When you add it all up...

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When you add it all up...

Postby 1niksder » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:49 am

The 1991 Redskins Were Basically The Best Team Ever, Says MathBy Jamie Mottram | July 23, 2012

I’m a longtime fan of the Football Outsiders gang and am just ripping through their 2012 Almanac, so it’s with great joy that I present to you their latest finding:

With the official unveiling of the 1991 DVOA [Defense-adjusted Value Over Average] ratings, the Redskins pass the 2007 Patriots as the highest-rated team in DVOA history.

Washington may have been the most well-rounded team in NFL history. We now have DVOA ratings for 645 teams, and in that whole group, the 1991 Redskins rank 17th in offense, 16th in defense, and 13th in special teams. They rank fifth all-time in pass offense and 11th in pass defense. They aren’t ranked as highly on run offense and run defense, but were still among the top ten teams of 1991 in both ratings. The Redskins were the best defense and the third-best offense in the second half with the score within a touchdown, which helps make them the first team to ever hit 16.0 Estimated Wins.


Click through for a table of the top 10 teams ranked by DVOA from ‘91 to 2011 as well as all kinds of good stuff about the league that year. But first, a couple more nuggets about those ‘91 Skins:

A lot of the best teams in NFL history got a little extra boost by picking on an easy schedule, but not Washington. They had an average schedule, and a harder-than-average schedule of opposing defenses.

[...]



A lot of people don't like the Football Outsiders and the way they breakdown numbers but this is a good breakdown.
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Postby Deadskins » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:14 pm

I already knew that was the best team of all-time. :lol:
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Postby 1niksder » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:22 pm

Deadskins wrote:I already knew that was the best team of all-time. :lol:
Me too
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Postby Countertrey » Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:29 pm

They were simply awesome... if only Coach hadn't decided to rest the vets in the second Philly game... they most certainly would have gone 19-0.
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Postby Deadskins » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:09 pm

Countertrey wrote:They were simply awesome... if only Coach hadn't decided to rest the vets in the second Philly game... they most certainly would have gone 19-0.

The Cowpie loss in week 12 made the Smeagol game irrelevant. Gibbs brought in Ricky Irvins too late.
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Re: When you add it all up...

Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:45 pm

1niksder wrote:A lot of people don't like the Football Outsiders and the way they breakdown numbers but this is a good breakdown.


I saw this when they released it a couple of weeks ago. I find it especially interesting because you almost never hear the '91 Skins mentioned in "greatest" discussions — at least not when there are no Redskins fans involved. :lol:
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Postby the poster » Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:30 pm

hard to evaluate that team because it had such an easy, unchallenging road in the playoffs.

the freaking falcons, lions, and everybody's super bowl failure: the bills.

there was no classic niners-cowboys matches that would follow a couple years later, no great giants team, niners team, or bears team, and the cowboys weren't quite there yet. when evaluating this 91 redskins team versus other teams for the argument of who is the greatest of all time....THIS is where the 91 redskins loses the votes necessary, they were not challenged.

their division was a cakewalk because the team that certifiably owned Washington back then, the giants, saw their head coach bill parcells retire before the season started, going out on top, and the giants clearly sunk with ray handily the next year. the eagles qb was lost for the season (if im not mistaken, they then lost their backup qb too) and the cowboys weren't the team that would dominate the division for the next decade quite yet (and the cardinals of course didnt count as a professional team then) . point blank...the 91 redskins was Joe gibbs playing madden on the easy level setting - no real challenge.

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Postby Deadskins » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:12 pm

The beauty of the '91 team was their total dominance over all the teams they faced, especially in the playoffs. They destroyed teams in the regular season, posting 3 shutouts in their first 5 games, including a 45-0 blowout of the Detroit Lions (12-4) in the season opener. There was the 56-17 dismantling of the 10-6 Falcons (still in the NFC West with the mighty 49ers) in week 11. Their two losses coming only by a combined 5 points.

And the playoffs were no different. First up were those same Falcons, who had beaten the division winning 12-4 Saints the week before, rolling over them in the mud and rain to a 24-7 win. Then came the #2 seed Detroit again. Having rolled over the wild-card Cowpies 38-6 the week before, the Lions fell 41-10 this time. And the Super-Bowl was no different. Facing a powerhouse Bills team, who had beaten the mighty G-strings in the previous year's Super-Bowl, only to lose the game on a missed FG, Washington rolled to a 37-10 4th quarter lead before giving up 14 points in garbage time to make the final score look closer than the game.

Yes, this was truly a magnificent team, and those with any knowledge of football know that this was easily the best team of all time. And then there's this. :whistle:
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Postby welch » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:30 pm

Deadskins wrote:I already knew that was the best team of all-time. :lol:


Me, too.

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Postby welch » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:58 pm

the poster wrote:hard to evaluate that team because it had such an easy, unchallenging road in the playoffs.

the freaking falcons, lions, and everybody's super bowl failure: the bills.

there was no classic niners-cowboys matches that would follow a couple years later, no great giants team, niners team, or bears team, and the cowboys weren't quite there yet. when evaluating this 91 redskins team versus other teams for the argument of who is the greatest of all time....THIS is where the 91 redskins loses the votes necessary, they were not challenged.

their division was a cakewalk because the team that certifiably owned Washington back then, the giants, saw their head coach bill parcells retire before the season started, going out on top, and the giants clearly sunk with ray handily the next year. the eagles qb was lost for the season (if im not mistaken, they then lost their backup qb too) and the cowboys weren't the team that would dominate the division for the next decade quite yet (and the cardinals of course didnt count as a professional team then) . point blank...the 91 redskins was Joe gibbs playing madden on the easy level setting - no real challenge.


'91 was the year the Run&Shoot ("Red Gun") offenses slaughtered everybody. No team had a defense against it. Recall that Detroit beat the Cowboys about 40 - 0 in their playoff, and that was the same Cowboys everybody thought was great the next year. Reporters asked Richie Petibon how he would defense the Lions, and he answered, "Well, all I know is I won't do what the Cowboys tried".

Buffalo was favored in the SB, since they had just barely lost to the Giants the year before. See the SI preview. Bills were he super team with super stars, the unstoppable no-huddle offense. Gibss taught the Redskin offense the no-huddle, and Petibon time the plays so he could make personnel changes. Bills had never seen that.

Meanwhile, the Hogs just hammered the all-star Buffalo defense. They hit Bruce Smith again and again, and by Q2 Smith just wasn't as enthusiastic about charging at Mark Rypien. The Skins also, just for grins, ran the no- huddle and the Bills defense wanted to hide.

Regular season? Don't you remember that the Redskins had always been able to beat the Eagles? Buddy Ryan had a crude offense that Petibon always tricked and trapped and baffled. The Eagles defense was mean and dirty, but not tough enough when the Hoigs kept hitting them. Remember Jerome Brown grabbing Stan Humphries's ankle after a hit, after Humphries was head to the ground and legs in the air...Brown saw an ankle and gave it a twist. That was the "Body Bag" game from the previous season. That's how Brian Mitchell ended the game at QB. In the playoff that year, Gibbs ran the Hogs at the Bruce White and Jerome Brown, over and over, and the Eagles cracked.

Giants were a force until the second half of the first Redskin game in '91. Redskins crushed them in the second half, and the Giants eventually gave up. Decisive: Lawrence Taylor could not beat Jim Lachey one-on-one. Lachey was too big and strong for Taylor head-on, and Lachey was too nimble for Taylor to get around him.

On the whole: NFC East had Cowboys becoming a super-power, the Giants still dangerous, and the Eagles also dangerous. The Cardinals were about the only weak team. That's six games against smash-mouth teams stronger than anyone else. Throw in a game against every Run&Shoot team (Houston as well?) and the Redskins beat every type of team in the league.

Nope. The record shows that the '91 Redskins look to have had an easier time...until you se that they mashed the best teams in the NFL. They won big over very good teams.

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Postby DarthMonk » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:58 pm

welch wrote:
Deadskins wrote:I already knew that was the best team of all-time. :lol:


Me, too.


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Postby emoses14 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:26 pm

Deadskins wrote:The beauty of the '91 team was their total dominance over all the teams they faced, especially in the playoffs. They destroyed teams in the regular season, posting 3 shutouts in their first 5 games, including a 45-0 blowout of the Detroit Lions (12-4) in the season opener. There was the 56-17 dismantling of the 10-6 Falcons (still in the NFC West with the mighty 49ers) in week 11. Their two losses coming only by a combined 5 points.

And the playoffs were no different. First up were those same Falcons, who had beaten the division winning 12-4 Saints the week before, rolling over them in the mud and rain to a 24-7 win. Then came the #2 seed Detroit again. Having rolled over the wild-card Cowpies 38-6 the week before, the Lions fell 41-10 this time. And the Super-Bowl was no different. Facing a powerhouse Bills team, who had beaten the mighty G-strings in the previous year's Super-Bowl, only to lose the game on a missed FG, Washington rolled to a 37-10 4th quarter lead before giving up 14 points in garbage time to make the final score look closer than the game.

Yes, this was truly a magnificent team, and those with any knowledge of football know that this was easily the best team of all time. And then there's this. :whistle:


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Postby the poster » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:28 pm

welch wrote: The record shows that the '91 Redskins look to have had an easier time...until you se that they mashed the best teams in the NFL.


no they didn't. they never had to play any of the traditional great teams of that era in January because the teams that represented the best of that area were the niners, giants and the bears and eagles to a lesser extent. they all had down years in 1991.

the redskins werent challenged in january. and thats the problem historians have with the 91 redskins when they are comparing them to the other teams that are up for the arugment of greatest team ever.

the giants for example, under Bill Parcells, OWNED the Redskins and I think they would have beat the Redskins in the playoffs, when it mattered the most. why am I so sure? For the SAME REASON you would be so sure washington would win that game: because I believe so. of course, I know, that the numbers are on my side too....they OWNED the redskins until parcells retired.

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Postby 1niksder » Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:42 pm

the poster wrote:hard to evaluate that team because it had such an easy, unchallenging road in the playoffs.

the freaking falcons, lions, and everybody's super bowl failure: the bills.

there was no classic niners-cowboys matches that would follow a couple years later, no great giants team, niners team, or bears team, and the cowboys weren't quite there yet. when evaluating this 91 redskins team versus other teams for the argument of who is the greatest of all time....THIS is where the 91 redskins loses the votes necessary, they were not challenged.

their division was a cakewalk because the team that certifiably owned Washington back then, the giants, saw their head coach bill parcells retire before the season started, going out on top, and the giants clearly sunk with ray handily the next year. the eagles qb was lost for the season (if im not mistaken, they then lost their backup qb too) and the cowboys weren't the team that would dominate the division for the next decade quite yet (and the cardinals of course didnt count as a professional team then) . point blank...the 91 redskins was Joe gibbs playing madden on the easy level setting - no real challenge.


ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO ROTFALMAO
That's My My 2 cents or one for every win in 1991 it was quicker than posting 322 smiley to represent the total number of points the 91 Skins outscored their opponents by. I guess I could have just went with 30 which happens to be the turnover differences on the positive side for that 91 one team that's so hard to judge. We both know posting 813 smiley (the difference in passing yards) or 949 smileys (the difference in rushing yards) were out of the question.

You make it hard to just use smiley with your lack of knowledge of this team (a team you say you use to be a fan of doing that time).
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Postby SouthLondonRedskin » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:48 am

Deadskins wrote:The beauty of the '91 team was their total dominance over all the teams they faced, especially in the playoffs. They destroyed teams in the regular season, posting 3 shutouts in their first 5 games, including a 45-0 blowout of the Detroit Lions (12-4) in the season opener. There was the 56-17 dismantling of the 10-6 Falcons (still in the NFC West with the mighty 49ers) in week 11. Their two losses coming only by a combined 5 points.

And the playoffs were no different. First up were those same Falcons, who had beaten the division winning 12-4 Saints the week before, rolling over them in the mud and rain to a 24-7 win. Then came the #2 seed Detroit again. Having rolled over the wild-card Cowpies 38-6 the week before, the Lions fell 41-10 this time. And the Super-Bowl was no different. Facing a powerhouse Bills team, who had beaten the mighty G-strings in the previous year's Super-Bowl, only to lose the game on a missed FG, Washington rolled to a 37-10 4th quarter lead before giving up 14 points in garbage time to make the final score look closer than the game.

Yes, this was truly a magnificent team, and those with any knowledge of football know that this was easily the best team of all time. And then there's this. :whistle:


Sorry DS, perhaps you can help me. I couldn't quite see those dogged Browns from Cleveland in those standings, has there been some sort of mistake...?

Surely a team with such a long history would have at least one side featured in such a list...??

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