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The Hogster
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Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 7002
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 7:31 pm Post subject: What Ever Happened to the Run & Shoot Offense |
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| Might sound funny, but remember when the "Run & Shoot" was the hot new offense to run. The Houston Oilers probably ran it the best in the early 1990's. Does anyone think that a revival or variation of the Run & Shoot would work for a team in today's NFL? |
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air_hog
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Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 2776
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Forget about the Run N Shoot.
It's 2005, year of the "Cock N Gun"  |
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The Hogster
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Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 7002
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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 "Block & Run" is what we needed to do when he was here. I guess he realized there was no "Fun" in the "Fun & Gun" so he replaced it with........nevermind.  |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| air_hog wrote: | Forget about the Run N Shoot.
It's 2005, year of the "Cock N Gun" |
Cock and Fire |
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air_hog
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Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 2776
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| 1niksder wrote: | | air_hog wrote: | Forget about the Run N Shoot.
It's 2005, year of the "Cock N Gun" |
Cock and Fire |
See, I'm not even cool enough for it.
Dab Nabitt! |
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tcwest10
put AM in the HOF
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 8734
Location: NEPA
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| Posted: Tue May 10, 2005 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Buddy Ryan called it "Chuck & Duck", didn't he ? |
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General Failure
Hog
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 3472
Location: Croydon, PA
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| Buddy was always a cunning linguist. |
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Primetime42
Hog
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 1722
Location: Romo-sexual
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 9:14 am Post subject: |
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I ran the Run & Shoot in high school.  |
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Redskins Rule
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Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 1788
Location: Burke, VA
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| Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| tcwest10 wrote: | | Buddy Ryan called it "Chuck & Duck", didn't he ? |
I don't know about Buddy Ryan calling it that, but I do know Sonny Jurgeson called it that. |
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welch
Skins History Buff
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4665
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Richie Petibon probably called it "lunch".
During the 1991 season, when the run&shoot was thought to be unstoppable:
Sep 1 W 45-0 vs Detroit Lions
Nov 3 W 16-13 vs Houston Oilers (OT)
Nov 10 W 56-17 vs Atlanta Falcons
Jan 4 W 24-7 vs Atlanta Falcons (1st round playoffs)
Jan 12 W 41-10 vs Detroit Lions (NFC Championship)
Totals: Redskins: 182 Run & shoot: 47
Average: Redskins: 36.4 Run & shoot: 9.4
Playoffs average: Redskins: 32.5 Run & Shoot: 8.5
(Note that the Falcons playoff was played in a rainstorm, causing Gibbs to eliminate the long-passing game. As a memory-jogger, that was the game in which fans frisbeed yellow seat-covers down at The Great All Star Neon Deion Sanders as he waited for a kickoff.)
Conclusion? The R&S will not work in the NFL. |
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SKINZ_DOMIN8
Domin8
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 583
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Run and shoot is good on Madden. |
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Irn-Bru
FanFromAnnapolis
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 10627
Location: on the bandwagon
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| Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| SKINZ_DOMIN8 wrote: | | Run and shoot is good on Madden. |
And the pass-happy Tecmo Superbowl (I always ran the ball anyway). Though I think that Tecmo came out before teams began routinely destroying the Run and Shoot.
Question: could the R&S have facilitated the end of the "read and react" era of defenses and helped bring us into an era of much more aggressive, attacking style of play? It seems like one of the best answers to a consistent 5 lineman / 4 receiver set is a few well timed/aimed blitzes down the middle and tough play on the receivers. |
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welch
Skins History Buff
Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 4665
Location: New York, NY
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Question: could the R&S have facilitated the end of the "read and react" era of defenses and helped bring us into an era of much more aggressive, attacking style of play? It seems like one of the best answers to a consistent 5 lineman / 4 receiver set is a few well timed/aimed blitzes down the middle and tough play on the receivers. |
Interesting question, FFA.
- We know that Buddy Ryan made the NFL notice the all-blitz-all-the-time 46 defense in '85, although, I think the Bears had used it in '84.
- We also know that the R&S Lions humiliated Dave Wannstadt's Dallas defense in the playoffs after the '91 season. On every play, there was one Detroit receiver open somewhere. I don;t know what defense the Cowboys were playing, but it was not the right one (note: that's a joking paraphrase of Richie Petibon. Reporter: Richie, how can your Redskins possibly stop an offense that beat the Cowboys so badly? Petibon: I don't know, but I guess we won't do what Dallas did.)
- Petibon, Pardee, and George Allen -- they're like a family in defensive coaching -- were always mixing attack with react, changing the look of their defense as the offense broke huddle: in general, making the offense read and react to them, rather than the reverse.
- So...I don't know. I know that the first play in the Lions/Redskins NFC Championship was a crushing sack on Erik Kramer by THE Charles Mann. Kramer fumbled, the team of destiny recovered, scored a TD, and the game was over. I can't remember if the Redskins blitzed, although I remember that Mann rushed past Barry Sanders so fast that it looked like Sanders was waving "hello / good-bye". That suggests Sanders was looking at someone else, so maybe it was a blitz.
- A real defensive coaching expert would have to answer this definitively. |
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Redskin in Canada
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Joined: 08 Apr 2004
Posts: 10278
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| FanfromAnnapolis wrote: | | Question: could the R&S have facilitated the end of the "read and react" era of defenses and helped bring us into an era of much more aggressive, attacking style of play? |
As long as you have an indestructible TERMINATOR as a QB!  |
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butzadams
piglet
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Protection problems KILLED IT!
The biggest problem was protecting the A gap playside when the LB being blocked by the back dogged the A gap. Because the QB was on a tight roll out to that side, it was difficult for the RB to clear the QB and get to the A gap dogger. If the PST and PSG squeezed to the dogger, then the RB was blocking a big DE who was in the face of the QB on the tight roll. When June Jones, Gilbride, and some others ran the offense, they eliminated the tight roll which made protecting the A gap easier. |
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