Atheism?

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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:04 pm

cvillehog wrote:Wait, is it still the bye week? I thought there was a game in a few days? If there was a God, certainly he would make it so we wouldn't be talking about this right now! :)


It's the team that's practicing, we're still in a two week gap between games
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Postby ATX_Skins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:28 pm

Support the troops, especially our snipers.

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Postby Irn-Bru » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:49 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:Albert Einstein was an Atheist.

Um, no, he wasn't.


It's technical, but he never believed in a personal God.


So what? That's another conflation of God with religion — one of several in this thread.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:51 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:I have some free time today so if anyone would like to defend religion, by all means I would love to hear what you have to say.


What are people supposed to be defending religion against? I haven't seen any criticisms of it . . . just a guy looking up at the clouds and saying he lives by reality. Not exactly heavy-hitting material there. ;)
"Last year I thought we'd win it all. This year I know we will." - Rex Ryan, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Jets

"Dream team." - Vince Young, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Eagles

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Postby ATX_Skins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:14 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:I have some free time today so if anyone would like to defend religion, by all means I would love to hear what you have to say.


What are people supposed to be defending religion against? I haven't seen any criticisms of it . . . just a guy looking up at the clouds and saying he lives by reality. Not exactly heavy-hitting material there. ;)


I didn't make the thread, not sure why I should have to do the heavy hitting...
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Postby ATX_Skins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:17 pm

It's funny to me that when an Atheist walks in the room nobody is religious anymore. I am not talking about God anymore. I am talking about religion.

Interesting that some people I have a feeling are hiding their faith behind the term "God".

I cannot argue there is no God, I can argue that anyone's religion is utter crap though.

The origins of this thread were in regards to one of the members becoming a born again Christian and having Jesus Christ in his life. Lets stick to religion then shall we.
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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:35 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:It's funny to me that when an Atheist walks in the room nobody is religious anymore. I am not talking about God anymore. I am talking about religion.

Interesting that some people I have a feeling are hiding their faith behind the term "God".

I cannot argue there is no God, I can argue that anyone's religion is utter crap though.

The origins of this thread were in regards to one of the members becoming a born again Christian and having Jesus Christ in his life. Lets stick to religion then shall we.


We need a dancing emoticon...
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Postby ATX_Skins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:38 pm

Kaz, you are not funny.
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Postby Deadskins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:01 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:I have some free time today so if anyone would like to defend religion, by all means I would love to hear what you have to say.


What are people supposed to be defending religion against? I haven't seen any criticisms of it . . . just a guy looking up at the clouds and saying he lives by reality. Not exactly heavy-hitting material there. ;)


I didn't make the thread, not sure why I should have to do the heavy hitting...

Well, I started it, but it was based on a comment you made in another thread. So, in a way, you did make the thread, or at least made it possible.

ATX_Skins wrote:It's funny to me that when an Atheist walks in the room nobody is religious anymore. I am not talking about God anymore. I am talking about religion.

Interesting that some people I have a feeling are hiding their faith behind the term "God".

I cannot argue there is no God, I can argue that anyone's religion is utter crap though.

The origins of this thread were in regards to one of the members becoming a born again Christian and having Jesus Christ in his life. Lets stick to religion then shall we.

I consider myself religious. I am a Christian, not born again, but a Christian no less. I believe that Jesus was the messiah, and he died so that I, and the rest of the world might be saved. I don't proselytize or try to impose my beliefs on anyone else, but I would never deny my beliefs out of embarrassment or concern for some sort of negative retribution, especially on a message board. I often pray that God will reveal Himself to those that don't know His love the way I do. So if you want to try and belittle me for my beliefs, go for it. It won't affect me, because, as I said before, I have personal proof there is a God, and I have a very good relationship with Him. Nothing you can say will change that.
Last edited by Deadskins on Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cvillehog » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:02 pm

So, people were asking for proof against God. Here's one such "proof" (in the philosophical sense) from way back in the day. Presented here not because I feel one way or another about it (or about Epicurus himself), but because I knew it existed and no one else brought it up. Plus, I like thought experiments.

Epicurus, 2nd Century BCE wrote:Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot.
Or he can, but does not want to.
Or he cannot, and does not want to.

If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent.
If he can, but does not want to, then he is wicked.
If he neither can, nor wants to, he is both powerless and wicked.

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Postby Deadskins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:10 pm

cvillehog wrote:So, people were asking for proof against God. Here's one such "proof" (in the philosophical sense) from way back in the day. Presented here not because I feel one way or another about it (or about Epicurus himself), but because I knew it existed and no one else brought it up. Plus, I like thought experiments.

Epicurus, 2nd Century BCE wrote:Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot.
Or he can, but does not want to.
Or he cannot, and does not want to.

If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent.
If he can, but does not want to, then he is wicked.
If he neither can, nor wants to, he is both powerless and wicked.

That is a specious argument, as being "wicked" is not the only possible reason for not wanting to "abolish evil."
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Postby ATX_Skins » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:15 pm

Deadskins wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
ATX_Skins wrote:I have some free time today so if anyone would like to defend religion, by all means I would love to hear what you have to say.


What are people supposed to be defending religion against? I haven't seen any criticisms of it . . . just a guy looking up at the clouds and saying he lives by reality. Not exactly heavy-hitting material there. ;)


I didn't make the thread, not sure why I should have to do the heavy hitting...

Well, I started it, but it was based on a comment you made in another thread. So, in a way, you did make the thread, or at least made it possible.

ATX_Skins wrote:It's funny to me that when an Atheist walks in the room nobody is religious anymore. I am not talking about God anymore. I am talking about religion.

Interesting that some people I have a feeling are hiding their faith behind the term "God".

I cannot argue there is no God, I can argue that anyone's religion is utter crap though.

The origins of this thread were in regards to one of the members becoming a born again Christian and having Jesus Christ in his life. Lets stick to religion then shall we.

I consider myself religious. I am a Christian, not born again, but a Christian no less. I believe that Jesus was the messiah, and he died so that I, and the rest of the world might be saved. I don't proselytize or try to impose my beliefs on anyone else, but I would never deny my beliefs out of embarrassment or concern for some sort of negative retribution, especially on a message board. I often pray that God will reveal Himself to those that don't know His love the way I do. So if you want to try and belittle me for my beliefs, go for it. It won't affect me, because, as I said before, I have personal proof there is a God, and I have a very good relationship with Him. Nothing you can say will change that.


Why do you feel as though the world needs to be saved. Don't you think Christianity has done enough damage already?
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Postby cvillehog » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:16 pm

Deadskins wrote:
cvillehog wrote:So, people were asking for proof against God. Here's one such "proof" (in the philosophical sense) from way back in the day. Presented here not because I feel one way or another about it (or about Epicurus himself), but because I knew it existed and no one else brought it up. Plus, I like thought experiments.

Epicurus, 2nd Century BCE wrote:Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot.
Or he can, but does not want to.
Or he cannot, and does not want to.

If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent.
If he can, but does not want to, then he is wicked.
If he neither can, nor wants to, he is both powerless and wicked.

That is a specious argument, as being "wicked" is not the only possible reason for not wanting to "abolish evil."


So, as a thought experiment, replace "abolish evil" above with something else and see if you reach all the same conclusions.

EDIT: By the way, I should have mentioned that Epicurus is only addressing omnipotence and omnibenevolence here, not ominpresence or omniscience.
Last edited by cvillehog on Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:24 pm

cvillehog wrote:So, people were asking for proof against God. Here's one such "proof" (in the philosophical sense) from way back in the day. Presented here not because I feel one way or another about it (or about Epicurus himself), but because I knew it existed and no one else brought it up. Plus, I like thought experiments.

Epicurus, 2nd Century BCE wrote:Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot.
Or he can, but does not want to.
Or he cannot, and does not want to.

If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent.
If he can, but does not want to, then he is wicked.
If he neither can, nor wants to, he is both powerless and wicked.


Why don't teachers give students the answers to tests? Every student could get 100% on every test and make their parents happy and go on to get PhD's. Is it because they are wicked? Or is it not that simple?
Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him

Proverb: Failure is not falling down. Failure is not getting up again

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way

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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:26 pm

ATX_Skins wrote:Kaz, you are not funny.


Re-read the thread, my friend. You are funny. And I never take the word of someone who's being made sport of that it wasn't funny...
Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him

Proverb: Failure is not falling down. Failure is not getting up again

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way

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