the Skins use this in games

Postby frankcal20 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:15 pm

How crazy would it be if the skins used these plays several times a game. Keep in mind there are 7 guys on the line of scrimmage.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IJOm-IJcbg0

the 'mudge
Posts: 14250
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine

Re: Should the Skins use this in games

Postby Countertrey » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:21 pm

frankcal20 wrote:How crazy would it be if the skins used these plays several times a game. Keep in mind there are 7 guys on the line of scrimmage.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IJOm-IJcbg0


You fail to consider 4 factors...

NFL D linemen
NFL Linebackers
NFL Safeties
and, finally...
NFL Cornerbacks...
"That's a clown question, bro"
- - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman
"But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have"
- - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:07 pm
Location: FedEx Field

Postby Skinna Mob » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:41 pm

brings back bad memories of the "pitch & catch" offense we had to witness. :oops:
"It's almost like, you play a kid's game for a king's ransom," he said. "And if you don't take it serious enough, eventually one day you're going to say, 'Oh, I could have done this, I could have done that."
Sean Taylor

-REDSKINS TILL I DIE-

cappster
Posts: 2956
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:25 am
Location: Humanist, at your service.

Re: Should the Skins use this in games

Postby Cappster » Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:52 pm

Countertrey wrote:
frankcal20 wrote:How crazy would it be if the skins used these plays several times a game. Keep in mind there are 7 guys on the line of scrimmage.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IJOm-IJcbg0


You fail to consider 4 factors...

NFL D linemen
NFL Linebackers
NFL Safeties
and, finally...
NFL Cornerbacks...


and that equates to a dead quarterback.
Sapphire AMD Radeon 6870, FTW!

Hog Bowl II Champion (2010)

#14
Posts: 4207
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:50 pm
Location: Louisville KY

Postby yupchagee » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:00 pm

I'm sure that if such an offense could work in the NFL, teams would be using it.
Skins fan since '55

"The constitution is not a suicide pact"- Abraham Lincoln

^^^^^^^
Posts: 8987
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:52 pm

Postby frankcal20 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:55 pm

Just something I wanted to share b/c I thought was cool. Did not put too much thought into it. I would be interested to see if it would work though.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 2114
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:37 pm
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Should the Skins use this in games

Postby die cowboys die » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:20 am

Cappster wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
frankcal20 wrote:How crazy would it be if the skins used these plays several times a game. Keep in mind there are 7 guys on the line of scrimmage.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IJOm-IJcbg0


You fail to consider 4 factors...

NFL D linemen
NFL Linebackers
NFL Safeties
and, finally...
NFL Cornerbacks...


and that equates to a dead quarterback.


people are always so quick to write off [/i]innovation[/i] as a "gimmick". remember that the forward pass itself was once widely viewed and derided as a novelty!

play the scenario out. yes, NFL defenders are much stronger and faster than high schoolers. but so are:

NFL Wide Receivers
NFL Tight Ends
NFL Running Backs
etc

so what are you suggesting, that the NFL linemen/LBs would knock the few skinny guys in front of the QBs to the ground and and get right to the QB so fast he'd have no time to escape, right? this is really no different than a routine NFL situation when a QB identifies a blitzer that will be unblocked, and adjusts to an extremely quick "hot route".
in fact, the "A-11" offense may offer an advantage in this situation:

*since the "linemen" are potentially eligible receivers, all you have to do is have one run straight ahead once the pass-rushing defender goes by him. all the QB has to do is flip the ball over that guy's head and hit a wide open receiver just in front of him.

could a defensive coordinator scheme a way to stop THAT response to the pass-rush? of course! but could an offensive coordinator scheme a way to adjust to and beat THAT defensive adjustment? of course!!! that's the beauty of football- its extraordinarily large strategic component means it is constantly evolving.


there is absolutely no reason ANY formation couldn't be successful in the NFL, as long as the players running it are highly skilled, and the coach implementing it is intelligent enough to scheme it properly. the only exception i can imagine is a deliberately absurd formation, such as having as many players as legally possible line up like 50 yards behind the line of scrimmage (although who knows, if you had devin hester and you at least left a QB up by the line to take the snap and heave it back to him and treated the whole thing like a punt return, it could work too!).


***of course, the question is, "is it a legal formation?" remember, it sneaks by the standard formation rules in HS because it is a "scrimmage-kick" formation. not sure if it would be legal in the NFL under their specific description of those rules.

the 'mudge
Posts: 14250
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine

Postby Countertrey » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:05 am

there is absolutely no reason ANY formation couldn't be successful in the NFL


There are reasons that formations which may be very successful in High School and College but have failed miserably in the NFL... the WishBone comes to mind...

And, it is absolutely about the huge differential in skill sets, size and speed from one position to the next, which exists in the NFL, but does not (for the most part) in college and high school.

These formations take advantage of the fact that there is relatively less difference in size, speed, and/or skill from one position to the next, and use that commonality in creating advantages for the offensive team, which cannot exist for long in the NFL.

Much like the "Fun n' Gun" only works in pre-season.

What happens to it once the season starts, and NFL defenses really start to apply some leverage...

dude... you gotta block somebody. The passing progression tree only works if you have a few seconds...

House of Cards, baby...
"That's a clown question, bro"
- - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman
"But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have"
- - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1553
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:23 pm
Location: Danville VA

Postby BnGhog » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:51 pm

It Could be a play for the NFL.

If a highschool QB can get 4 seconds to get rid of the ball.

In the NFL You would have to think three of your best lineman can your QB 1 to 1.5 seconds from shotgun. It will take them 1 second to get there unblocked anyway. And If you have a QB who can scramble, that will give him an extra 1/2 to 1 second. A WR like Moss can cover a lot of ground in 2 seconds, then add the time it takes the ball to get there. I mean Moss can do a 40 in what 4.3 seconds?


But I could see this working at the end of the game. You guys are thinking about the pass rush. But think about this, Most teams in the NFL play Prevent D in Hail mary situations. In which case they only have 2-3 pass rushers. I think 3 Pro linemen can block 2-3 pass rushers in that situation. And if you have enough time with a time out left, that would be a great draw play.

But if the D looks like they are going to rush 6 or more guys you would either have to dump it really quick, or change the play.
I firmly believe the Patriots are the antichrist.

Hog
Posts: 4716
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:20 am

Postby GSPODS » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:00 pm

The only place this formation would go in the NFL is backwards. On a dead ball foul.
It's not a legal NFL formation.

I can't imagine that needs to be explained but if it does, the legal formation rules can be found here:

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/positionofplayers

Position of Players at Snap
Offensive team must have at least seven players on line.
Offensive players, not on line, must be at least one yard back at snap.
(Exception: player who takes snap.)
No interior lineman may move abruptly after taking or simulating a three-point stance.
No player of either team may enter neutral zone before snap.
No player of offensive team may charge or move abruptly, after assuming set position, in such manner as to lead defense to believe snap has started. No player of the defensive team within one yard of the line of scrimmage may make an abrupt movement in an attempt to cause the offense to false start.
If a player changes his eligibility, the Referee must alert the defensive captain after player has reported to him.
All players of offensive team must be stationary at snap, except one back who may be in motion parallel to scrimmage line or backward (not forward).
After a shift or huddle all players on offensive team must come to an absolute stop for at least one second with no movement of hands, feet, head, or swaying of body.
Quarterbacks can be called for a false start penalty (five yards) if their actions are judged to be an obvious attempt to draw an opponent offside.
Offensive linemen are permitted to interlock legs.


We're already done thinking about this formation at the first rule. :wink:

aka Evil Hog
User avatar
Posts: 6481
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 8:01 am
Location: South of Heaven, trying to hit a toilet on shrooms

Re: Should the Skins use this in games

Postby hailskins666 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:48 pm

frankcal20 wrote:How crazy would it be if the skins used these plays several times a game. Keep in mind there are 7 guys on the line of scrimmage.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IJOm-IJcbg0
spurrier thought crazy college plays would work too.... ROTFALMAO
THN's resident jerk.

Glock .40 Model 22 - First* line of home defense.... 'ADT' is for liberals.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 623
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:54 pm
Location: Annandale, VA

Postby Thundersloth » Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:49 am

Things like the single wing and wing-t offenses wouldn't work in the NFL either just like this offense wouldn't work.

At most you can only have 5 eligible receivers going out for a pass no matter what formation you run. Only the last guys on the line of scrimmage and guys in the backfield can go out for a pass legally.

Who wins when stuff is being drawn up between OCs and DCs...the last one with the chalk.
If you're mad at your kid, you can either raise him to be a nose tackle or send him out to play on the freeway. It's about the same. ~Bob Golic

Return to Football 101