Atheism?

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Atheism?

Postby Deadskins » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:49 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:I am Atheist #truestory

How do you explain everything that is? #truequestion


I don't have to explain anything

Well, not if you have no intellectual curiosity. :roll:


Intellectual curiosity?

I think blindly following stories in the greatest fictional novel ever written is not exactly intelligent.

Note: The bible is the most shoplifted book of all time.

Who said anything about the Bible? I'm talking about the existence of God. The greatest scientists the world has ever known have almost all, uniformly, believed in the existence of God. I was just wondering how an atheist believes everything was created, if not by a supreme being.
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Re: Atheism?

Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:03 pm

Side note: thank you for splitting this thread, Deadskins.

Deadskins wrote:The greatest scientists the world has ever known have almost all, uniformly, believed in the existence of God.


Is that really true? It certainly hasn't been true of the 20th and 21st centuries. But perhaps you mean that there are only a few of those who would be counted among "the greatest scientists the world has ever known," and the rest of that group have nearly uniformly believed in God. Therefore recent atheist scientists would be the exception to the historical rule.

But even this is problematic. There were a large number of atheists in the ancient world, for example, and a lot of them were the people most advancing science. And since the Enlightenment I'd wager that the greatest scientists were at least, say, 50/50 on theism.

But even if the ratio was more like 80/20, your claim here would have some problems.

Hmm.
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Postby Deadskins » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:40 pm

Albert Einstein wrote:God does not play dice with the universe.

Stephen Hawking wrote:So Einstein was wrong when he said, "God does not play dice." Consideration of black holes suggests, not only that God does play dice, but that he sometimes confuses us by throwing them where they can't be seen.

However, if we discover a complete theory, it should in time be understandable by everyone, not just by a few scientists. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists and just ordinary people, be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God.

Isaac Newton wrote:Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who sets the planets in motion.

Nikola Tesla wrote:The gift of mental power comes from God, Divine Being, and if we concentrate our minds on that truth, we become in tune with this great power. My Mother had taught me to seek all truth in the Bible.

Galileo Galilei wrote:I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’

Perhaps it would be easier for you to demonstrate some great scientists who are/were atheists.
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Postby andyjens89 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:56 pm

Deadskins wrote:Perhaps it would be easier for you to demonstrate some great scientists who are/were atheists.


Sagan (pantheist), Hawking... I don't know. I'm not an atheist (far from it, actually) but those names came off the top of my head pretty quickly

Here's a big ass list
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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:41 pm

Hawking is an atheist. For a while he played the good agnostic, saying we can't really know one way or the other (e.g., in his Universe in a Nutshell), but since then he's become more bold in asserting that we don't have any good reason to think God exists (e.g., his most recent book on M-theory).

In addition to andyjens's list, there's this YouTube video, which includes a large number of very important scientists. (It also makes the fallacious inference that the greater one's intelligence, the more likely one will be an atheist.)
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Postby Deadskins » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:46 pm

Sagan never denied the existence of God, he just never saw empirical evidence to support it. But he was intellectually curious about the subject, which I don't believe ATX is, and was the reason I started this spin-off thread.
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Postby Deadskins » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:52 pm

There is also a big difference in being an atheist, and rejecting religious dogma. I'm not convinced that all the scientists listed on the wiki page are atheists, so much as can't define God using the scientific method.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:58 pm

Deadskins wrote:There is also a big difference in being an atheist, and rejecting religious dogma.

I agree. In fact I think that might be the most common error that atheists make in attacking theism. On the one hand, they talk about how there's no reason to think God exists. But on the other, if one brings up the classical arguments for the existence of God, they will shift to talking about the Bible or the way extremist Muslims act or some other thing that's entirely irrelevant to the question of whether there is a God at all. (Hitchens and Sam Harris make their living off this move.)


I'm not convinced that all the scientists listed on the wiki page are atheists, so much as can't define God using the scientific method.

Well, perhaps that's the case. Let's say this is true: wouldn't you still have to adjust your original claim that almost all the greatest scientists uniformly believe in the existence of God?
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Postby Deadskins » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:23 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
Deadskins wrote:There is also a big difference in being an atheist, and rejecting religious dogma.

I agree. In fact I think that might be the most common error that atheists make in attacking theism. On the one hand, they talk about how there's no reason to think God exists. But on the other, if one brings up the classical arguments for the existence of God, they will shift to talking about the Bible or the way extremist Muslims act or some other thing that's entirely irrelevant to the question of whether there is a God at all. (Hitchens and Sam Harris make their living off this move.)


I'm not convinced that all the scientists listed on the wiki page are atheists, so much as can't define God using the scientific method.

Well, perhaps that's the case. Let's say this is true: wouldn't you still have to adjust your original claim that almost all the greatest scientists uniformly believe in the existence of God?

I suppose, but when making that claim, I was thinking about those names I could come up with off the top of my head as "greatest scientists," not really thinking about great scientists in general. Perhaps I should have said famously great.
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Postby ATX_Skins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:17 am

Albert Einstein was an Atheist.
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Postby ATX_Skins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:47 am

Deadskins wrote:Sagan never denied the existence of God, he just never saw empirical evidence to support it. But he was intellectually curious about the subject, which I don't believe ATX is, and was the reason I started this spin-off thread.


I'm actually glad you brought this up in it's own thread.

To just throw it out there for you no. You are right, I don't believe in anything. I have always been curious about religion though, but not like you are thinking. I have always wondered how people can be so naive as to worship, invest, kill or do good "in the name of God".

As an Atheist I feel it is important to educate myself on many religions. I have lived all over the world so I am fortunate to experience so many different views. Enough to know, it's not and will never be for me. Technically I decided religion was not for me when I was 11, or 12 I can't really remember.
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Postby Deadskins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:12 am

ATX_Skins wrote:Albert Einstein was an Atheist.

Um, no, he wasn't.
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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:16 am

ATX_Skins wrote:To just throw it out there for you no. You are right, I don't believe in anything. I have always been curious about religion though, but not like you are thinking. I have always wondered how people can be so naive as to worship, invest, kill or do good "in the name of God".

As an Atheist I feel it is important to educate myself on many religions. I have lived all over the world so I am fortunate to experience so many different views. Enough to know, it's not and will never be for me. Technically I decided religion was not for me when I was 11, or 12 I can't really remember.


To Irn-Bru's earlier point, you're confusing religion with God
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Postby Deadskins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:20 am

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:To just throw it out there for you no. You are right, I don't believe in anything. I have always been curious about religion though, but not like you are thinking. I have always wondered how people can be so naive as to worship, invest, kill or do good "in the name of God".

As an Atheist I feel it is important to educate myself on many religions. I have lived all over the world so I am fortunate to experience so many different views. Enough to know, it's not and will never be for me. Technically I decided religion was not for me when I was 11, or 12 I can't really remember.


To Irn-Bru's earlier point, you're confusing religion with God

Exactly.
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Postby ATX_Skins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:20 am

Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:Albert Einstein was an Atheist.

Um, no, he wasn't.


It's technical, but he never believed in a personal God.
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