BLOW IT UP!!

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Postby redskins14ru » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:20 pm

He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind" - Proverbs 11:29

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bravo bravo blow it up
I love watching and waiting to see what the hecks going on.
god blessed us with # 59 ... go skins
REDSKINS FOOTBALL RULES

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Postby VRIEL1 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:27 pm

dad23hogjrs, cutting these players

Springs - Saves 6M
Taylor - Saves 8.5M
M. Washington - Saves 4.5M
Griffin - Saves 3.62M
Rabach - Saves 2.35M
Daniels - Saves 2.3M

saves us about 27.5 mill or close to it. Now minus the 3 mill over we already are and we are down to 24.5 mill.

As you said getting rid if:

ARE: 600k
Jansen: 2.8m
Thomas: 4.5m

That's about 8.5 mill or close to it. Minus these from the total and we are down to about 15.5 mill.

I think we can keep Moss but put him as the #2 or #3 WR. Limit his role so when he is in his legs are fresh and is a real threat. Portis has probably another year or two, but we need to start thinking ahead as a replacement. I would not trade Cooley due to cost to cut and because he was home grown and is still relatively young. Plus he is if not the #1 TE he is the #2 in the league. Keep him for a few more years.

Are real problem now comes with locating replacements. If we go FA we will be spending a lot of money. In the draft we only have 4 picks. Which means some of the glaring wholes after cuts will have to come from non drafted players or look at really cheap players to replace the ones we get rid of. Which also means they may not be as talented but will be more healthy.

I'm for "Rebuild" mode. Atleast my hopes will not be as high as the perverbial "Were close" montra. Plus we would be getting younger and cutting our budget. I like how the Patriots have handled their team but I believe it also goes back to having excellent talent scouts and sticking with the same shceme for more then 3 years.

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Postby Irn-Bru » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:36 pm

VRIEL1 wrote:dad23hogjrs, cutting these players

Springs - Saves 6M
Taylor - Saves 8.5M
M. Washington - Saves 4.5M
Griffin - Saves 3.62M
Rabach - Saves 2.35M
Daniels - Saves 2.3M

saves us about 27.5 mill or close to it. Now minus the 3 mill over we already are and we are down to 24.5 mill.

As you said getting rid if:

ARE: 600k
Jansen: 2.8m
Thomas: 4.5m

That's about 8.5 mill or close to it. Minus these from the total and we are down to about 15.5 mill.

I think we can keep Moss but put him as the #2 or #3 WR. Limit his role so when he is in his legs are fresh and is a real threat.


This is basically how I would have answered dad23hogjrs, so I'll just quote it and agree with it. If you look at the implications of making these moves, that's enough (in my opinion, anyway) to qualify as "blowing it up."

I think my personal list of cuts / moves would be a bit different, but the Redskins are really in decent cap position if they are serious about making BIG changes. Whether that's what they actually want to do is another story. . .

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Postby dad23hogjrs » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:54 pm

I am not at all for getting rid of anyone that hurts our cap situation.

I agree there are players that don't have it anymore, but they can not "have it" on the bench and not cust us cap space.

Cut the ones that clear space:
Springs - Saves 6M
Taylor - Saves 8.5M
M. Washington - Saves 4.5M
Griffin - Saves 3.62M
Rabach - Saves 2.35M
Daniels - Saves 2.3M

*************
Sign D Hall
Scary options include Gross and Haynesworth, but I think there you will just be perpetuating the issue. If you do Gross, no more than 4 years...I don't trust Haynesworth once he gets paid.
Pay someone to start in place of M Washington ( I like Dansby, who should be reasonably priced given the other LB's avail, ie Suggs, Scott, Etc.)

http://www.nfl.com/players/karlosdansby ... =DAN762622

Then we will need:
Guard - Reinhart will have to play
DE - pick 13 - better not miss Vinny
Center - 3rd Rounder - best shot we have
DT - Resign Gholston and Montgomery - are they dynamic? NO, but they are young and servicable

This is not a lot different, but its a little different...and it puts us down the path of being patient, drafting, and playing the guys that win in camp

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Postby Irn-Bru » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:46 pm

I agree with almost all of that, dad23. I think I'd rather see us take a DT at #13 (I'm not up to speed on this draft class, so I don't know who specifically.) I'm with you 100% on Haynesworth; I will be pretty upset if we are the team that decides to give him his payday. I think our DE's will be better than they currently look once we solidify the inner line—and that's why I'd say draft DT at #1, not DE.
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"Dream team." - Vince Young, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Eagles

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Postby VRIEL1 » Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:09 pm

I think you have to go after either Gross or Haynesworth. We need either a top OL to solidify our RT side or a top DT who can collapse a pocket. I would not do both. Do one and look to fill the other position from the draft at #13. and to be honest as much as I would rather have Haynesworth (cause I don't see a down side to him) it would be better to get a seasoned RT to help protect JC. We can pick up a top DT in the draft and train him quickly to just collapse a pocket.

I'm sorry I just don't feel the picking a LB or DE at #13 is a necessity. We brought in 3 DE's last year and couldn't get a decent pass rush. I think we need to try a DT.

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Postby PulpExposure » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:10 pm

VRIEL1 wrote:I think you have to go after either Gross or Haynesworth. We need either a top OL to solidify our RT side or a top DT who can collapse a pocket. I would not do both. Do one and look to fill the other position from the draft at #13. and to be honest as much as I would rather have Haynesworth (cause I don't see a down side to him) it would be better to get a seasoned RT to help protect JC. We can pick up a top DT in the draft and train him quickly to just collapse a pocket.

I'm sorry I just don't feel the picking a LB or DE at #13 is a necessity. We brought in 3 DE's last year and couldn't get a decent pass rush. I think we need to try a DT.


Downsides to Haynesworth are well known; he wants franchise QB money (10 million a year); and he's incredibly injury prone. Over the past 6 seasons he has played in an average of 77% of games...less than either Shawn Springs or Cornelius Griffin. The last time he played in 16 games was his rookie season.

It's a double shot. Paying huge, salary cap busting money for a part time player. When he's healthy, he's great...but he's always injured. And I can't imagine he'd get magically healthier as he ages.

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Postby dad23hogjrs » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:15 pm

"Over the past 6 seasons he has played in an average of 77% of games...less than either Shawn Springs or Cornelius Griffin."


I had not seen that stat before...
previously I was on the fence on Haynesworth , leaning to no
Now I'd have to say I am running the other way.

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Postby Irn-Bru » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:30 pm

Yeah, we are going to pay Haynesworth top dollar to have him wear sweat pants and joke around on the sidelines.

It's really sad that Griffin never fully worked out for us. He had potential coming from NY and had moments of greatness here during '04 and '05. . .after that he has played—if at all—injured, deflated, and uninspired.
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"Dream team." - Vince Young, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Eagles

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Postby Californiaskin » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:40 am

yeah I say DT at 13 as some mocks have us getting the third or fourth choice o line there.
I guess I did not realize the implications of trading cooley capwise...dude can play. Gross would realllly help our run game.

Collins needs to be gone though. we need to try to groom another qb if jason does not work out and collins is not the answer.

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Postby Fios » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:59 am

PulpExposure wrote:
VRIEL1 wrote:I think you have to go after either Gross or Haynesworth. We need either a top OL to solidify our RT side or a top DT who can collapse a pocket. I would not do both. Do one and look to fill the other position from the draft at #13. and to be honest as much as I would rather have Haynesworth (cause I don't see a down side to him) it would be better to get a seasoned RT to help protect JC. We can pick up a top DT in the draft and train him quickly to just collapse a pocket.

I'm sorry I just don't feel the picking a LB or DE at #13 is a necessity. We brought in 3 DE's last year and couldn't get a decent pass rush. I think we need to try a DT.


Downsides to Haynesworth are well known; he wants franchise QB money (10 million a year); and he's incredibly injury prone. Over the past 6 seasons he has played in an average of 77% of games...less than either Shawn Springs or Cornelius Griffin. The last time he played in 16 games was his rookie season.

It's a double shot. Paying huge, salary cap busting money for a part time player. When he's healthy, he's great...but he's always injured. And I can't imagine he'd get magically healthier as he ages.


I'm of the belief that even if he were to play all 16 games every year for the next 5, this would still be a bad signing. That's just way too much money to commit to one player for a team that has both multiple needs and very little in the way of cap space.
RIP Sean Taylor

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Postby Californiaskin » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:26 am

maybe the team needs to approach the season this year as rebuilding........get rid of the old high cap guys and bring in new.......I think that with the rebuild approach in mind the team could probably overachieve (ie win more games) instead of going into the season with the added pressure of high expectations when really we dont have the talent to compete for the title and are handcuffed by our cap.

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Postby crazyhorse1 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:51 am

Californiaskin wrote:Yep blow it up starting with Kendall, Jansen, Randy Thomas, El, griffin, washington, Collins Jason fricken Taylor, Springs, fabini

Trade cooley for a #2 OR 3


im with you monk


Trading one of the best TE's in football for a second or third round draft pick is insane. You started well, but blew the last call.

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Postby DarthMonk » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:54 am

Below is the post that laid out cap implications. It's great info. Let's assume they are good data. 2 things:

1) All the cap hits just last one year. Massive cap room results in 1 year.

2) We have yet to discuss compensatory picks.

"Under the NFL's collective bargaining agreement, teams that lose more or better "compensatory" free agents than they acquire in a year are eligible to receive compensatory draft choices. No team can receive more than four."

Now although it looks painful (and may be) if we let go of say Jansen, Portis, Taylor, and Washington we save a net of 3 million immediately and are well on our way to 4 compensatory picks as well as a quick extra 23 million in cap space a year down the road. Three of those players (Jansen, Taylor, Washington) figure to not really help us next year (based on age and the last couple of years) and Portis (already locker room poison?) can be replaced. He's not Jim Brown and even Brown was probably replaceable to a certain extent by Bobby Mitchell (ask Welch).

I say get rid of these guys and a few more (Springs and Daniels?) and get

1) 13 million of immediate relief

2) 30 million in space in 1 year

3) 4 more draft picks

4) younger

We might even get better immediately and certainly will long term - especially if we finish the blow up in one more year.

Cooley is an example of what we want to do. Draft wisely and pay a homegrown star. He's a keeper.

We should mostly let the remaining linemen play out their contracts and draft replacements. My personal favorite for the #13 is Alex Mack, a center. Most mock drafts put him around #20 so a trade down while getting an extra pick along with Mack could be a possibility. He is generally thought of as a potential all-pro and many say "the best lineman in the draft, period." Check this out:

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2009_NFL_Draft/Alex_Mack.htm

DarthMonk

dad23hogjrs wrote:Blow it up?

Sure, here are some guys that would be a part of the "destruction"

ARE - moving him would increase our # against the cap 600k, we are already 3-4 M over, depending on where you get your info

Jansen - I've seen people coming for his head...great, that will cost you 2.78 million against the cap

Portis - YEAH, LETS GET CRAZY...crazy will cost you 7.7 M against the cap

Some other guys that not everyone is pointing pitch forks at, but would fit into blowing it up...

R. Thomas - costs you 4.5 M to move him; Moss - 464k against the cap to move; everyone on the "Trade Rogers" bandwagon - check this out - 1.43 M against the cap to pull that trigger

and my personal favorite:
"Trade cooley for a #2 OR 3" - that will cost you 8.1 M against the cap

We found a gem....so now you want to trade him so we can maybe do it again...but most likely not...makes sense.


You can't "Blow it Up" completely

why? because we laced the place with plutonium...


guys you can get rid of - more of a wittling

Springs - Saves 6M
Taylor - Saves 8.5M
M. Washington - Saves 4.5M
Griffin - Saves 3.62M
Rabach - Saves 2.35M
Daniels - Saves 2.3M

Sorry to say, everyone else costs you against the cap, or is worth more than what they save you against the cap.
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Postby VRIEL1 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:20 pm

Darthmonk, If that's possible then I'm for it. Not only do we get rid of high priced players we get a few extra picks in order to get younger.

My only concern is the fact that by cutting or letting Portis go who will be our next star RB? Betts is not a #1 RB. Rock is no better. We let my favorite go (Mason) who tore it up in preseason. So we would have to be looking at a decent RB to replace Portis from the draft or non drafted players.

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