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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12771
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Check out this newest mock, I would be pumped |
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| Deadskins wrote: | | Countertrey wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | Countertrey wrote: | | The point still stands. If the Browns want RG III, there is not a thing we can do about it. They will have him. |
I disagree. All we would have to do is trade above them. You may not want to pay what it takes to do that, but it's certainly possible. |
The Browns have much more ammunition than we do... If they want to move to 2, they have the 4 and 22 picks. If they want Griffin, they can outbid us without even breathing hard. Period.
I suspect they don't want him that bad... McCoy is not a lost cause, and they could use the talent those picks represent in other positions... But, that's not the discussion. If they want him... we can't stop them. |
Sure we could. We could offer our #1 for the next ten years. Obviously we won't, but you still can't say it's impossible to outbid them. |
I thought this was a debate... not a psychosis...
The bottom line remains... if the Browns want RGIII... they will have him. Mike Ditka is not our GM. |
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Deadskins
JSPB22
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 14724
Location: Location, LOCATION!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Check out this newest mock, I would be pumped |
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| Countertrey wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | Countertrey wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | Countertrey wrote: | | The point still stands. If the Browns want RG III, there is not a thing we can do about it. They will have him. |
I disagree. All we would have to do is trade above them. You may not want to pay what it takes to do that, but it's certainly possible. |
The Browns have much more ammunition than we do... If they want to move to 2, they have the 4 and 22 picks. If they want Griffin, they can outbid us without even breathing hard. Period.
I suspect they don't want him that bad... McCoy is not a lost cause, and they could use the talent those picks represent in other positions... But, that's not the discussion. If they want him... we can't stop them. |
Sure we could. We could offer our #1 for the next ten years. Obviously we won't, but you still can't say it's impossible to outbid them. |
I thought this was a debate... not a psychosis...
The bottom line remains... if the Browns want RGIII... they will have him. Mike Ditka is not our GM. |
No, but like I said, we can outbid the Browns if we really want to. I don't buy this "If the Browns want him, we can't do anything about it" line. But, in the end, I don't think the Browns are going to move on RGIII. If he falls to them at #4, they would probably take him, but I think they will stick with McCoy and target Blackmon with that pick. They will probably pick up a FA QB for the time being. |
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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12771
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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If I want a Ferrari, there are ways that I can do it.
That doesn't mean that I'm wrong if I say I can't do it. This "We could offer our next 20 #1's" is a ludicrous position. We will not win a bidding war with the Browns. The price of 2 #1's this year beats a #1 this year and a #1 next year. That, plus change, will be the extent of the bidding. As I said... the insane are not involved in this process any longer. If the Browns desire for RG3 is equal to ours, they win. |
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Deadskins
JSPB22
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 14724
Location: Location, LOCATION!
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Countertrey wrote: | | The price of 2 #1's this year beats a #1 this year and a #1 next year. |
I'm not so sure about that. |
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DarthMonk
DarthMonk
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3210
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| Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Deadskins wrote: | | Countertrey wrote: | | The price of 2 #1's this year beats a #1 this year and a #1 next year. |
I'm not so sure about that. |
According to the value chart Cleveland's two #1s (#4 & #22) are worth 1800+780=2580 while our #1 this year (#6) is worth 1600 meaning we'd need to add 980 in value to be giving a better offer. For our first piok next year to be worth more than 980 we need to draft #16 or better.
It's probably a wash.
Actually, Cleveland's #1s don't quite equal the value of the #2 overall pick which is 2600 while our two #1s are that good or better if we pick in the top 16 next year. Thus, we'd both probably have to sweeten the pot anyway.
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| DarthMonk wrote: | | Deadskins wrote: | | Countertrey wrote: | | The price of 2 #1's this year beats a #1 this year and a #1 next year. |
I'm not so sure about that. |
According to the value chart Cleveland's two #1s (#4 & #22) are worth 1800+780=2580 while our #1 this year (#6) is worth 1600 meaning we'd need to add 980 in value to be giving a better offer. For our first piok next year to be worth more than 980 we need to draft #16 or better.
It's probably a wash.
Actually, Cleveland's #1s don't quite equal the value of the #2 overall pick which is 2600 while our two #1s are that good or better if we pick in the top 16 next year. Thus, we'd both probably have to sweeten the pot anyway.
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Next year's first would be slotted in the same position as this year's first (#6), but it loses a round in value so it's only worth 520 pts.
First Second and next year's first = 2630 pts |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11522
Location: New England
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| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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I really think that St Louis is going to trade that # 2 pick to help build their team
IF Cleveland wants RGIII they get him
Our only chance is that the Browns want someone else
we will have to give up a minimum of 2 #1 picks and a 2nd rounder this year - MINIMUM |
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HEROHAMO
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 4027
Location: SANTA ANA,CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Oh how I wish this scenerio would play out. However I just don't see how Cleveland could pass on Griffin? Seriously why would they draft Richardson when they have a premier back already?
Holmgren is no dummy. He will take Griffin if he is there. Our only chance is to move ahead of Cleveland. If we dont move up to no. 2 Griffin lands in Cleveland.
I just feel this is the year to grab our franchise QB. If we have to I say give up our 1st , 2nd , third this year and if we must the next two 1st round picks for the following years. I just dont think we can let this opportunity pass us by. |
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KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 10021
Location: Kazmania
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Check out this newest mock, I would be pumped |
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| Deadskins wrote: | | No, but like I said, we can outbid the Browns if we really want to. I don't buy this "If the Browns want him, we can't do anything about it" line |
Seriously? You don't get it? Um...OK...I'll explain the obvious.
1) People like cash on the barrel head. A #1 pick this year is better then a #1 pick next year.
2) People like the known. If they take Cleveland's 2 #1 picks this year, they know where they are picking. If they take a pick next year, they don't know where the pick will be.
So, to top Cleveland we would have to offer more to both make up for the "credit" (#1 next year) as well as the unknown (not knowing where they pick). That becomes an absurd amount to pay. I mean duh. You really require the lawyer qualifications of "for an amount that is remotely realistic to pay?" It's obviously that's what it means, I don't see why that's required on a message board. |
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KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 10021
Location: Kazmania
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| Deadskins wrote: | | Countertrey wrote: | | The price of 2 #1's this year beats a #1 this year and a #1 next year. |
I'm not so sure about that. |
eventually, ex-post, you could be right. But trades are made ex-ante, and ex-ante the statement is undeniably true |
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riggofan
Hog
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 2949
Location: Montclair, Virginia
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| HEROHAMO wrote: | Oh how I wish this scenerio would play out. However I just don't see how Cleveland could pass on Griffin? Seriously why would they draft Richardson when they have a premier back already?
Holmgren is no dummy. He will take Griffin if he is there. Our only chance is to move ahead of Cleveland. If we dont move up to no. 2 Griffin lands in Cleveland. |
I agree with you, they'll grab RGIII if he falls to #4. I'm just not as sold that the Browns will actually make a trade to move up to #2. Two first round picks this year to move up just two spots is really steep, and they are a team that could use both of those picks. |
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KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 10021
Location: Kazmania
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| Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| riggofan wrote: | | HEROHAMO wrote: | Oh how I wish this scenerio would play out. However I just don't see how Cleveland could pass on Griffin? Seriously why would they draft Richardson when they have a premier back already?
Holmgren is no dummy. He will take Griffin if he is there. Our only chance is to move ahead of Cleveland. If we dont move up to no. 2 Griffin lands in Cleveland. |
I agree with you, they'll grab RGIII if he falls to #4. I'm just not as sold that the Browns will actually make a trade to move up to #2. Two first round picks this year to move up just two spots is really steep, and they are a team that could use both of those picks. |
I agree. I think most people are arguing though:
- If - Cleveland wants Griffin, no one will top them because they can get him for the 2 #1's. No one can (Deadskins should insert the word "realistically" here, to everyone else it's obvious) outbid them so they will get him.
If they don't, the Skins are in play, but a lot of other teams need what is widely considered a top QB prospect and will be willing to give up a lot to get him too.
He is very unlikely to go to Cleveland at #4 and isn't going to fall to us unless everyone is playing up rating him higher then they do as a complete fabrication. So I don't think people are arguing Cleveland "will" make the trade for the two #1's, just that if they do, they will win.
That is assuming the Rams aren't keeping Griffin. It seems unlikely, but they could trade Bradford if they are that sold on Griffin. Or another complete wildcard would be if the Colts decide Griffin is better then Luck. Again unlikely, but there are a lot of possibilities still. |
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