Bull...Greenbay got ROBBED by refs...

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Postby Irn-Bru » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:42 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
ACW wrote:You mean this one from 2 years ago? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlvOUG8nuZ4
Gus Johnson FTW! :lol:


By down, I meant towards the ground, not the other "down." Thanks for the video!


This is a bad argument. If you showed me a case where a DB failed to get the INT and the WR scored a touchdown, I could just as easily say "By 'interception,' I meant actually catching the ball, not letting the receiver catch it. Thanks for the example!" The question is what strategy is best to pick, not whether one strategy is successful when it's successful.
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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:29 am

Irn-Bru wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
ACW wrote:You mean this one from 2 years ago? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlvOUG8nuZ4
Gus Johnson FTW! :lol:


By down, I meant towards the ground, not the other "down." Thanks for the video!


This is a bad argument. If you showed me a case where a DB failed to get the INT and the WR scored a touchdown, I could just as easily say "By 'interception,' I meant actually catching the ball, not letting the receiver catch it. Thanks for the example!" The question is what strategy is best to pick, not whether one strategy is successful when it's successful.


That isn't an "argument," It's a video. My argument was the part before. I'm going more from basketball, which was my primary sport playing, but you try to catch the ball in a crowd and there are hands everywhere trying to grab it. To say catching the ball in a crowd is as easy as knocking it down ... in my experience ... which is what I have to go on, is unfathomable to me.

Second, stand up, turn your shoulder, and stick one hand out and see how far you can reach to knock down the pass. Now, hold both arms out and hold your hands as if you are going to catch the ball and see how far you can reach.

Third, watch the video of the play, I saw it on espn. He was on a mission to do one thing, prevent the O from catching it. Clearly had he reached out and knocked it down (the real down, not the one in the video), game over.

That's my argument, I'm not doing research which won't change experience and observation anyway.
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Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:34 am

If the defender DEFENDED the ball and deflected it away from the wr- game over, and NOT left in the hands of the refs. Scabs or no, you NEVER leave it up to the refs, umps, or judges. Not in any sport imo.
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Postby RayNAustin » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:17 am

I've heard the point about knocking the ball down rather than attempting to catch it. And that's a reasonable contention ... but under the circumstances, just another diversion from the main points.

1) the blatant offensive pass interference on Shields should not have been missed. That flag ends the game, irrespective of who "caught" the ball.

2) Jennings caught the ball, then Tate tried to wrestle it away ... it was not a simultaneous catch by any stretch of the imagination, though I will accept the notion that it is much less obvious at real time speed ... slow motion is a luxury the officials only enjoy when a play is reviewed.

3) this leads to the rules and guidelines governing instant reply and review. They are in desperate need of change. If the goal is to protect the integrity of the game, and ensure the proper calls are made, then every aspect of the play should be subject to scrutiny, and these "judgement calls", or calls that were not made cannot continue to be exempt from challenge and non-reversible under replay rules, and certainly not on scoring plays and inside 2 minutes where all calls are reviewed.

The error is rather glaring in my opinion when the claim is made that this "simultaneous catch" scenario is not subject to review and reversible due to it being a "judgement call". Fact is, most calls are "judgement calls". Is is not a judgement call relative to spotting the ball, which is subject to review and re-spotting the ball according to what replay video shows? And under the automatic review process which is in place on scoring plays, should not every aspect of the activity be reviewable?

This game is a perfect example of the flaws in the process. Clearly the video shows unquestionable offensive pass interference that had game outcome implication, and it's the arbitrary nature of the rules governing replay that prevents the correction of that obvious error that would have reversed the outcome of the game.

The entire situation is an affront to common sense as well as the integrity of the game.

The only drama missing here is a facebook picture of the TD signaling official wearing a Seahawk jersey, while mowing his lawn.

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Postby RayNAustin » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:22 am

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:If the defender DEFENDED the ball and deflected it away from the wr- game over, and NOT left in the hands of the refs. Scabs or no, you NEVER leave it up to the refs, umps, or judges. Not in any sport imo.


But this is the nature of ifs, ands, and buts. If he had swatted the ball down, and it bounced off another player's shoulder pads and landed in the awaiting arms of another Seahawk receiver .... then everyone would be saying ... "he should have caught the ball". :wink:

Fact is, the blatant nature of that "shove" Tate gave Shields is really the issue in my opinion. That should never have been missed, and that would have rendered all else moot.

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Postby skinsfan#33 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:04 pm

Looks like we won't have to worry about the replacement refs the weekend.

http://m.nbcsports.com/content/report-agreement-deal-between-nfl-officials-close
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Postby Bob 0119 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:27 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:Looks like we won't have to worry about the replacement refs the weekend.

http://m.nbcsports.com/content/report-agreement-deal-between-nfl-officials-close


No way. It's already Wednesday, there is no way, even if the deal gets done today. They still have to do conditioning tests, get them sized for new uniforms, assign the game/crew schedule, cover all the new rule changes for this year, never mind the flight and hotel scheduling

The replacements are definitely here this week and most likely here next week at least and that's provided they get the deal done today.
“If you grow up in metro Washington, you grow up a diehard Redskins fan. But if you hate your parents, you grow up a Cowboys fan.”-Jim Lachey

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Postby skinsfan#33 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:02 pm

Bob 0119 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Looks like we won't have to worry about the replacement refs the weekend.

http://m.nbcsports.com/content/report-agreement-deal-between-nfl-officials-close


No way. It's already Wednesday, there is no way, even if the deal gets done today. They still have to do conditioning tests, get them sized for new uniforms, assign the game/crew schedule, cover all the new rule changes for this year, never mind the flight and hotel scheduling

The replacements are definitely here this week and most likely here next week at least and that's provided they get the deal done today.

You need to listen to the radio or look on the internet. Some a1 rinsing if the snagging point is of the regularrefs will cover TOMORROWS game. Ifa deal gets done today out tomorrow the replacement refs will not cover this weekend games.

Condition test! LoL! MS isn't getting them ready for training camp.

Do you think theses guys aren't keeping themselves ready. It isn't like it wil be a surprise. I'm sure they had a schedule for all 17 weeks this season so once they had a dealall they had to do was book a flight and hotel room.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

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Postby Bob 0119 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:18 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Looks like we won't have to worry about the replacement refs the weekend.

http://m.nbcsports.com/content/report-agreement-deal-between-nfl-officials-close


No way. It's already Wednesday, there is no way, even if the deal gets done today. They still have to do conditioning tests, get them sized for new uniforms, assign the game/crew schedule, cover all the new rule changes for this year, never mind the flight and hotel scheduling

The replacements are definitely here this week and most likely here next week at least and that's provided they get the deal done today.

You need to listen to the radio or look on the internet. Some a1 rinsing if the snagging point is of the regularrefs will cover TOMORROWS game. Ifa deal gets done today out tomorrow the replacement refs will not cover this weekend games.

Condition test! LoL! MS isn't getting them ready for training camp.

Do you think theses guys aren't keeping themselves ready. It isn't like it wil be a surprise. I'm sure they had a schedule for all 17 weeks this season so once they had a dealall they had to do was book a flight and hotel room.


Gotcha, so the fact that they've been reporting for weeks that even after a deal is made it will still be a "week or two" goes right out the window because now they say they can be ready in three days?

I remain unconvinced and will believe it when I see it.
“If you grow up in metro Washington, you grow up a diehard Redskins fan. But if you hate your parents, you grow up a Cowboys fan.”-Jim Lachey

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Postby Irn-Bru » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:20 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
ACW wrote:You mean this one from 2 years ago? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlvOUG8nuZ4
Gus Johnson FTW! :lol:

By down, I meant towards the ground, not the other "down." Thanks for the video!

This is a bad argument. If you showed me a case where a DB failed to get the INT and the WR scored a touchdown, I could just as easily say "By 'interception,' I meant actually catching the ball, not letting the receiver catch it. Thanks for the example!" The question is what strategy is best to pick, not whether one strategy is successful when it's successful.


That isn't an "argument," It's a video.

It's an example showing how what you recommend can go just as badly as trying to intercept.

Second, stand up, turn your shoulder, and stick one hand out and see how far you can reach to knock down the pass. Now, hold both arms out and hold your hands as if you are going to catch the ball and see how far you can reach.

In a crowd like the one Jennings was in, trying to knock it down could have ended up being a gift to a WR's outstreched hands.

Third, watch the video of the play, I saw it on espn. He was on a mission to do one thing, prevent the O from catching it. Clearly had he reached out and knocked it down (the real down, not the one in the video), game over.

I've watched the video and I disagree that this is the case. A successful knock down would have meant no one else caught it, true enough. That's not a very interesting thing to say; neither is it what I'm questioning.
"Last year I thought we'd win it all. This year I know we will." - Rex Ryan, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Jets

"Dream team." - Vince Young, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Eagles

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Postby Countertrey » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:52 pm

When they plan these plays, 1 or 2 receivers go directly to the ball... all others go to the periphery, within 5 yards... specifically to be available for the deflection. For the Defense, if the pick is available, take it. Otherwise, the goal is to drive the ball vertically, straight to the ground. Jennings made the percentage play... note that I said MADE the percentage play. It's not his fault that the officials on the field, AND the replay official, were all blind.
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#33
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:28 pm

Bob 0119 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Looks like we won't have to worry about the replacement refs the weekend.

http://m.nbcsports.com/content/report-agreement-deal-between-nfl-officials-close


No way. It's already Wednesday, there is no way, even if the deal gets done today. They still have to do conditioning tests, get them sized for new uniforms, assign the game/crew schedule, cover all the new rule changes for this year, never mind the flight and hotel scheduling

The replacements are definitely here this week and most likely here next week at least and that's provided they get the deal done today.

You need to listen to the radio or look on the internet. Some a1 rinsing if the snagging point is of the regularrefs will cover TOMORROWS game. Ifa deal gets done today out tomorrow the replacement refs will not cover this weekend games.

Condition test! LoL! MS isn't getting them ready for training camp.

Do you think theses guys aren't keeping themselves ready. It isn't like it wil be a surprise. I'm sure they had a schedule for all 17 weeks this season so once they had a dealall they had to do was book a flight and hotel room.


Gotcha, so the fact that they've been reporting for weeks that even after a deal is made it will still be a "week or two" goes right out the window because now they say they can be ready in three days?

I remain unconvinced and will believe it when I see it.


That is fair.

You believes them when they said it would take a week or two and I never did. I believe that if (and that is a shaky if) they get the deal signed today, tomorrow, or even Friday we will see the regualar refs this weekend. The only thing that would mess that up is if someone complains about the Thursday night game being reffed with replacements and all the rest getting the normal guys.

But hey, we won't know who is right until it actually happens.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

#33
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:28 pm

Bob 0119 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Looks like we won't have to worry about the replacement refs the weekend.

http://m.nbcsports.com/content/report-agreement-deal-between-nfl-officials-close


No way. It's already Wednesday, there is no way, even if the deal gets done today. They still have to do conditioning tests, get them sized for new uniforms, assign the game/crew schedule, cover all the new rule changes for this year, never mind the flight and hotel scheduling

The replacements are definitely here this week and most likely here next week at least and that's provided they get the deal done today.

You need to listen to the radio or look on the internet. Some a1 rinsing if the snagging point is of the regularrefs will cover TOMORROWS game. Ifa deal gets done today out tomorrow the replacement refs will not cover this weekend games.

Condition test! LoL! MS isn't getting them ready for training camp.

Do you think theses guys aren't keeping themselves ready. It isn't like it wil be a surprise. I'm sure they had a schedule for all 17 weeks this season so once they had a dealall they had to do was book a flight and hotel room.


Gotcha, so the fact that they've been reporting for weeks that even after a deal is made it will still be a "week or two" goes right out the window because now they say they can be ready in three days?

I remain unconvinced and will believe it when I see it.


That is fair.

You believes them when they said it would take a week or two and I never did. I believe that if (and that is a shaky if) they get the deal signed today, tomorrow, or even Friday we will see the regualar refs this weekend. The only thing that would mess that up is if someone complains about the Thursday night game being reffed with replacements and all the rest getting the normal guys.

But hey, we won't know who is right until it actually happens.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

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Postby Bob 0119 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:23 am

Guess I was wrong, they are saying the regular refs will be calling tonight's game

I still don't see how, but that's what they're saying
“If you grow up in metro Washington, you grow up a diehard Redskins fan. But if you hate your parents, you grow up a Cowboys fan.”-Jim Lachey

#33
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:48 am

Bob 0119 wrote:Guess I was wrong, they are saying the regular refs will be calling tonight's game

I still don't see how, but that's what they're saying

But as you pointed out, it hasn't happened yet and they are saying of they can't pull it off for tonights game they won't use the regualar refs for this weekends game.

I understand why they would say that, but it isn't like every NFL game j is called by the same crew of refs, so there is always a disparity between crews. The best replacement crew can't be any worse than the worst regular group.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

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