Why we probably draft a QB with the 4th overall pick

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Postby brad7686 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:44 pm

Deadskins wrote:
brad7686 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:The only way you pick a QB in the first round is if you project him to be a once in a decade QB. If you draft someone who is not, to play behind one of the worst O-line's in the league, it's just a waste of a pick. The kid will be so shellshocked, he'll be out of the league in 3 years.

You don't necessarily have to start him season 1.


Yea, we know. Problem is we have a chance to draft an elite OT or take a qb with questions. Also, we more than likely need TWO OT's out of this draft, if we even want to field a competitive team next year. Drafting a qb in the first round this draft guarantees a lack of competitiveness for next season, where if you solidify the line and maybe add a rb, wr, etc. the team might not be that bad.

I don't care about next year's team having a good year. I want them to build for the long term future. If that means getting a franchise QB, then so be it. Like the OP said, lineman can be found throughout the early rounds of the draft, but if you have an opportunity to pick in the top 5, a QB might be the better choice long term.


Well I'll just say there are no Dan Marino's in this draft and leave it at that.
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Postby SkinsJock » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:48 pm

brad7686 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:The only way you pick a QB in the first round is if you project him to be a once in a decade QB. If you draft someone who is not, to play behind one of the worst O-line's in the league, it's just a waste of a pick. The kid will be so shellshocked, he'll be out of the league in 3 years.

You don't necessarily have to start him season 1.

Problem is we have a chance to draft an elite OT or take a qb with questions.

I think Shanahan and Allen take the "elite OT" - are you sure that Okung is rated that high?
What if Shanahan and Allen rate one of the QBs as having more upside for the franchise than the "elite OT"?
Also, we more than likely need TWO OT's out of this draft, if we even want to field a competitive team next year. Drafting a qb in the first round this draft guarantees a lack of competitiveness for next season, where if you solidify the line and maybe add a rb, wr, etc. the team might not be that bad.

I don't think that many here think we're going to be a competitive franchise that quickly - do you think we have a chance of having a decent offensive line and all the other pieces that mean we can be a decent group offensively, that quickly?

I think we will need 3 drafts and some pretty good FA acquisitions - we are going to see changes on both offense and defense - we are a franchise with very few players playing as a team - we need a lot of help - we might see a consistently competitive product on the field in 2 seasons - that means 2012, not next year - :lol:
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Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

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Postby brad7686 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:58 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
brad7686 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:The only way you pick a QB in the first round is if you project him to be a once in a decade QB. If you draft someone who is not, to play behind one of the worst O-line's in the league, it's just a waste of a pick. The kid will be so shellshocked, he'll be out of the league in 3 years.

You don't necessarily have to start him season 1.

Problem is we have a chance to draft an elite OT or take a qb with questions.

I think Shanahan and Allen take the "elite OT" - are you sure that Okung is rated that high?
What if Shanahan and Allen rate one of the QBs as having more upside for the franchise than the "elite OT"?
Also, we more than likely need TWO OT's out of this draft, if we even want to field a competitive team next year. Drafting a qb in the first round this draft guarantees a lack of competitiveness for next season, where if you solidify the line and maybe add a rb, wr, etc. the team might not be that bad.

I don't think that many here think we're going to be a competitive franchise that quickly - do you think we have a chance of having a decent offensive line and all the other pieces that mean we can be a decent group offensively, that quickly?

I think we will need 3 drafts and some pretty good FA acquisitions - we are going to see changes on both offense and defense - we are a franchise with very few players playing as a team - we need a lot of help - we might see a consistently competitive product on the field in 2 seasons - that means 2012, not next year - :lol:


Well with an O-line we could go 8-8, without, probly another 4-12. And its just going to stay like that every year we don't address the line. When Bradford can't move fast enough behind our lack of an o-line, and we have to draft another qb after he dies, thats another year we don't address the O-line. It's like a dance we've been doing ever since Samuels was drafted, which if we didn't have two first rounders I'm not even sure they would have taken him.
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Postby SkinsJock » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:08 pm

brad7686 wrote:Well with an O-line we could go 8-8, without, probably another 4-12. And it's just going to stay like that every year we don't address the line.

OK - we all know we need an offensive line that can be somewhat effective - why is it that you (and some others) are implying that we can have one or not? We all want a decent offensive line but most here understand that that not only takes players but also some time, like more than a year :roll:
You cannot go from having an offensive line like we did last year to having even a half way decent line ready to play this year.

When Bradford can't move fast enough behind our lack of an offensive line, and we have to draft another qb after he dies, that's another year we don't address the O-line. It's like a dance we've been doing ever since Samuels was drafted, which if we didn't have two first rounders I'm not even sure they would have taken him.


are you really serious - if we draft a QB do you think he's just going to be ineffective because the coaches are going to waste him?

do you think it's just draft a couple of guys and add some free agent offensive linemen here and bingo, come September, Campbell or whomever is behind center, is going to be OK?

WAKE UP - IT IS GOING TO BE THE 2012 SEASON before this franchise can put a competitive product on the field

Our best offensive lineman (D. Dockery) is not able to be a decent back-up offensive lineman on almost every team in the NFL :shock:

WE HAVE HUGE PROBLEMS AT ALMOST EVERY OFFENSIVE POSITION and some here think that will be "fixed" in a year or two - that just does not show any sense at all :lol:
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

Hail to the Redskins

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Postby SkinsJock » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:12 pm

C'mon guys - we are a part of the NFC East - we need a dominant offensive line - all these other teams are way ahead of us

we are trying to rebuild this franchise - give these guys a break and be a little patient while we find our way back to respectability - it is not just happening like magic
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

Hail to the Redskins

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Postby CanesSkins26 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:26 am

brad7686 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:
brad7686 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:The only way you pick a QB in the first round is if you project him to be a once in a decade QB. If you draft someone who is not, to play behind one of the worst O-line's in the league, it's just a waste of a pick. The kid will be so shellshocked, he'll be out of the league in 3 years.

You don't necessarily have to start him season 1.

Problem is we have a chance to draft an elite OT or take a qb with questions.

I think Shanahan and Allen take the "elite OT" - are you sure that Okung is rated that high?
What if Shanahan and Allen rate one of the QBs as having more upside for the franchise than the "elite OT"?
Also, we more than likely need TWO OT's out of this draft, if we even want to field a competitive team next year. Drafting a qb in the first round this draft guarantees a lack of competitiveness for next season, where if you solidify the line and maybe add a rb, wr, etc. the team might not be that bad.

I don't think that many here think we're going to be a competitive franchise that quickly - do you think we have a chance of having a decent offensive line and all the other pieces that mean we can be a decent group offensively, that quickly?

I think we will need 3 drafts and some pretty good FA acquisitions - we are going to see changes on both offense and defense - we are a franchise with very few players playing as a team - we need a lot of help - we might see a consistently competitive product on the field in 2 seasons - that means 2012, not next year - :lol:


Well with an O-line we could go 8-8, without, probly another 4-12. And its just going to stay like that every year we don't address the line. When Bradford can't move fast enough behind our lack of an o-line, and we have to draft another qb after he dies, thats another year we don't address the O-line. It's like a dance we've been doing ever since Samuels was drafted, which if we didn't have two first rounders I'm not even sure they would have taken him.


Drafting a couple of offensive linemen isn't going to get us to 8-8. People like to point to the offensive line and it is a problem. However, the problems on this team go far beyond just the offensive line. You look at our offensive and there is pretty much zero elite talent on that unit outside of Cooley. On defense we are likely going to have some issues if we do in fact switch to a 3-4 and the secondary is also a major concern. It's going to take 2-3 seasons for this team to get fixed.
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Postby HEROHAMO » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:49 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
brad7686 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:
brad7686 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:The only way you pick a QB in the first round is if you project him to be a once in a decade QB. If you draft someone who is not, to play behind one of the worst O-line's in the league, it's just a waste of a pick. The kid will be so shellshocked, he'll be out of the league in 3 years.

You don't necessarily have to start him season 1.

Problem is we have a chance to draft an elite OT or take a qb with questions.

I think Shanahan and Allen take the "elite OT" - are you sure that Okung is rated that high?
What if Shanahan and Allen rate one of the QBs as having more upside for the franchise than the "elite OT"?
Also, we more than likely need TWO OT's out of this draft, if we even want to field a competitive team next year. Drafting a qb in the first round this draft guarantees a lack of competitiveness for next season, where if you solidify the line and maybe add a rb, wr, etc. the team might not be that bad.

I don't think that many here think we're going to be a competitive franchise that quickly - do you think we have a chance of having a decent offensive line and all the other pieces that mean we can be a decent group offensively, that quickly?

I think we will need 3 drafts and some pretty good FA acquisitions - we are going to see changes on both offense and defense - we are a franchise with very few players playing as a team - we need a lot of help - we might see a consistently competitive product on the field in 2 seasons - that means 2012, not next year - :lol:


Well with an O-line we could go 8-8, without, probly another 4-12. And its just going to stay like that every year we don't address the line. When Bradford can't move fast enough behind our lack of an o-line, and we have to draft another qb after he dies, thats another year we don't address the O-line. It's like a dance we've been doing ever since Samuels was drafted, which if we didn't have two first rounders I'm not even sure they would have taken him.


Drafting a couple of offensive linemen isn't going to get us to 8-8. People like to point to the offensive line and it is a problem. However, the problems on this team go far beyond just the offensive line. You look at our offensive and there is pretty much zero elite talent on that unit outside of Cooley. On defense we are likely going to have some issues if we do in fact switch to a 3-4 and the secondary is also a major concern. It's going to take 2-3 seasons for this team to get fixed.


Im gonna have to disagree there.
When your offensive line is so bad you cant pull off a pass you just dont know how good your receivers are. Take into account that JC has a slow delivery and it makes it even harder to know whether we have good receivers or not?

I would say unless we get an offensive line and maybe a qb who could deliever the ball to our wide outs? Then we just do not know what we have. Fred Davis has shown he can play in this league. At a high level in fact. Cooley is already a given.
Put Santana Moss on the Colts and he is a 1000 yard receiver in my opinion.
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Postby brad7686 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:22 am

SkinsJock wrote:
brad7686 wrote:Well with an O-line we could go 8-8, without, probably another 4-12. And it's just going to stay like that every year we don't address the line.

OK - we all know we need an offensive line that can be somewhat effective - why is it that you (and some others) are implying that we can have one or not? We all want a decent offensive line but most here understand that that not only takes players but also some time, like more than a year :roll:
You cannot go from having an offensive line like we did last year to having even a half way decent line ready to play this year.

When Bradford can't move fast enough behind our lack of an offensive line, and we have to draft another qb after he dies, that's another year we don't address the O-line. It's like a dance we've been doing ever since Samuels was drafted, which if we didn't have two first rounders I'm not even sure they would have taken him.


are you really serious - if we draft a QB do you think he's just going to be ineffective because the coaches are going to waste him?

do you think it's just draft a couple of guys and add some free agent offensive linemen here and bingo, come September, Campbell or whomever is behind center, is going to be OK?

WAKE UP - IT IS GOING TO BE THE 2012 SEASON before this franchise can put a competitive product on the field

Our best offensive lineman (D. Dockery) is not able to be a decent back-up offensive lineman on almost every team in the NFL :shock:

WE HAVE HUGE PROBLEMS AT ALMOST EVERY OFFENSIVE POSITION and some here think that will be "fixed" in a year or two - that just does not show any sense at all :lol:


Well a left tackle will help this team more than anything. And if you want a good, young one, usually it has to be in the first round of the draft. It's not like it would be impossible to add a RG and a RT as well. I'm pretty sure the giants drafted 3/5 or 4/5 of their O-line in one draft. I could be wrong about that. I'm just saying its possible to fix it. There are a lot of free agent guards.
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Postby PulpExposure » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:30 pm

brad7686 wrote:Well I'll just say there are no Dan Marino's in this draft and leave it at that.


Dan Marino was the 27th pick in that draft, behind such immortals as Todd Blackledge, Tony Eason, and Ken O'Brien. If anyone knew he'd end up as good as he did, he would have gone much, much higher.

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Postby Countertrey » Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:35 pm

You never know that there was a Dan Marino in the draft... until years later.


Unfortunately, sometimes it works the same way to find that you had a Heath Shuler, instead...
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Postby brad7686 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:03 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
brad7686 wrote:Well I'll just say there are no Dan Marino's in this draft and leave it at that.


Dan Marino was the 27th pick in that draft, behind such immortals as Todd Blackledge, Tony Eason, and Ken O'Brien. If anyone knew he'd end up as good as he did, he would have gone much, much higher.


That thought had occurred to me. I blame bad scouting. :lol:
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Postby SkinsJock » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:05 am

brad7686 wrote:Well a left tackle will help this team more than anything. And if you want a good, young one, usually it has to be in the first round of the draft. It's not like it would be impossible to add a RG and a RT as well. I'm pretty sure the giants drafted 3/5 or 4/5 of their O-line in one draft. I could be wrong about that. I'm just saying its possible to fix it. There are a lot of free agent guards.


I hope we pick an offensive lineman with the #4 pick and I hope he ends up being a really good lineman for this franchise for many years
I also hope that we find a way to get better at other positions on the line

the only difference is that some here think that this franchise could have a decent offensive line in a very short time
if we get very lucky with some draft picks and some FA acquisitions we will most likely have a decent line in September of 2012

I am really in favor of making this offensive line be effective against the NFC East defensive units - our best offensive lineman right now is Dockery and for this franchise to have a decent offensive line, IMO, Dockery would have a hard time being considered as a back-up let alone a decent back-up - we have a lot of work to do to have a really good offense and Dockery will not be here, even as a back-up, when we play on opening day of 2012 - if he is, then we have not done very much :shock:

I am in favor of using what picks we have in the draft this year and in 2011 and in 2012 - Hopefully even adding some draft picks as well and maybe some decent FA acquisitions to have an O line here that can play together effectively
at the same time and it will take some time - we need a really good QB - do you think we are picking in the top 10 in either the next draft or 2012 and if we use a pick on a QB in 2011 do you think he will be as good potentially as Bradford or Claussen? - let's understand that we are not trying to make this team great this year or next - that is not happening - we are trying to have a consistently competitive product at the begining of the 2012 season and we will need to continue to add to that product to remain consistently competitive - we have not been able to do that here because we have had no plan

we all understand the need for offensive linemen and how to go about adding players, but it seems to me most here are only thinking about the short term plan and not thinking about the other pieces that are needed (like the QB) and how is the best way to implement the plan to get an offense that can be consistently competitive here against the NFC East defenses
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

Hail to the Redskins

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