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Postby CanesSkins26 » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:11 am

Irn-Bru wrote:He's a $4 million dollar slot/4th receiver in 2009, if that's what we re-signed him to be. :|


It's a stupid decision on the part of the Skins. At that kind of money ARE will either be starting or be the third receiver. No way that he will be paid $4 million to be the 4th receiver. So essentially this means less playing time for either Kelly or Thomas next season.
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Postby VetSkinsFan » Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:22 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:He's a $4 million dollar slot/4th receiver in 2009, if that's what we re-signed him to be. :|


It's a stupid decision on the part of the Skins. At that kind of money ARE will either be starting or be the third receiver. No way that he will be paid $4 million to be the 4th receiver. So essentially this means less playing time for either Kelly or Thomas next season.


Isn't the slot the 3rd receiver?
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Postby SkinsFreak » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:10 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:He's a $4 million dollar slot/4th receiver in 2009, if that's what we re-signed him to be. :|


It's a stupid decision on the part of the Skins. At that kind of money ARE will either be starting or be the third receiver. No way that he will be paid $4 million to be the 4th receiver. So essentially this means less playing time for either Kelly or Thomas next season.


Isn't the slot the 3rd receiver?


In a WCO, they rotate WR's in and out quite frequently and also move them around the formation all the time. At the moment, we have four WR's, not including Thrash. So whether they dub him the 2nd, 3rd, 4th or slot receiver is almost irrelevant, he'll be moved around as they did last year. If many here are concerned about the development of Thomas and Kelly, having Moss as the only other WR with any experience might be leaving the team a little thin.

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Postby SkinsFreak » Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:50 am

Irn-Bru wrote:He's a $4 million dollar slot/4th receiver in 2009, if that's what we re-signed him to be. :|


Actually, he WAS the $4 million dollar receiver. He's now the $1.5 million dollar receiver. :)

Carter's new deal saves the team about $2.4 million in 2009, and lowers his case salary from $2 million to $1.5 million. Randle El's new deal saves $2 million in cap space for next season, and lowers his base salary from $4 million to $1.5 million according to sources.

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Postby PulpExposure » Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:36 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:He's a $4 million dollar slot/4th receiver in 2009, if that's what we re-signed him to be. :|


Actually, he WAS the $4 million dollar receiver. He's now the $1.5 million dollar receiver. :)

Carter's new deal saves the team about $2.4 million in 2009, and lowers his case salary from $2 million to $1.5 million. Randle El's new deal saves $2 million in cap space for next season, and lowers his base salary from $4 million to $1.5 million according to sources.


Not quite.

both cases, the players will pocket in raw cash terms exactly what they would have in 2009 under their previous deals ($4.5 million for Carter - including his old roster bonus - and $4 million for Randle El). Only now most of it comes in the form of upfront, guaranteed money, via new signing bonuses.

<snip>

The Randle El contract is virtually identical in theory.

As part of his new deal he got a $2.5 million signing bonus,


1.5 salary +2.5 signing bonus = one 4 million dollar slot receiver

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Postby VetSkinsFan » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:52 pm

SkinsFreak wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:He's a $4 million dollar slot/4th receiver in 2009, if that's what we re-signed him to be. :|


It's a stupid decision on the part of the Skins. At that kind of money ARE will either be starting or be the third receiver. No way that he will be paid $4 million to be the 4th receiver. So essentially this means less playing time for either Kelly or Thomas next season.


Isn't the slot the 3rd receiver?


In a WCO, they rotate WR's in and out quite frequently and also move them around the formation all the time. At the moment, we have four WR's, not including Thrash. So whether they dub him the 2nd, 3rd, 4th or slot receiver is almost irrelevant, he'll be moved around as they did last year. If many here are concerned about the development of Thomas and Kelly, having Moss as the only other WR with any experience might be leaving the team a little thin.


There is stilla depth chart of receivers. You may give receivers a play off here and here, but you have your starters, and either packages that work towards a receiver's specific strength or receiver depth chart.
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Postby Deadskins » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:41 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:He's a $4 million dollar slot/4th receiver in 2009, if that's what we re-signed him to be. :|

No. His base is $1.5 after the deal. Not sure what the prorated bonus is though.
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Postby Deadskins » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:44 pm

PulpExposure wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:He's a $4 million dollar slot/4th receiver in 2009, if that's what we re-signed him to be. :|


Actually, he WAS the $4 million dollar receiver. He's now the $1.5 million dollar receiver. :)

Carter's new deal saves the team about $2.4 million in 2009, and lowers his case salary from $2 million to $1.5 million. Randle El's new deal saves $2 million in cap space for next season, and lowers his base salary from $4 million to $1.5 million according to sources.


Not quite.

both cases, the players will pocket in raw cash terms exactly what they would have in 2009 under their previous deals ($4.5 million for Carter - including his old roster bonus - and $4 million for Randle El). Only now most of it comes in the form of upfront, guaranteed money, via new signing bonuses.

<snip>

The Randle El contract is virtually identical in theory.

As part of his new deal he got a $2.5 million signing bonus,


1.5 salary +2.5 signing bonus = one 4 million dollar slot receiver

No, the bonus is prorated over the life of the contract, so it's more like $1.9 mil this season.
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Postby PulpExposure » Fri Feb 13, 2009 7:51 pm

Deadskins wrote:
PulpExposure wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:He's a $4 million dollar slot/4th receiver in 2009, if that's what we re-signed him to be. :|


Actually, he WAS the $4 million dollar receiver. He's now the $1.5 million dollar receiver. :)

Carter's new deal saves the team about $2.4 million in 2009, and lowers his case salary from $2 million to $1.5 million. Randle El's new deal saves $2 million in cap space for next season, and lowers his base salary from $4 million to $1.5 million according to sources.


Not quite.

both cases, the players will pocket in raw cash terms exactly what they would have in 2009 under their previous deals ($4.5 million for Carter - including his old roster bonus - and $4 million for Randle El). Only now most of it comes in the form of upfront, guaranteed money, via new signing bonuses.

<snip>

The Randle El contract is virtually identical in theory.

As part of his new deal he got a $2.5 million signing bonus,


1.5 salary +2.5 signing bonus = one 4 million dollar slot receiver

No, the bonus is prorated over the life of the contract, so it's more like $1.9 mil this season.


You didn't read the original comment. We weren't talking salcap, just compensation.

He's a $4 million dollar slot/4th receiver in 2009


ARE is getting 4 million to play slot receiver in 2009. That's incontrovertible.

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Postby DarthMonk » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:00 am

Close to 2 years ago in the off-season, I suggested we BLOW IT UP. Now not everything below is completely relevant or even correct but I was curious. It appears most everyone mentioned in the BLOW UP thread is gone anyway. Portis hasn't played in weeks, Raubach steps on McNabb's foot every other play (anyone think we could have drafted an adequate replacement?), and Daniels is seeing spot duty (like him though). Just think, we mighta sucked for a year (did anyway and actually might not have), and with more picks mighta gotten a guy like Bradford (or someone like him next year) with all the picks we dont (and won't) have.

Sure am jealous of all the picks the PATS have. And they be startin' rookies, 2nd, and 3rd year guys practically everywhere.

Comments?

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DarthMonk wrote:Below is the post that laid out cap implications. It's great info. Let's assume they are good data. 2 things:

1) All the cap hits just last one year. Massive cap room results in 1 year.

2) We have yet to discuss compensatory picks.

"Under the NFL's collective bargaining agreement, teams that lose more or better "compensatory" free agents than they acquire in a year are eligible to receive compensatory draft choices. No team can receive more than four."

Now although it looks painful (and may be) if we let go of say Jansen, Portis, Taylor, and Washington we save a net of 3 million immediately and are well on our way to 4 compensatory picks as well as a quick extra 23 million in cap space a year down the road. Three of those players (Jansen, Taylor, Washington) figure to not really help us next year (based on age and the last couple of years) and Portis (already locker room poison?) can be replaced. He's not Jim Brown and even Brown was probably replaceable to a certain extent by Bobby Mitchell (ask Welch).

I say get rid of these guys and a few more (Springs and Daniels?) and get

1) 13 million of immediate relief

2) 30 million in space in 1 year

3) 4 more draft picks

4) younger

We might even get better immediately and certainly will long term - especially if we finish the blow up in one more year.

Cooley is an example of what we want to do. Draft wisely and pay a homegrown star. He's a keeper.

We should mostly let the remaining linemen play out their contracts and draft replacements. My personal favorite for the #13 is Alex Mack, a center. Most mock drafts put him around #20 so a trade down while getting an extra pick along with Mack could be a possibility. He is generally thought of as a potential all-pro and many say "the best lineman in the draft, period." Check this out:

http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2009_NFL_Draft/Alex_Mack.htm

DarthMonk

dad23hogjrs wrote:Blow it up?

Sure, here are some guys that would be a part of the "destruction"

ARE - moving him would increase our # against the cap 600k, we are already 3-4 M over, depending on where you get your info

Jansen - I've seen people coming for his head...great, that will cost you 2.78 million against the cap

Portis - YEAH, LETS GET CRAZY...crazy will cost you 7.7 M against the cap

Some other guys that not everyone is pointing pitch forks at, but would fit into blowing it up...

R. Thomas - costs you 4.5 M to move him; Moss - 464k against the cap to move; everyone on the "Trade Rogers" bandwagon - check this out - 1.43 M against the cap to pull that trigger

and my personal favorite:
"Trade cooley for a #2 OR 3" - that will cost you 8.1 M against the cap

We found a gem....so now you want to trade him so we can maybe do it again...but most likely not...makes sense.


You can't "Blow it Up" completely

why? because we laced the place with plutonium...


guys you can get rid of - more of a wittling

Springs - Saves 6M
Taylor - Saves 8.5M
M. Washington - Saves 4.5M
Griffin - Saves 3.62M
Rabach - Saves 2.35M
Daniels - Saves 2.3M

Sorry to say, everyone else costs you against the cap, or is worth more than what they save you against the cap.
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Postby DarthMonk » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:03 am

Sorry! Meant for GM forum!

Can staff move?

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Postby Countertrey » Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:15 am

DarthMonk wrote:Sorry! Meant for GM forum!

Can staff move?

DarthMonk


done...

However, I'm still wondering what your point is... if you wait long enough, everything turns over.
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Postby Deadskins » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:49 am

I think the point is, had we blown it up as he suggested, we would now be past the rough years (which were rough anyway) and be a younger, leaner, meaner team with a lot more draft picks. Actually, this being a capless year was the perfect time to blow it up.
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Postby DarthMonk » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:30 pm

Deadskins wrote:I think the point is, had we blown it up as he suggested, we would now be past the rough years (which were rough anyway) and be a younger, leaner, meaner team with a lot more draft picks. Actually, this being a capless year was the perfect time to blow it up.


PERFECTLY SUMMARIZED. We just don't have a game this week and I feel like we've been treading water for about 10 years now.

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Postby 1niksder » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:54 am

Deadskins wrote:I think the point is, had we blown it up as he suggested, we would now be past the rough years (which were rough anyway) and be a younger, leaner, meaner team with a lot more draft picks. Actually, this being a capless year was the perfect time to blow it up.

The team had a regime change so plans changed. Not sure what the plan was when Zorn was here in the first year of the blow up, I'm not sure that Jim knew what the plan was considering Vinny was calling the shots, and MS won't tell anyone his plans.

That being said there are only 22 guys on the 2010 roster that was on the 2008 roster.

Most of them are performing well in 2010 and aren't that old...


Andre Carter
Carlos Rogers
Casey Rabach
Chris Cooley
Chris Horton
Chris Wilson
Clinton Portis
DeAngelo Hall
Fred Davis
H.B. Blades
Kareem Moore
Kedric Golston
LaRon Landry
London Fletcher
Lorenzo Alexander
Mike Sellers
Phillip Daniels
Reed Doughty
Rocky McIntosh
Santana Moss
Stephon Heyer
Malcolm Kelly is on IR

Almost half of them are Redskins draft picks

They kind of - sort of are doing what I had in mind back then
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