Lichtensteiger's knee scoped - What Shape is the O Line in?

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Postby UK Skins Fan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:17 pm

emoses14 wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote:I'd just like to see a good offensive line. If they're all just out of kindergarten, or an old folks home, I just don't care. It would be nice to go into a season without having any worries about the o-line for once, but here we go again. We went 20 years without a QB - how much longer are we going to have to wait for an o-line?

Trying to see silver lining too, but just keep finding huge black thunderclouds.


End of October.

What happens then?
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Postby 1niksder » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:22 pm

UK Skins Fan wrote:I'd just like to see a good offensive line. If they're all just out of kindergarten, or an old folks home, I just don't care. It would be nice to go into a season without having any worries about the o-line for once, but here we go again. We went 20 years without a QB - how much longer are we going to have to wait for an o-line?

Trying to see silver lining too, but just keep finding huge black thunderclouds.


The O-line worked pretty well together over the last few weeks of the season. Reports out of the early days of TC have been that the starting group didn't look good at all. That could have been because it is early and they have to get back "into their groove" or more than likely it was because it was a group of guys that hadn't lined up together since Oct of last year. When Brown went down the team looked at moving Hurt to tackle because he played well enough that they want him on the field. Then this think with Kory forced them to move Hurt back to guard and insert Smith/Polumbus at tackle.

That's how they lined up most of the last few games last season... So they are back to where they ended last season, They might start to look good in campand but all of our minds at rest.
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Postby Mississippiskinsfan2 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:24 pm

UK Skins Fan wrote:
emoses14 wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote:I'd just like to see a good offensive line. If they're all just out of kindergarten, or an old folks home, I just don't care. It would be nice to go into a season without having any worries about the o-line for once, but here we go again. We went 20 years without a QB - how much longer are we going to have to wait for an o-line?

Trying to see silver lining too, but just keep finding huge black thunderclouds.


End of October.

What happens then?


November?

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Postby UK Skins Fan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:37 pm

Mississippiskinsfan2 wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote:
emoses14 wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote:I'd just like to see a good offensive line. If they're all just out of kindergarten, or an old folks home, I just don't care. It would be nice to go into a season without having any worries about the o-line for once, but here we go again. We went 20 years without a QB - how much longer are we going to have to wait for an o-line?

Trying to see silver lining too, but just keep finding huge black thunderclouds.


End of October.

What happens then?


November?

Good point. Although, our "summer" started with three consecutive Novembers this year, so you can't rely 100% on the calendar.
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Postby UK Skins Fan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:39 pm

1niksder wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote:I'd just like to see a good offensive line. If they're all just out of kindergarten, or an old folks home, I just don't care. It would be nice to go into a season without having any worries about the o-line for once, but here we go again. We went 20 years without a QB - how much longer are we going to have to wait for an o-line?

Trying to see silver lining too, but just keep finding huge black thunderclouds.


The O-line worked pretty well together over the last few weeks of the season. Reports out of the early days of TC have been that the starting group didn't look good at all. That could have been because it is early and they have to get back "into their groove" or more than likely it was because it was a group of guys that hadn't lined up together since Oct of last year. When Brown went down the team looked at moving Hurt to tackle because he played well enough that they want him on the field. Then this think with Kory forced them to move Hurt back to guard and insert Smith/Polumbus at tackle.

That's how they lined up most of the last few games last season... So they are back to where they ended last season, They might start to look good in campand but all of our minds at rest.

They MIGHT ;-)
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Postby 1niksder » Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:46 pm

It's a thin lining but it could be a silver lining
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Postby SkinsJock » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:05 pm

The offensive line was a big concern at the begining of last season too

We did get an opportunity to see some encouraging signs from players but ...

the offensive line is a concern and will take time - not a lot of time, but it's not going to suddenly be a very good part of the offense
It's taken years for the Redskins to become as bad as we are - there is no way that the team is going to be consistently competitive in the near future, the problems here are complex - unfortunately with Dan Snyder, it is what it is

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Postby DarthMonk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:16 pm

1niksder wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote:I'd just like to see a good offensive line. If they're all just out of kindergarten, or an old folks home, I just don't care. It would be nice to go into a season without having any worries about the o-line for once, but here we go again. We went 20 years without a QB - how much longer are we going to have to wait for an o-line?

Trying to see silver lining too, but just keep finding huge black thunderclouds.


The O-line worked pretty well together over the last few weeks of the season. Reports out of the early days of TC have been that the starting group didn't look good at all. That could have been because it is early and they have to get back "into their groove" or more than likely it was because it was a group of guys that hadn't lined up together since Oct of last year. When Brown went down the team looked at moving Hurt to tackle because he played well enough that they want him on the field. Then this think with Kory forced them to move Hurt back to guard and insert Smith/Polumbus at tackle.

That's how they lined up most of the last few games last season... So they are back to where they ended last season, They might start to look good in campand but all of our minds at rest.


This has to be our hope because things look bad right now. I think the place the $18 M cap hit hurt the most was this unit. I have to beleve we would have moved on an FA O-lineman otherwise. Let's hope we keep the current 5 healthy and that the draft picks, etc. prove to be quality depth.

[-o<

PS - More 2 and 3 TE sets might be in order.

Paul said he doesn’t yet fully know what his role will be, but he is focusing on learning as much as he can from tight ends coach Sean McVay and teammates Davis, Cooley and Logan Paulsen. The Redskins often use multiple tight end sets in their offense, and Paul has been asked to learn both the ‘Y’(or lead tight end) and ‘Tiger’ (more of a secondary/blocking end) positions.

There’s a degree of uncertainty with the Redskins’ tight end position. The Redskins hope that Davis – who was suspended for four games for failing multiple drug tests last season – can build on his production last year, when he recorded 59 catches, 796 yards and three touchdowns. Cooley was limited to five games (eight catches, 65 yards) because of a recurring knee injury, and it remains to be seen whether the Redskins are willing to carry him at his current cap figure of $6.23 million. Paulsen is a solid blocking end, but in two years has a combined 13 catches for 148 yards and a touchdown.

“I definitely think I can do it,” Paul said. “I’ve got the size and the mindset, so it’s not far-fetched to say I can do it. I’m picking up everything pretty well so far. But it’s still early, so we’ll just have to wait and see how exactly they’ll use me.”

Paul is listed at 6-foot-1, 224 pounds. But the muscular player, who at last year’s combine ran a 4.45-second 40-yard dash, said he played at 228 pounds for much of the season, and maintaining that weight was a struggle despite a religious exercise regimen and healthy eating. At one point, he reached 234 pounds, and consulted with the team’s strength and conditioning coaches, who took his body fat percentage and came to the conclusion that Paul was still at a healthy, lean weight.

“They said 234 was my natural weight, so I can bulk up a little more to play tight end,” Paul said. “They want me at no more than 238, but no less than 232.”

Cooley is 6-foot-3, Davis 6-4 and Paulsen 6-5, so Paul would be the shortest tight end on the roster. But he believes that he still can be effective, both as a blocker and pass catcher.

“Cooley and Fred were reminding me that Aaron Hernandez of the Patriots is 6-1, 245, and he’s definitely doing fine,” Paul said. “I play physical anyway. It’s just a matter of picking up on all the techniques, and I got a little taste last year, and obviously, coach thought I did well.”


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Postby skinsfan#33 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:55 pm

I NEVER thought JB could be counted on for this season and thought that Lichten... was better fit to be the #1 backup for every interior OL spot than he would be as the starting LG. That is why I thought it was a failure during FA that we didn't at least upgrade one of those spots.

My plan forward if I was the team would be this:
- cut Brown (or put on the new IR spot)
- prepare to start the season with one of the of the OTs we have on the team at RT
- prepare Gettis or Ribeye to start at LG
- tell Lichten... that he will be our #1 backup for LG, C, or RG when (or if) he gets healthy.

Not concerned about our starters because I wasn't counting on CL or JB to be a starter. However, I am concerned for when our true (not CL or JB) starters get hurt. Our depth gets hurt because of this.
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Postby emoses14 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:55 pm

UK Skins Fan wrote:
emoses14 wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote:I'd just like to see a good offensive line. If they're all just out of kindergarten, or an old folks home, I just don't care. It would be nice to go into a season without having any worries about the o-line for once, but here we go again. We went 20 years without a QB - how much longer are we going to have to wait for an o-line?

Trying to see silver lining too, but just keep finding huge black thunderclouds.


End of October.

What happens then?


Then we find out if the back ups from last year and the draftees from this year and Kory and possibly Brown are able to actually form a cohesive starting line plus 1-2 good back ups.

IF it happens, it happens by the end of October, certainly not in the first game against the saints (I don't think).
I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

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Postby Red_One43 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:10 pm

SkinsJock wrote:The offensive line was a big concern at the begining of last season too


When you look at it from that perspective we are in better shape today with what we were at this time last year.

LT-Trent is in the best shape of his career and showing it early in camp.

LG-Kory is not 100% (but could be by OD), but we have Hurt who has starting experience and was serviceable. He is better than he was last year. We have a Leribeus as our draft pick who can fill in and maybe take over during the season.

C-Monty (who doesn't have to worry about shifting to guard like last year) is backed up by LeRibeus who has to be better than Cook.

RG- Chester is expected to improve his second year starting in a ZBS. We have Gettis, another draft pick, who might tough to keep on the bench. He has ZBS experience from Iowa.

LT - Brown is on the PUP which is better than relying on him like last year and faltering. We have Polumbus - serviceable and Willie Smith - promising - both with starters experience.

Not great, but clearly better than we were at this time last year.

This year, we also have a better QB than last year who can extend plays when things break down.

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Postby DarthMonk » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:15 pm

Red_One43 wrote:This year, we also have a better QB than last year who can extend plays when things break down.


A huge fact. Let's hope he is not overly taxed and let's hope Kyle isn't overly daring in exposing him to big hits. A certain Manning made up for a lot of O-linemen over the years.

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Postby Kilmer72 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:29 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:The offensive line was a big concern at the begining of last season too


When you look at it from that perspective we are in better shape today with what we were at this time last year.

LT-Trent is in the best shape of his career and showing it early in camp.

LG-Kory is not 100% (but could be by OD), but we have Hurt who has starting experience and was serviceable. He is better than he was last year. We have a Leribeus as our draft pick who can fill in and maybe take over during the season.

C-Monty (who doesn't have to worry about shifting to guard like last year) is backed up by LeRibeus who has to be better than Cook.

RG- Chester is expected to improve his second year starting in a ZBS. We have Gettis, another draft pick, who might tough to keep on the bench. He has ZBS experience from Iowa.

LT - Brown is on the PUP which is better than relying on him like last year and faltering. We have Polumbus - serviceable and Willie Smith - promising - both with starters experience.

Not great, but clearly better than we were at this time last year.

This year, we also have a better QB than last year who can extend plays when things break down.


I agree... Although, I am not expecting miracles from RG3 in his first year.
I expect teams to send the sink and see how he does.

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Postby riggofan » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:39 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:I NEVER thought JB could be counted on for this season and thought that Lichten... was better fit to be the #1 backup for every interior OL spot than he would be as the starting LG. That is why I thought it was a failure during FA that we didn't at least upgrade one of those spots.


Its hard to disagree with you there. I mean, one guy is perpetually injured and the other is coming off a serious ACL injury. Its hard to imagine how you're penciling either of them in as your starters for next year during the offseason.

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Postby 1niksder » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:49 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:I NEVER thought JB could be counted on for this season and thought that Lichten... was better fit to be the #1 backup for every interior OL spot than he would be as the starting LG. That is why I thought it was a failure during FA that we didn't at least upgrade one of those spots.


Brown missed what? Nine games last season, personally I was hoping Kory would unseat Monty as the starting center.

In the end he missed more games than Brown did last season. If healthy Licht would be a good depth guy but I don't think either of them had earned starting roles coming into camp, at least not based on 2011 performances.
The Redskins went after Demetress Bell shortly after free agency started but I don't think they had the plan to deal with CapGate in full swing at the time and lost out on him when he signed with Philthy.
Bell signed for almost $35M over 5 years, but the Feagles committed $13M in cap space the first two years (the two the Skins will lose space) of the deal. They didn't low ball him but they didn't go all "Fat Albert" for him either.

That may have been the only effect that capgate had on the team, but again only because they were still making sure they had all their "Ducks in a row" Looking back now (20/20 and all) had they released Brown with a post June 1st designation they would have only $100K to the 2012 cap by signing Bell to the same contract the he signed with the Beagles, the $9.6M hit next year would have been rough though.


skinsfan#33 wrote:My plan forward if I was the team would be this:
- cut Brown (or put on the new IR spot)


Might as well go ahead and cut him ($3.25M savings this year), IR only to releasing later and taking the full $4.5M hit.

skinsfan#33 wrote:My plan forward if I was the team would be this:
- prepare to start the season with one of the of the OTs we have on the team at RT
- prepare Gettis or Ribeye to start at LG


I think Will Smith will fill the starting role with Polumbus as his back up
Hurt will start at guard, with Gettis as his backup, LeRibeus should eventually replace Monty at center.

skinsfan#33 wrote:My plan forward if I was the team would be this:
- tell Lichten... that he will be our #1 backup for LG, C, or RG when (or if) he gets healthy.


Kory's health is the key here.... releasing him before game one would free up $1.25M+ and Gettis and LeRibeus make him less of a need.

skinsfan#33 wrote:Not concerned about our starters because I wasn't counting on CL or JB to be a starter. However, I am concerned for when our true (not CL or JB) starters get hurt. Our depth gets hurt because of this.


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