RGIII and the Spread QB Debate

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RGIII and the Spread QB Debate

Postby Red_One43 » Sun May 20, 2012 2:28 pm

Nobody's heard the argument more than quarterbacks in the Big 12.
"You played in a spread? Good luck in the NFL, pal."


One of the biggest questions about RGIIIs success hovers around this questions, but a closer look reveals two issues that make it more likely that RGIII will succeed in the NFL.

1. Look at Cam Newton's (unbelievable rookie season) and Tim Tebow's (play-off run) success and what do these spread QBs have in common? Their offenses were adjusted to fit their strengths.

Shanny has pledged to do the same with RGIII. RGIII will not be coming into a he has to learn the Redskin's pro system. RGIII will be the system.

However, you are starting to see guys like Cam Newton and Tim Tebow, who came from the spread in college, begin to enjoy success in the NFL. Their pro teams were willing to break the mold of conventional quarterback play to allow their more athletic quarterbacks to make plays with their legs. Newton and Tebow are the freakiest of freak athletes, however, so it's unlikely other teams will be able to duplicate their success in a league where linebackers and defensive ends are running 4.5-second 40s.


2. Spread offenses are full of quick routes and bubbles screens. NFL scouts ask if the spread QB can hit the intermediates and deep throws.
RGIII can.

That is why Baylor QB Robert Griffin III has become such a hot commodity. While he plays in a variation of the spread, he can also make all the intermediate throws and is the best deep-ball thrower in college football.


There are risks taking advantage of the running skills of spread QBs like RGIII which is probably why Shanny drafted Cousins - he knows the risks.

To say RGIII has a higher chance of failing because he is a college spread QB or that he is a Big 12 QB, fails to take into account that Shanny is going to adjust the offense to what RGIII does well.

http://espn.go.com/high-school/football ... ro-success

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id ... fl-success
Last edited by Red_One43 on Mon May 21, 2012 4:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby aswas71788 » Sun May 20, 2012 4:02 pm

So what that he played in the spread offense. There are plenty of quarterbacks that played in the type of offense that the "experts" (I say that with disdain.) think is the correct one and have failed miserably. Times change and so does the NFL. When one team starts winning, almost every other team copies it. i.e. the wildcat offense.

I don't expect miracles this year, just a better team than last year.

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Postby Red_One43 » Sun May 20, 2012 4:33 pm

Recent QB History
Quarterbacks drafted in first or second round career numbers, since 2005
.

Spread
Players 11
Starts 256
Career win pct. .518
Playoff W-L 5-5
Comp pct. 59.6
TD-INT ratio 1.22
Passer rating 80.7

No Spread
Players 13
Starts 341
Career win pct. .481
Playoff W-L 8-6
Comp pct. 59.0
TD-INT ratio 1.39
Passer rating 80.4

The 11 spread quarterbacks had a slightly higher passer rating in the NFL than the non-spread quarterbacks. They also had a higher completion percentage and winning percentage.

It is reasonable to believe the players who ran the spread in college would struggle in their first year in the league. Again, that is not the case. Of the quarterbacks drafted in the first two rounds since 2005, 11 of them took 150 or more snaps in their rookie seasons. Of those players, the spread quarterbacks started fewer games but had a higher completion percentage and TD-to-INT ratio. However, the spread quarterbacks were sacked at a higher rate, which could point to an inability to read defenses and make decisions as efficiently.*


So what is all the fuss that some folks are making about RGIII coming from a spread offense?

*Skinsfan33 can offer a better reason why they are getting sacked more.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011 ... id=6355471
Last edited by Red_One43 on Sun May 20, 2012 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby rskin72 » Sun May 20, 2012 5:10 pm

Good articles Red, thanks for posting. I agree with last sentence of that ESPN article ....basically that good qb's can suceed in the NFL regardless of what offense they ran in college. Really more about how well the coaching staff and scouts analyze the player, and evaluate his skill set to what the team needs.
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Postby Red_One43 » Sun May 20, 2012 5:30 pm

Can we kill the annual taking snaps under center adjustment thing?

While much is made during every spring’s draft scouting season about whether or not spread-offense QBs can master the center exchange, no one seems to be worrying much about that in the fall these days.


“I think it’s a knee-jerk reaction to the spread offense, which I’ve had as well, when I scout college quarterbacks,” said NFL Films guru Greg Cosell, who serves as creator and executive producer of ESPN’s NFL Matchup, for years the most respected football analysis show on television.



Ron Jaworski on RGIII taking snaps form under center:
I think the snaps under center are irrelevant. He did take some snaps under center. I can speak from experience. I played at Youngstown State in the sidesaddle T, which is a variation of the present spread shot gun. Every snap I took was away from center. It probably took me two days [in an NFL camp] to get that down. These guys are incredible athletes. I don’t foresee that as a problem. I also don’t see coming from that spread offense as a problem.


John Keim:
one area that many pundits seem to talk about is taking snaps under center. Just know this: I haven’t talked to a single QB yet — even when talking to them just casually and not for this story — who considered that a difficult adjustment. In fact, during a conversation I had with John Beck earlier this year, he said it was no big deal. So, too, did Ron Jaworski and others.



http://smartfootball.com/uncategorized/ ... arterbacks

http://washingtonexaminer.com/sports/re ... ski/563186
Last edited by Red_One43 on Sun May 27, 2012 11:36 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby Red_One43 » Sun May 20, 2012 5:38 pm

The spread offense can be more mentally demanding than traditional offenses.

But the bit of wisdom NFL coaches are finally coming around to is that the spread is much more demanding of the quarterback than other offenses, particularly in the amount of responsibility the quarterback has before the snap. The piece focuses on post-snap reads, but the real benefit is that these quarterbacks operate in the no-huddle and learn to scan defenses and check runs, passes and screens depending on what the defense is giving them. They may have all new keys and frameworks in the pros, but the “traditional” quarterback may have operated in a far less demanding offense — maybe not so much physically in terms of deep play-action comeback routes, but mentally, with their responsibilities.


No one has denied that RGIII has football smarts - we're good here.
Last edited by Red_One43 on Sun May 20, 2012 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Red_One43 » Sun May 20, 2012 6:06 pm

Footwork?

"The essential principles of productive quarterback play [footwork, balance, transfer of weight and timing] are often compromised in the spread."


Ron Jaworski scouting RGIII at Baylor:
A couple concerns I had watching him at Baylor… I was a little concerned about the consistency. I thought many of his throws were off-balance and at times mechanically unsound with his footwork and balance


Well there it is RGIII has been compromised by the spread O. Right?

No so fast - go ahead Jaworski:
When I watched his workout I was watching those two areas of his game that I considered flaws. After that workout he did not have a flaw. I was very impressed with the work he had done to improve on what I perceived as weaknesses. It taught me two things: He’s coachable and he accepts coaching and he wants to get better. That’s critical when you go to the next level. You have to be a sponge to learn and study and prepare.


I recognize that none of this proves RGIII will succeed, but we that if RGIII does not succeed, it will not because he was a spread QB in college. Too many spread QBs have succeeded, and too many traditional offense guys have failed, to say that spread guys are behind the power curve.
The evidence points to RGIII having a very strong chance to succeed in the NFL.

Work ethic, A tailored Offens, can make the NFL throws, football smarts, athletic, average size, speed, excels in deep throws.
Last edited by Red_One43 on Sun May 20, 2012 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Red_One43 » Sun May 20, 2012 7:36 pm

This article is dated (Zorn was HC at the time), but it gives an opinion of a QB that had to make the transition.

Kyle Orton says:
"I was in the gun about 90 percent of the time when I was at Purdue,'' said former Bears and current Broncos quarterback Kyle Orton. "And I went into a power running game, two-back, seven-step drop system in Chicago when I got to the NFL and it took a while to get accustomed to that. It's not an excuse, but you're going from what was your comfort zone to something else while trying to do the right thing with the ball. There's an adjustment there and probably bigger than you think as a player.''


Orton admits having trouble making the adjustment to the pro style, but did he have the skill set coming out of college, that RGIII? Does skill set matter?

Gary Kubiak thinks so:

"But you want to see how a guy gets back there and how he makes the throws he needs to make," Kubiak said. "If he's got a good enough arm and is a good enough athlete to make the changes he has to with his feet, then he's got a chance. It may take more time and a lot of work, and maybe he doesn't play as quickly as people expect, but that's why they call us coach, to figure out a way to get them to do it. If he has the tools, if he can do it, we have to figure out a way to get it done."


RGIII has the tools to get it done. Now, Shanny need to coach him. RGIII and Shanny are on the same sheet of music.


The author of the articles ends with:
I just watched a special about Joe Montana, who at Notre Dame had been running the triple-option; Bill Walsh, who knows a thing or two about coaching quarterbacks, wasn't scared away.


http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009/ ... n-nfl.html
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Postby Red_One43 » Sun May 20, 2012 7:54 pm

How often do NFL Offenses run spread sets?
(this is another dated article, 2008, but I believe will be found relevant)

What spread detractors often don’t mention either is that two of the best NFL offenses of 2007 employed spread sets.

The New England Patriots ran the most spread in 2007, and it produced one of the best offenses the NFL has ever seen. Brett Farve experienced a renaissance last season in Green Bay, also aided in part by running some shotgun spread.


Shanny said he will adjust the offense to RGIII's strengths. We might be seeing more spread sets.

"We're going to adjust our system to what he feels comfortable with," Shanahan said, "and we'll watch him grow and we'll do what we feel like he can do and what he does the best. ... One thing the NFL is not used to is a quarterback with his type of speed and his type of throwing ability, so I think we can do some things that people haven't done."


http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/78968 ... kins-day-1

http://year2.wordpress.com/2008/08/26/s ... n-the-nfl/
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Postby Red_One43 » Sun May 20, 2012 8:03 pm

The trap:

If I was a GM in the NFL I want a QB who runs a pro style offense in college. The pro style college quarterback is already used to being under center while the spread quarterback is used to always being in the shotgun. In the NFL teams more times then not have the QB under center expect on 3rd downs in passing situations. Jimmie Clausen comes from the pro style offense under Charlie Weis at Notre Dame. I am betting he will have a better career then Bradford because he is more prepared to run the pro offense in the NFL.


Don't fall into this trap!!!

The guy with the skills and skill set is the guy you go with and in a draft with two guys with the skill set and work ethic, you go with the better fit for your O. Never take a QB or not take a QB because he comes from a particular offense.

http://www.footballinsiders.net/nfl/can ... n-the-nfl/

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Postby ATX_Skins » Mon May 21, 2012 7:20 am

Information overload, good stuff
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Postby SkinsJock » Mon May 21, 2012 7:25 am

Red_One43 wrote:The trap:

If I was a GM in the NFL I want a QB who runs a pro style offense in college. The pro style college quarterback is already used to being under center while the spread quarterback is used to always being in the shotgun. In the NFL teams more times then not have the QB under center expect on 3rd downs in passing situations. Jimmie Clausen comes from the pro style offense under Charlie Weis at Notre Dame. I am betting he will have a better career then Bradford because he is more prepared to run the pro offense in the NFL.


Don't fall into this trap!!!

The guy with the skills and skill set is the guy you go with and in a draft with two guys with the skill set and work ethic, you go with the better fit for your O. Never take a QB or not take a QB because he comes from a particular offense.

http://www.footballinsiders.net/nfl/can ... n-the-nfl/


thanks for the breakdown Red_One

let's face it - there is way too much importance placed on stuff & stats from the past

This kid's future depends basically on his abilities and especially his desire to learn plus the HC's knowledge of how to get the most from him and surround him with the players and coaches he needs to be great

all the rest of that stuff is basically "paralysis through analysis" :lol:

we have a future great QB here that really wants to be as good as he can be
Mike Shanahan is going to ensure that RGIII becomes a great NFL QB - how lucky are we :D
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Postby DarthMonk » Mon May 21, 2012 11:49 am

ATX_Skins wrote:Information overload, good stuff


I suggest we get a little more scientific about this. Why study a bunch of facts when we can just ask someone who is always right?

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Postby SkinsJock » Mon May 21, 2012 12:28 pm

as has been so clearly pointed out - RGIII can and will do whatever it takes to be the best he can be - that's how he has lived and that's how he's played the game

Everything football related that Robert Griffin III has done has prepared him for the opportunity to be a really good NFL QB

Mike Shanahan will now take this incredibly talented and gifted athlete & adjust the offensive game plan to suit the other players he has & what RGIII is able to do

Both will benefit from the expeiences gained so far as both a player and a coach

RGIII is very fortunate to come into the NFL and have the benefit of being coached by one of the best head coaches and QB coaches in the NFL

Mike Shanahan is very fortunate to have a kid that has shown an incredible desire to both do whatever it takes and also to be coached up

this is going to be fun :D
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Postby PulpExposure » Mon May 21, 2012 2:04 pm

Great job, Red_One! Thanks.

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