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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11515
Location: New England
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| riggofan wrote: | | .. Fortunately for everyone your paranoia is massively misguided. |
 "paranoid" and "massively misguided" = I think you've mistaken me for someone that gives a rat's ass
I have faith in this FO handling this
.. besides .. from all accounts this is just a pain in the butt - we are going to be fine no matter what the arbitrator rules
I don't expect anything - I'm certainly not paranoid about it and am not going to let myself be massively misguided  |
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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3875
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| 1niksder wrote: | | skinsfan#33 wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | My understanding is ....They need to have it prior to the draft, but the thing is with the way rookies are slotted now, they'll only need about $5M to cover the picks. Once they are drafted and signed the rule of 51 kicks back in.
Prior to the draft it's Rule of 51 + rookie pool.
This is a good explanation of how it is set up |
1Nik,
I read the whole thing and it never said anything about having to have the rookie pool cap space available at the begining of the draft. I did find a part really interesting:
| Quote: | "By way of example, in 2011, let’s assume that a Team X had a rookie pool of $4.578M for their 8 draft picks. This is the team’s “rookie salary pool” and is based on the number of the team’s draft picks and where those picks were drafted.
However this doesn’t mean that Team X needed $4.578M in Cap space in order to fit their rookies under the overall Salary Cap." |
In fact it led me to believe that you really don't know what your rookie cap pool could be until after you make all of your draft selections and you may not need that entire amount of cap space until opening day. |
Again the salaries are slotted and structured....
7 draft picks at $390k per = $2,730,000 for base salaries....
Bonus money =$4,110,000
Pick #2 - $14.5M or $3,625,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #69 - $700K or $175,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #102 - $460K or $115,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #109 - $452K or $113,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #141 - $172K or $43,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #173 - $96K or $24,000 on 2012 Cap
Pick #213 - $60K or $15,000 on 2012 Cap
Total $6.8M |
This doesn't jive with what the article said. They said that the base salaries essentially don't count until opening day because they are usually below the top 51. The only thing that counts is the prorated portion of the bonus.
And again the Skin may only make one draft pick this year (highly doubtful - but ask mike ditka about ricki williams). So it doesn't seam correct that they will need all 6.5M in cap space. But if I read the article is right they would only need the $4.1M to cover bonuses. |
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DarthMonk
DarthMonk
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3206
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| The Hogster wrote: | Beck, Doughty & Gaffney = gone.
Restructure Hall |
+1
DarthMonk |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| skinsfan#33 wrote: |
This doesn't jive with what the article said. They said that the base salaries essentially don't count until opening day because they are usually below the top 51. The only thing that counts is the prorated portion of the bonus.
And again the Skin may only make one draft pick this year (highly doubtful - but ask mike ditka about ricki williams). So it doesn't seam correct that they will need all 6.5M in cap space. But if I read the article is right they would only need the $4.1M to cover bonuses. |
Base Salaries don't count until the start of the league year but the league year started on March 13th. The Rule of 51 considers the overall cap hit a player's contract totals (which includes base salary, prorated signing bonuses and other bonuses paid) that year.
The Rookie Pool is the money needed to sign all of the teams picks. It's set by some formula with a min and a max, again see last season's draft. It was the first year of the rookie pool, it's really a rookie cap that didn't take into consideration that a team would take 6 picks and turn them into 12 selections. The pool amount wasn't adjusted.
Yes all of the picks prorated bonus for 2012 will count against the cap but so will some of the picks base salaries.
If they only draft one player it will be at the #69 spot, but his base salary + pro-rated SB would be high enough to move the player up to about number 40 under the rule of 51. Both of the teams 4th round picks will be paid enough to be in the top 45 under the rule of 51. At the same time guys like M White, C Neild, Willie Smith, and Mo Hurt have base salaries that still won't impact the cap under the rule of 51 this year other than the pro rate money.
The needs the space for the rookie pool before the draft, once they meet that requirement, they can turn into the Bucs and lowball all of their rookies. But they can't max out everybody because they have a set amount they can use.
Like the link says (without saying)... it's a cap within a cap, but not really.
Remember my reply to your first question...
| 1niksder wrote: | My understanding is ....They need to have it prior to the draft, but the thing is with the way rookies are slotted now, they'll only need about $5M to cover the picks. Once they are drafted and signed the rule of 51 kicks back in.
Prior to the draft it's Rule of 51 + rookie pool.
This is a good explanation of how it is set up |
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riggofan
Hog
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 2945
Location: Montclair, Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="SkinsJock"] | riggofan wrote: | | .. besides .. from all accounts this is just a pain in the butt - we are going to be fine no matter what the arbitrator rules |
Uh, okay. But we'll be a lot better if the arbitrator rules in our favor and restores our cap space than if he upholds the penalty. |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| 1niksder wrote: |
They need the space for the rookie pool before the draft, once they meet that requirement, they can turn into the Bucs and lowball all of their rookies. But they can't max out everybody because they have a set amount they can use.
Like the link says (without saying)... it's a cap within a cap, but not really.
Remember my reply to your first question...
| 1niksder wrote: | My understanding is ....They need to have it prior to the draft, but the thing is with the way rookies are slotted now, they'll only need about $5M to cover the picks. Once they are drafted and signed the rule of 51 kicks back in.
Prior to the draft it's Rule of 51 + rookie pool.
This is a good explanation of how it is set up |
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Now we have this
| Quote: | “The problem, as the source explained it, comes from the original calculations that would have put this year’s salary cap as low as $113 million per team. When the NFL and NFLPA agreed to bump the 2012 cap to $120.6 million per team, the NFL and the NFLPA didn’t include within the agreement the rookie pool.
“Last year’s rookie pool was based on a per-team cap of $120.375 million.” |
The league forgot about the Rookie pool when they decided to screw the Skins and ttiT, so they're not sure what the pool will be or who to screw to bump it up. There is a good chance the pool won't be set until after the draft. How that will work is a mystery to me but I'm guessing there will be less space needed to meet the number that they come out with and Gaffney may still be on the roster after the draft.
The pool my be 6% less than the numbers I had |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11515
Location: New England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| SkinsJock wrote: | | riggofan wrote: | | .. besides .. from all accounts this is just a pain in the butt - we are going to be fine no matter what the arbitrator rules |
Uh, okay. But we'll be a lot better if the arbitrator rules in our favor and restores our cap space than if he upholds the penalty. |
 I give up
the arbitrator is NOT doing anything until May - the draft is next week
I'd love to have this BS decision changed - I HIGHLY doubt that the FO is planning on that
This FO will manage THIS situation .... thankfully we have a good FO ... finally  |
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