Defense Plays Well, but Offense Plays Poorly and Vice Versa

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Defense Plays Well, but Offense Plays Poorly and Vice Versa

Postby Red_One43 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:15 am

The Atlanta game was another classic example of this phenomenum.

It seems that on one side of the ball, we do well, but the other side does not. We lack the complete game.

What is causing it?

Also include in this dicussion the phenomenum of the playing to the level of the opponent? Is this really happening?

The Atlanta game has this element as well. Our D could not stop the Rams out the gate, but hold the 4-0, high potent Falcon O scoreless for nearly two quarters. The D rose to the level of the comp.

Are our players really dogging it against the likes of the Rams, Bengals and second half of the Bucs?

Keep in mind, these phenomenums have translated through two coaching staffs, Zorn and Shanahan, so we aren't talking about the occasional let down that happens to all teams.
Last edited by Red_One43 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Red_One43 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:36 am

The bottomline for me, this is all coaching. I understand the problems Zorn had: a meddling FO and trying to do too many things: HC and OC.

That produced a circus.

It appears that Mike vs Kyle is producing a subtle circus that is not so subtle with the performance on the field.

Haz is Haz. Three years was supposed to be the charm. All the starters except Williams have at least two years.

Can't blame it on personnel or injuries. Look at the Rams! No less than three injured O linemen.

This is squarely on the coaches and the fix is squarely on the coaches.

The formula for success is already here:

-Edge in the turnover battle.
-Top ranked offense.
-Top ranked running game.
-Defense has scored 3 TDs aleady.
-A defense that went toe to toe with a 4-0, high potent offense with one offense tied behind its back.

But changes in the way the coaches do business is a must to become consistent winners.

Mike and Kyle - Kyle does not play Mike football - there must a be some change in the way these two do business.
Haz - Would the Atlanta game plan have worked against the Rams? Rushing 4 produced Fletch's INT in the ram game. Haz seems to go back to his old ways (blitz crazy) against teams he feels are weak.

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Re: Offense Plays Well, but Defense Plays Poorly and Vice Ve

Postby KazooSkinsFan » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:06 am

Red_One43 wrote:The Atlanta game was another classic example of this phenomenum.

What is causing it?


Play calling
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Re: Offense Plays Well, but Defense Plays Poorly and Vice Ve

Postby CanesSkins26 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:37 am

Red_One43 wrote:The Atlanta game was another classic example of this phenomenum.

What is causing it?

Also include in this dicussion the phenomenum of the playing to the level of the opponent? Is this really happening?

The Atlanta game has this element as well. Our D could not stop the Rams out the gate, but hold the 4-0, high potent Falcon O scoreless for nearly two quarters.

Are our players really dogging it against the likes of the Rams, Bengals and second half of the Bucs?

Keep in mind, these phenomenums have translated through two coacning staffs, Zorn and Shanahan, so we aren't talking about the occasional let down that happens to all teams.


This is what mediocre teams do. Our roster still has plenty of holes and lacks depth at many positions, and these types of up and down, and inconsistent performances are what we should expect until more upgrades to the roster are made.
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Postby Red_One43 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:36 am

^I agree that that is what medicore teams do.

Here's something to ponder.

The Skins have filled a lot of holes since 2010. The roster has improved since then. Are you seeing much difference in our coaching since 2010?

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Postby aswas71788 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:26 pm

I do not agree with you that the offense played well. I did not see it as any better than the defense. Both mediocre at best. Playing like they did yesterday, neither of them will win many games.

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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:33 pm

aswas71788 wrote:I do not agree with you that the offense played well. I did not see it as any better than the defense. Both mediocre at best. Playing like they did yesterday, neither of them will win many games.


Dude, we scored 40, 28, 38 and 24 points before this one. That wasn't playing well? Please...
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Postby Red_One43 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 3:49 pm

aswas71788 wrote:I do not agree with you that the offense played well. I did not see it as any better than the defense. Both mediocre at best. Playing like they did yesterday, neither of them will win many games.


I changed the title to "Defense Plays Well, but Offense Plays Poorly and Vice Versa."

I also made a couple of edits. Hope that that adds more clarity.

I am saying that the O played well in the Ram and Bengal losses and the D played poorly.

In the Atlanta loss, the D played well and the O played poorly. The offense played well in those games. But with one point to be made, the O only scored 3 points in the second half of the the Bucs game. Was it coaching (conservative play calling) or poor offensive play?

In the win against the Saints and Bucs, we didn't get a complete game by the D and had to hang on for dear life in both games.

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Re: Offense Plays Well, but Defense Plays Poorly and Vice Ve

Postby Red_One43 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:01 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:The Atlanta game was another classic example of this phenomenum.

What is causing it?


Play calling


I agree that it was play calling. How many times did we see the running game working last year and we never get into a rhythm to compliment it.

It seems like when we get a lead or the D is doing well, Kyle can't call plays well.

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Re: Offense Plays Well, but Defense Plays Poorly and Vice Ve

Postby KazooSkinsFan » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:18 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:The Atlanta game was another classic example of this phenomenum.

What is causing it?


Play calling


I agree that it was play calling. How many times did we see the running game working last year and we never get into a rhythm to compliment it.

It seems like when we get a lead or the D is doing well, Kyle can't call plays well.


Agreed, but I meant on defense too. Haslett in my view doesn't adapt well when his game plan isn't working. This week, he had a good game plan. Ultimately I think they just got tired. But it seems like when the game plan isn't working, he just keeps calling the same plays.
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Postby Bob 0119 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:40 pm

It was happening before Zorn. I remember it happening way back under Gibbs

Used to drive me crazy and is still my reason for thinking Greg Williams was over-rated as DC.
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Re: Offense Plays Well, but Defense Plays Poorly and Vice Ve

Postby Red_One43 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:48 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:The Atlanta game was another classic example of this phenomenum.

What is causing it?


Play calling


I agree that it was play calling. How many times did we see the running game working last year and we never get into a rhythm to compliment it.

It seems like when we get a lead or the D is doing well, Kyle can't call plays well.


Agreed, but I meant on defense too. Haslett in my view doesn't adapt well when his game plan isn't working. This week, he had a good game plan. Ultimately I think they just got tired. But it seems like when the game plan isn't working, he just keeps calling the same plays.


I am with you on defense as well. It seems when the offense takes the lead, Haz starts blitzing again because the lead gives him a cushion.
I am thinking this happened against the Bucs. I haven't seen the game again, but when there is one on one coverage for the deep routes, it usually means Haz is blitzing again.

I just don't believe it is the players not getting up for the games. I believe it is the coaching game plan. This has been going on even under Gibbs II as Bob pointed out in his post above.

The difference in Gibbs is He made adjustments such as the 2005 season when we were 5-6. Gibbs decided to run the ball down the next 5 opponents throats. The players rallied behind him and that team played beyond it's talent and darn near beat Seattle if a certain DB hangs onto a ball.

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Postby Red_One43 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:59 pm

Bob 0119 wrote:It was happening before Zorn. I remember it happening way back under Gibbs

Used to drive me crazy and is still my reason for thinking Greg Williams was over-rated as DC.


Haz has that blitz happy mentality like Williams. Both coordinators put their DBs out on islands that they can't cover. Remember Walt Harris? He is toast with us. The Niners put him in a Zone and he makes the Pro Bowl. Carlos Rogers claims that the Niner D is simple. They just play football and look at them.

Haz and Williams' schemes are complicated. Players can't play instinctively. To me, Haz and Williams often put the scheme before considering the talents of their players. To me, Williams is a very good DC and Haz a good one and at times, their game plans show it, but to me, they cause their defenses to rollercoaster like we see conistently with the Skins. Greg Blache was another Hard headed DC who did things his way period.

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Postby Deadskins » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:02 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
aswas71788 wrote:I do not agree with you that the offense played well. I did not see it as any better than the defense. Both mediocre at best. Playing like they did yesterday, neither of them will win many games.


Dude, we scored 40, 28, 38 and 24 points before this one. That wasn't playing well? Please...

And don't forget the missed FGs. Could have been 12 more points in there.
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Postby Red_One43 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:11 pm

I think that we have the talent to compete for a wild card berth this year. The Atlanta game showed it. New Orleans may not have a good D, but Monday Night Proved that that O is still potent, so I give the D credit for a good scheme in that game as well.

For those that think that we don't have the talent. Take a look at the Rams. Their O line is decimated and they have lots of holes to fill, but yet, they find themselves at 3-2 and having knocked off a previously undefeated Cardnal team. Two of their wins are against winning teams.

The Skins are better than its 2-3 record.

To me, the up and down play is due to the coaches with their complicated offensive and defensive play-books. So complicated that the D coordinator has no problem each week calling out players, in public, for missed assignments. If this is happening with two and three years of experience in this D. Simplifiy.

The offense is so complicated that Kyle can't get on the same sheet of music with Mike. This was a problem in 2010 and continues to be a problem. Mike said last year, we run the ball, we have been doing for 20 years. Yet, we were running the ball effectively on Sunday, but what happened - could not find the plays to compliment the run game. Saw that all of 2011.

This season is on the coaching game plan or lack of it.

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