Nicholas Berg

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Nicholas Berg

Postby gambit187 » Thu May 13, 2004 1:21 pm

I guess this subject was too heavy for anyone to talk about it, but its been eating me up inside since i heard and seen the story.

This was the only thing i could do besides say a silent prayer for him and his family and go outside and shout curse words at the top of my lungs.


I was super pissed off.

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Postby SkinsChic » Fri May 14, 2004 10:03 am

Amen Gambit - it tears me up inside.
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Postby DEHog » Sat May 15, 2004 7:32 am

I'm not sure what to say about this. I normally don't follow the cases we process here at Dover, but first Tillman and now Berg. I thought I had seen just about every way a man could die and then this happened. I can't imagine being his mother or father...my prayers are with the Bergs. Bacause Berg was from Philly it's not only been on the national but also the local news here, hard to avoid it. If you have not seen the video...DON"T!! I really didn't have a choice it's part of my job. I wish I had never seen it,this one is tough to accept!!
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Postby hailskins666 » Sat May 15, 2004 9:06 am

well, i had to check it out now that its all built up in the news. while i completely detest what happened, he should have never been there in the first place. its well known that iraq is a hostile enviroment. the military personnel are the only ones that should be there. they have a job to do. the media, and "good samaritans" that are there, are doing nothing but getting in the way and just asking for trouble. i have to question the common sense of any american civilian in iraq. you play with fire and you get burnt, unfortunantly for berg and his family, they got burnt. My 2 cents
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Postby curveball » Sat May 15, 2004 10:23 pm

I'm reserving judgment on this, but something just doesn't pass the smell test.
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Postby NikiH » Sun May 16, 2004 10:04 pm

I cannot believe I'm saying this but I agree with curveball here. I mean he wasn't a contractor. And I heard they had ties between him and Masawie. I know I spelled that wrong sorry.

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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon May 17, 2004 5:30 am

He may have been in some suspicion surrounding him (apparently he had some casual links to one of the 9-11 hijackers, his work in Iraq was as a contractor--groups of people that along with the media, like hailskins666 pointed out, tend to "get in the way"). But to say that he shouldn't have been there isn't right. Iraq needs more than just military personel to get them up and running.

The military isn't going to do a great job of setting up clean water pipelines, schools, hospitals, businesses, etc. They are there to keep the peace and bring stability to the region. What Iraq needs are courageous business-people (both natives and foreigners like Berg) to come into that dangerous environment and rebuild a nation that isn't just peaceful but also economically promising.

I know that no one here is making his murder out to be anything less than the tragedy it is; but part of the tragedy has to be that he was one of the many private workers trying to make the nation function on more levels than just national peace.
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Postby hailskins666 » Mon May 17, 2004 10:32 am

But to say that he shouldn't have been there isn't right. Iraq needs more than just military personel to get them up and running.
i agree to an extent. its still too much of a hostile environmet right now though. let the military continue to police the areas until its safe to send someone in.
but, its still iraq's own responsibility to rebuild its country as well. the people of iraq have to take it upon themselves to get things started. but they won't, because right now they are in the middle of civil war. which brings me back to my first point. berg should have never been there in the first place. you can't just go into a hostile environment and say "i come in peace" and expect to be on your merry way. especially when half the people there blame americans for whats going on in the first place.
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Postby NikiH » Mon May 17, 2004 10:32 am

Hey fan, I was in your neck of the woods on Friday. The mall is so different then 10 years ago. LOL Anyway, I am not belittling the work of the contractors at all. They actually are all sponsered by companies with their foots in the door, that send them there. That I feel is very couragous. But packing up your bags and heading to Iraq to help out is a little silly. They have not yet proved this kid had any work there. His death is very tragic. I just think that things surrounding his death are not as clear as they are being made to seem.
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Postby skinsfaninroanoke » Mon May 17, 2004 11:23 am

They had a two man company - him and his father. They supposedly set up radio antenna for a living.

According to stories I heard - I would take what his father says with a small grain of salt - he was a very avid anti war protestor before his son ever got involved, the son was pro war, he was warned 4 WEEKS before this happened, offered a flight out, refused it, was all by himself with no security, and had a passport with an Isreali stamp in it from where he had visited that country.

All I have to say is that for someone to come out and say this was all about the sins of the leaders of this country, well - it is obviously the shock and loss that is affecting him.

This very white guy (myself I mean) wouldn't be caught over there without some very extensive protection in place, and I wouldn't certainly be out in the open where they could get a hold of me, at least without me being able to shoot several of them first.

Of course, being ex military might have something to do with that mindset.

I just don't think something is kosher here - but no matter what was done to the prisoners, and I saw a bunch of the pics, no one deserved that. I would love to get my ex-intel hands on those thugs - I would show them was a real interrogation was all about. They think THAT was torture? Laying naked in a pile with dead pigs laid all around you?

Come on - the nakedness is standard tactics in ANY country for male prisoners. Breaking potty training, changing dietary habits, light and sensory deprivation - all that is standard and a lot more humane than field interrogations - that I know about.

All in all - nothing, and I repeat, nothing smells right about this whole situation.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon May 17, 2004 11:33 am

Yes, I definitely agree with everyone that the details around what he was doing are pretty unclear and even a bit shady as for right now. Also, I didn't mean to imply that anyone was trashing the work of the contractors.

However, I still disagree with you skinsfan666 in that it is important for private companies to go in right now. The Iraqis, due to decades of oppression, are not currently capable of doing the things that need to get done (i.e. supplying clean drinking water, providing basic humanitarian aid, etc.) It isn't stupid when people volunteer to go over there and work, it's courageous. They are making sacrifices and putting their lives on the line in order to get that country to the point where it can support itself in these ways.

As for the country being too dangerous, I tend to disagree in some respects. For one, I don't think that the resistance is as wide spread as it looks on the news coverage. Part of this is because of news slant, but it's also because a small minority can make it really seem like it's a lot more dangerous than it actually is. (And yes, it is dangerous there, I just don't think so dangerous that all companies should keep willing humanitarian workers out).

The strangest part is, as SFIR pointed out, that he didn't take a LOT of help and security that the US offered. That's where it gets very suspicious, if you ask me.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon May 17, 2004 11:48 am

Hey fan, I was in your neck of the woods on Friday. The mall is so different then 10 years ago.


Oh yes, and I can't wait to get back to Annapolis myself. During the summer I work about a quarter of the mile down the road from the mall. I go to school out-of state; and as much as I'd hate to admit it in front of my buddies, I'm really a guy that just likes to be home more than anything else. Home is where my mom is, can't get too much better than that. . .
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Postby skinsfaninroanoke » Mon May 17, 2004 4:17 pm

He not only didn't have a LOT of help - he had NONE.

Not to mention the fact that you would think you might have to have a CREW to put up antennae like my brother in law used to.

I do agree with HS666 that the crews need to be there - but under company's protection and a lot of security. The military isn't gonna do the job that a Haliburton is, for example. No way. But you want to bring in a company that can and will hire mercs to do the job of protection. Top mercs - not like the four who were so sloppy that got slagged.

I mean - always taking the same route, not changing speeds, all in one car, windows up, nothing noticed - most experts in detailing how the ambush happened pointed out inconsistencies that would have twigged me or my teammates when I was in the service, and we weren't trained in this stuff.

PLEASE don't get me wrong - they are ALL on our team... and I mourn them. But to learn from mistakes you list 'em and analyze them - sometimes that gets mistaken for cold bloodedness.
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Postby redskincity » Mon May 17, 2004 8:31 pm

I feel sorry for those people. We will handle them soon :wink:
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon May 17, 2004 8:37 pm

I think we need to pull our guys out. Its hard to help people who don't want to be helped and so many of them want us to leave.

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