Health Care

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the 'mudge
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Postby Countertrey » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:50 am

I also know why the Tenth Amendment was added...

Question: Is Healthcare a right?

If yes, then please justify the taxing of medical devices.

If yes, then please justify the taxing of the purchase of health insurance. A number of states fund their "special" insurance plans provided to non-contributors by taxing private insurance purchases...

You cannot tax a right. Doing so suggests that it is NOT a right.

Question: Is breathing a right?
If so, please justify the taxing of metabolism, which appears to be the case in the health care mandate. If you are contributing to the funding of the federal budget (eg, can afford to pay taxes) you will be required to either purchase insurance... or pay a tax... just because you are breathing.

Seems breathing is not a right, but a taxable commodity.
"That's a clown question, bro"
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#33
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:04 pm

Cappster wrote:And the US Supreme Court just declared the healthcare law Constitutional soooooo.....moving on.



Uh, no they DID NOT!!!

They declared the actual letter of the law to not be Un-Constitutional. They whole heartily agreed that the Fed mandating people to buy a product (in this case health insurance) was unconstitutional. So why did they not declare the law Un-Consitutional?

Because they found a loop hole! They said that while it is outside of the scope of the Constitution to mandate the purchase of a product the deemed that the law was not Un-Constitutional (that is different from saying it is Constitutional) because the Congress has the right to impose ANY tax they want on the Citizens of this country.

So the Republicans don’t have to repeal the health care law, they just need to change the tax code to not collect those taxes. The problem with that is it leaves this law on the books.

I would have no problem if with the law if it incentive people to get health care, or if it made health care more affordable, or if it improved health care as a whole (there are some good things in this law). But what I don’t like is the fact half of the people in the country will being paying two health care bills. Theirs and one of the other 50% that don’t pay taxes.

It is simply not the place of the Fed to get this involved in states right, private industry, and personal rights. Who are they to tell me if my health care is suitable or not? Besides do you really want the Government running health care (AND MAKE NO MISTAKES THAT IS WHAT THIS WILL END UP BEING)?

The Airline industry was going to go straight down the crapper until it was deregulated! Think about that! The Government was killing the airline industry, which is much easier to run than health care, and now they will be in charge of your health care.

If I was the gods for a day and all I could do was impact the US Government policy and I was only given two chance to improve the Gov I would:
 Abolish the two party system (make people actually have to think about what they are voting for!)
 Outlaw lobbyist of ANY kind!

It doesn’t matter what the current President stands for personally or the next guy/gal that become the President, or the next guy/gal , or the one after that! They will ALL be puppets to their party; non-thinking, face men.
Why else do you think each party continues to trot out such weak people to represent them! When was the last time you actually felt good about voting for a President? For me I have to go back to Regan and I was too young to vote for him so I guess the closest would be Big Bush! And I wasn’t too wild about that!
Look who we have to vote for this time. A total failure of an incumbent or a totally unappealing tool to replace him… -drinking -drinking -drinking -drinking :puke:
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

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DarthMonk
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Postby DarthMonk » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:47 pm

Not trying to enter a current argument but just pointing out a few things.

Countertrey wrote:The government does 2 things well... Fight wars, and collect taxes.


It actually doesn't do these things very well anymore either. :mrgreen: That was a stab at light-hearted humor.

Countertrey wrote:53% of the adult population does not pay taxes... that means that 47% are carrying the load.


What I heard wa 53% of HOUSEHOLDS do pay. 47% do not ... and the "blame" can be spread both left and right.

Rhetorical fervor aside, the 53 Percent campaign does raise an interesting question: What is going on with that other 47 percent? Why are so few people paying income taxes? For the answer to that question, we turn to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, which released a study on the subject this July. (The TPC also put out the initial report with the 53 percent number.)

The short answer is: deductions and poverty. About half of households within that 47 percent do not end up paying federal income tax because they qualify for enough breaks to cancel their tax obligations out. Of that group, 44 percent are claiming tax benefits for the elderly, like an exemption for Social Security payments. And 30.4 percent are claiming credits for “children and the working poor,” like the child-care tax credit. The remainder get breaks for investment income, spending on education, itemized deductions, and a mish-mash of other things. When combined, it’s all enough to cancel out their income tax requirements.

In short, it is not that they are not paying their taxes. It is that the country’s tax structure lets them off the hook. Indeed, you can draw a straight line between the Bush tax cuts and the growing number of households exempted from income tax. For instance, the 2001 cuts, extended under the Obama administration, doubled the child tax credit from $500 to $1,000 and expanded eligibility for the Earned Income Tax Credit among married taxpayers. Additionally, the Bush tax cuts lowered income taxes in every bracket, making it easier for a household’s liability to get fully offset by deductions and credits. And on top of all that, the stimulus bill introduced a host of further tax cuts.

That covers about half of the households that don’t pay any federal income taxes. The other half of households are just too poor to pay them. The Tax Policy Center provides a handy example: A couple with two children earning less than $26,400 per year pays no income tax if it takes standard deductions and common exemptions, for instance. “The basic structure of the income tax simply exempts subsistence levels of income from tax,” TPC’s Roberton Williams writes.


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#33
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:27 am

DarthMonk wrote:
Of that group, 44 percent are claiming tax benefits for the elderly, like an exemption for Social Security payments.
“The basic structure of the income tax simply exempts subsistence levels of income from tax,” TPC’s Roberton Williams writes.
[u]


DarthMonk

Someone needs to tell that Mr. Williams that Social Security payments are taxable and you can't exempt the from your income.

You pay taxes on Social Security twice. Once when you put money into the program and then the second time (if you're lucky enough that the program is still there when you retire) when you get SS payments.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

the 'mudge
Posts: 14243
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine

Postby Countertrey » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:48 am

Whether YOU are right... or I am right... I am no more comforted by that number. It is still damned near the same number... and half of Americans do nothing to prop up this increasingly obese, non-productive, and parasitic government... which will definitively NOT be relieved by this debacle of an overreaach of a "health care" tax... Someone will pay... and a significant portion of the population will have no burden in that.
"That's a clown question, bro"
- - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman
"But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have"
- - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America

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