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Postby RayNAustin » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:14 pm

Red_One43 wrote:This is one explanation on what Madieu Williams was thinking on that Cruz play. The film showed that Cruz never runs a go from the slot position. Cruz was lined up in the slot. Madieu saw that and was confident that Cruz would break off the route. The Skins were very conscious of the Giants marching down the field and kicking a FG, so Madieu was positioning himself to jump the route and possibly make the INT.

What was not known to the the person giving this explanation is the extent that Madieu was coached to watch for this tendency of Cruz. Madieu was responsible for Cruz deep, so it was his fault. Blame could also go to Wilson because he not only failed to get his hands on Cruz, as he turned to run with Cruz he seemed to open his hips awkward and quickly lost a step. It was said that Wilson should never have been over the slot guy because he is not physical enough. Williams being a veteran should have known when to turn and run and play the possibility of the deep ball, but the person giving the explanation kept emphasizing that Cruz never ran a go from the slot.


If that's true, it's probably because Cruz hasn't seen such an atrociously played coverage from the slot before.

If he was even thinking about jumping the rout Cruz was running, he ought to get cut, because that is the corner's option when he's got Safety help over the top. The safety is called that for a reason. In that situation, the absolute last thing that you can allow to happen ... let the guy get behind you, happened.

Go look at the play and watch it several times. Hall is covering Nicks one on one, and keeping Nicks in front of him ..... and I believe Williams was watching Eli, anticipating that he might throw to Nicks in single coverage, where he might jump that rout, because it was clear that Nicks wasn't running a go rout. And before he even gets moving, Cruz already has Wilson beat and is on top of him and Williams is dead meat at that point and Cruz knows it. By the time the ball is released, Williams is behind both Cruz AND Wilson, when he should have been in front of both.

Williams sucks ... and Wilson ain't much better when you see how fast Cruz got past him.

Red_One43 wrote:It seems to me that the person giving this explanation was saying that the coaches were also at fault because, he felt that Madieu was coached to look for Cruz to break off the route and the fact that Wilson being over the slot receiver.

Here's the issue with my source. I hearded this on either ESPN980 or the 106.7 The Fan. I came in after the guest was speaking. This wasn't a random caller, it was a reporter or someone who has inside football knowledge, who was a guest on the one of the shows. I flip back and forth on the stations, so and can't remember which station I was listening to at the time. This was a couple of days ago.

Perhaps someone else heard it as well and can elaborate or heard this from another source.

This the best I can find on the internet. I did find another person in this link from a mesage baord that they have read that Cruz never runs a go form the slot.

http://cpnd.proboards.com/index.cgi?boa ... 377&page=1


The coaches would not be coaching him to stand there like a statue ... and if they are, they need to go.

The more likely scenario is what I suspect ... that Williams was splitting his attention between Cruz and Nicks ... he's watching Eli instead of Cruz, and Eli looks him off of Cruz just enough to freeze him, allowing Cruz's speed to blow by him ... since Wilson was already beaten like a Salvation Army drum, the moment Cruz sees Williams flat fotted, it's pitch and catch for the TD.

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Postby RayNAustin » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:17 pm

Red_One43 wrote:This is one explanation on what Madieu Williams was thinking on that Cruz play. The film showed that Cruz never runs a go from the slot position. Cruz was lined up in the slot. Madieu saw that and was confident that Cruz would break off the route. The Skins were very conscious of the Giants marching down the field and kicking a FG, so Madieu was positioning himself to jump the route and possibly make the INT.

What was not known to the the person giving this explanation is the extent that Madieu was coached to watch for this tendency of Cruz. Madieu was responsible for Cruz deep, so it was his fault. Blame could also go to Wilson because he not only failed to get his hands on Cruz, as he turned to run with Cruz he seemed to open his hips awkward and quickly lost a step. It was said that Wilson should never have been over the slot guy because he is not physical enough. Williams being a veteran should have known when to turn and run and play the possibility of the deep ball, but the person giving the explanation kept emphasizing that Cruz never ran a go from the slot.


If that's true, it's probably because Cruz hasn't seen such an atrociously played coverage from the slot before.

If he was even thinking about jumping the rout Cruz was running, he ought to get cut, because that is the corner's option when he's got Safety help over the top. The safety is called that for a reason. and cannot allow the guy to get behind him.

If you go back and look at the play, you'll see Hall in man coverage on Nicks ... Williams is positioned about half way between Nicks and Cruz .. Cruz blows by Wilson, and Williams doesn't even break until it's too late. I think he was keeping position to jump Nick's rout, as he was anticipating Eli to throw to single coverage ... Eli may even have froze him by looking at Nicks ... that hesitation is all that was needed for Cruz to blow by him. He even ended up behind both Cruz and Wilson!!

Red_One43 wrote:It seems to me that the person giving this explanation was saying that the coaches were also at fault because, he felt that Madieu was coached to look for Cruz to break off the route and the fact that Wilson being over the slot receiver.

Here's the issue with my source. I hearded this on either ESPN980 or the 106.7 The Fan. I came in after the guest was speaking. This wasn't a random caller, it was a reporter or someone who has inside football knowledge, who was a guest on the one of the shows. I flip back and forth on the stations, so and can't remember which station I was listening to at the time. This was a couple of days ago.

Perhaps someone else heard it as well and can elaborate or heard this from another source.

This the best I can find on the internet. I did find another person in this link from a mesage baord that they have read that Cruz never runs a go form the slot.

http://cpnd.proboards.com/index.cgi?boa ... 377&page=1


The coaches would not be coaching him to stand there like a statue ... and if they are, they need to go.

The more likely scenario is what I suspect ... that Williams was splitting his attention between Cruz and Hall's guy Nicks ... he's watching Eli instead of Cruz, and Eli looks him off of Cruz just enough to freeze him, and Cruz is off to the races since Wilson was already beaten like Salvation Army drum.

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Postby rskin72 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:01 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
rskin72 wrote:We did know our secondary was suspect during the preseason. We knew our front 7 was stout. We thought our defense would be the better of the two sides....not really fully appreciating how special RGIII was, nor how much of a beast mighy mo would be.


Is our front 7 stout? The front seven is stout against the run (you did say this later in your post), but they are part of the problem with the coverage (you didn't say this). A lack of a pass run. Blame it on injuries to Rak and Carriker (you didn't do this, but others do), but there were games last year when we saw the same problems with both of them playing. Riley will probably never be a good cover guy and Fletch, covering the TEs in the middle has never been an optimum match up.

At least last year in some games, the front 7 did put enough pressure to make our secondary look better especially in the two Giant games. In the two Cowboy games, the front 7 did not generate much of a pass rush.

Why the massive drop off in performance? Given the amount of time that Landry who cannot cover anyway and Atogwe spent on the sidelines is our secondary that much worse than last year? Add Madieu and you basically have the same starters for most of the season. Is Madieu an upgrade over Doughty? I have never seen Doughty get a pick 6.

Why isn't the Front 7 getting the pressure it got last year, which wasn't much if you take out the 7 sack Ram game?

Basically, the same players as last year (add Jenkins). Definitely the same DC!

I won't try to debate you on your fire Haz at the end of the season, because you got a good ammo supply. :)

For me:

The only way, I say fire Haz is if Wade Philips is available and he won't be. Haz is slowly making adjustments with his D and toning down his agressiveness. The last two games point to him getting it that he must do things differently. He maybe slow reacting to what is, but he is reacting and I beleive that we will see an improvement next week by beating the Steelers on their home turf.



Sorry I did not get back to you on this earlier, am on travel and have not had a chance to respond.....

Actually I did mention lack of a pass rush as one reason that good NFL QB's look at our D and salivate. Concur with your thoughts on Riley and Fletcher in coverage, though.....and with London, it is not only his speed that is a factor, but also his height especially against the new trend to basketball forwards playing at the TE position.

Yea, firing Haz as a scapegoat is not what I would like to see (as happened in Philly last week).....but if there is a better candidate available, and I have to believe that there is a D coach somewhere that would be better than Haz at this point....I would like to see that change take place.

And....I absolutely DO believe we can beat the Steelers in their home....just not sure that the D will be the side of the ball that will provide us with the best opportunity for the W. Think that defensive success vs the Steelers will also hinge on the continuing Big Ben vs O Coord. issues that are being seen in Pittsburgh. And, as with the other games thudfar this season.....give RGIII a close game and the ball at the end, and I like our chances......
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Postby rskin72 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:02 pm

Double Post....
Last edited by rskin72 on Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Red_One43 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:35 am

RayNAustin wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:This is one explanation on what Madieu Williams was thinking on that Cruz play. The film showed that Cruz never runs a go from the slot position. Cruz was lined up in the slot. Madieu saw that and was confident that Cruz would break off the route. The Skins were very conscious of the Giants marching down the field and kicking a FG, so Madieu was positioning himself to jump the route and possibly make the INT.

What was not known to the the person giving this explanation is the extent that Madieu was coached to watch for this tendency of Cruz. Madieu was responsible for Cruz deep, so it was his fault. Blame could also go to Wilson because he not only failed to get his hands on Cruz, as he turned to run with Cruz he seemed to open his hips awkward and quickly lost a step. It was said that Wilson should never have been over the slot guy because he is not physical enough. Williams being a veteran should have known when to turn and run and play the possibility of the deep ball, but the person giving the explanation kept emphasizing that Cruz never ran a go from the slot.


If that's true, it's probably because Cruz hasn't seen such an atrociously played coverage from the slot before.

If he was even thinking about jumping the rout Cruz was running, he ought to get cut, because that is the corner's option when he's got Safety help over the top. The safety is called that for a reason. and cannot allow the guy to get behind him.

If you go back and look at the play, you'll see Hall in man coverage on Nicks ... Williams is positioned about half way between Nicks and Cruz .. Cruz blows by Wilson, and Williams doesn't even break until it's too late. I think he was keeping position to jump Nick's rout, as he was anticipating Eli to throw to single coverage ... Eli may even have froze him by looking at Nicks ... that hesitation is all that was needed for Cruz to blow by him. He even ended up behind both Cruz and Wilson!!

Red_One43 wrote:It seems to me that the person giving this explanation was saying that the coaches were also at fault because, he felt that Madieu was coached to look for Cruz to break off the route and the fact that Wilson being over the slot receiver.

Here's the issue with my source. I hearded this on either ESPN980 or the 106.7 The Fan. I came in after the guest was speaking. This wasn't a random caller, it was a reporter or someone who has inside football knowledge, who was a guest on the one of the shows. I flip back and forth on the stations, so and can't remember which station I was listening to at the time. This was a couple of days ago.

Perhaps someone else heard it as well and can elaborate or heard this from another source.

This the best I can find on the internet. I did find another person in this link from a mesage baord that they have read that Cruz never runs a go form the slot.

http://cpnd.proboards.com/index.cgi?boa ... 377&page=1


The coaches would not be coaching him to stand there like a statue ... and if they are, they need to go.

The more likely scenario is what I suspect ... that Williams was splitting his attention between Cruz and Hall's guy Nicks ... he's watching Eli instead of Cruz, and Eli looks him off of Cruz just enough to freeze him, and Cruz is off to the races since Wilson was already beaten like Salvation Army drum.


Your explanation is quite plausible as to what Williams was doing. Hall says that they just got beat and the coaches say, Williams got caught flat-footed. Explanations that we can see with our own eyes, but what happend in that defensive meeting before the D took the field? The guest on the radio show was trying to give us what he found out. True, I didn't get the guest's name, but I listen to ESPN980 and 106.7 The Fan often enough to know when the hosts are talking to someone who is credible. I also posted that link to the another fan site where members also read that Cruz never runs a go from the slot.

The guest wasn't saying that the coaches coached him to stand like a statute. The guest was saying that the coaches told him that the chances are slim that Cruz goes deep so watch for the short route. They weren't telling him that he has no responsibility for the deep ball, it is understood that the safety always does. No one is absolving Madieu. The question is did the coaches, knowing that they have a back up for a starting safety, who is new to the defense, make sure that Madieu had his prioritites straight.

I posted this in the Haslett thread, because if true, it is a knock on Haz or Coach Morris or both. I think most of us would agree that a DC coordinator should be saying "Just Don't Get Beat Deep! Period!."

People keep saying that these kind of things don't happen to the good teams. Giants blitzed and got burned by Sanatana - that happens to every team, but a fundamental error like Madieu's and the other crazy stuff that has happened this year - penalties and the like - point not only to the players, but the coaches - maybe your ingredient of "benching" is needed. Maybe, we need to simplify the D for its "back up" starting secondary personnel.

Here's a request for you - When you watch the All -22 count the number of times that Cruz lines in the slot and key on Madieu to see if he is in that same coverage and watch what he does and Cruz does. This will give you more insight as to why Williams didn't do what he was supposed to do.

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Postby RayNAustin » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:24 am

Red_One43 wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:This is one explanation on what Madieu Williams was thinking on that Cruz play. The film showed that Cruz never runs a go from the slot position. Cruz was lined up in the slot. Madieu saw that and was confident that Cruz would break off the route. The Skins were very conscious of the Giants marching down the field and kicking a FG, so Madieu was positioning himself to jump the route and possibly make the INT.

What was not known to the the person giving this explanation is the extent that Madieu was coached to watch for this tendency of Cruz. Madieu was responsible for Cruz deep, so it was his fault. Blame could also go to Wilson because he not only failed to get his hands on Cruz, as he turned to run with Cruz he seemed to open his hips awkward and quickly lost a step. It was said that Wilson should never have been over the slot guy because he is not physical enough. Williams being a veteran should have known when to turn and run and play the possibility of the deep ball, but the person giving the explanation kept emphasizing that Cruz never ran a go from the slot.


If that's true, it's probably because Cruz hasn't seen such an atrociously played coverage from the slot before.

If he was even thinking about jumping the rout Cruz was running, he ought to get cut, because that is the corner's option when he's got Safety help over the top. The safety is called that for a reason. and cannot allow the guy to get behind him.

If you go back and look at the play, you'll see Hall in man coverage on Nicks ... Williams is positioned about half way between Nicks and Cruz .. Cruz blows by Wilson, and Williams doesn't even break until it's too late. I think he was keeping position to jump Nick's rout, as he was anticipating Eli to throw to single coverage ... Eli may even have froze him by looking at Nicks ... that hesitation is all that was needed for Cruz to blow by him. He even ended up behind both Cruz and Wilson!!

Red_One43 wrote:It seems to me that the person giving this explanation was saying that the coaches were also at fault because, he felt that Madieu was coached to look for Cruz to break off the route and the fact that Wilson being over the slot receiver.

Here's the issue with my source. I hearded this on either ESPN980 or the 106.7 The Fan. I came in after the guest was speaking. This wasn't a random caller, it was a reporter or someone who has inside football knowledge, who was a guest on the one of the shows. I flip back and forth on the stations, so and can't remember which station I was listening to at the time. This was a couple of days ago.

Perhaps someone else heard it as well and can elaborate or heard this from another source.

This the best I can find on the internet. I did find another person in this link from a mesage baord that they have read that Cruz never runs a go form the slot.

http://cpnd.proboards.com/index.cgi?boa ... 377&page=1


The coaches would not be coaching him to stand there like a statue ... and if they are, they need to go.

The more likely scenario is what I suspect ... that Williams was splitting his attention between Cruz and Hall's guy Nicks ... he's watching Eli instead of Cruz, and Eli looks him off of Cruz just enough to freeze him, and Cruz is off to the races since Wilson was already beaten like Salvation Army drum.


Your explanation is quite plausible as to what Williams was doing. Hall says that they just got beat and the coaches say, Williams got caught flat-footed. Explanations that we can see with our own eyes, but what happend in that defensive meeting before the D took the field? The guest on the radio show was trying to give us what he found out. True, I didn't get the guest's name, but I listen to ESPN980 and 106.7 The Fan often enough to know when the hosts are talking to someone who is credible. I also posted that link to the another fan site where members also read that Cruz never runs a go from the slot.

The guest wasn't saying that the coaches coached him to stand like a statute. The guest was saying that the coaches told him that the chances are slim that Cruz goes deep so watch for the short route. They weren't telling him that he has no responsibility for the deep ball, it is understood that the safety always does. No one is absolving Madieu. The question is did the coaches, knowing that they have a back up for a starting safety, who is new to the defense, make sure that Madieu had his prioritites straight.

I posted this in the Haslett thread, because if true, it is a knock on Haz or Coach Morris or both. I think most of us would agree that a DC coordinator should be saying "Just Don't Get Beat Deep! Period!."

People keep saying that these kind of things don't happen to the good teams. Giants blitzed and got burned by Sanatana - that happens to every team, but a fundamental error like Madieu's and the other crazy stuff that has happened this year - penalties and the like - point not only to the players, but the coaches - maybe your ingredient of "benching" is needed. Maybe, we need to simplify the D for its "back up" starting secondary personnel.

Here's a request for you - When you watch the All -22 count the number of times that Cruz lines in the slot and key on Madieu to see if he is in that same coverage and watch what he does and Cruz does. This will give you more insight as to why Williams didn't do what he was supposed to do.


The problem with simplifying is that in this particular case, they were running a very common under-over double, and there really is no way to simplify that. This demands that the safety keep the play in front of him, but Williams didn't even keep Wilson, the under guy in front of him .. and ended up behind Cruz and Wilson ... and he's our free safety? We're in trouble.

What I see is that he didn't even turn his hips to start running until Cruz was about 3 yards from him with Wilson chasing, and at that point he's toast ... D. Green would be toast, and Williams doesn't have great speed. Whatever was going through his head, it was terrible play ... he did the one thing you can't do, let the play get behind you.

What he should have have done once Cruz got near him in a full sprint and he was flat footed is to cut off the rout and grab him ... tackle him, whatever... take the flag, but don't try to run parallel to him like he did ... so he made two errors.

I cannot find any legit reason why he'd let Cruz get on top of him like that other than him being a complete knuckle-head that might be better off on the sidelines than on the field.

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Postby Deadskins » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:36 am

RayNAustin wrote:What he should have have done once Cruz got near him in a full sprint and he was flat footed is to cut off the rout and grab him ... tackle him, whatever... take the flag, but don't try to run parallel to him like he did ... so he made two errors.

That's what I said.
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Postby Red_One43 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:52 pm

RayNAustin wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:This is one explanation on what Madieu Williams was thinking on that Cruz play. The film showed that Cruz never runs a go from the slot position. Cruz was lined up in the slot. Madieu saw that and was confident that Cruz would break off the route. The Skins were very conscious of the Giants marching down the field and kicking a FG, so Madieu was positioning himself to jump the route and possibly make the INT.

What was not known to the the person giving this explanation is the extent that Madieu was coached to watch for this tendency of Cruz. Madieu was responsible for Cruz deep, so it was his fault. Blame could also go to Wilson because he not only failed to get his hands on Cruz, as he turned to run with Cruz he seemed to open his hips awkward and quickly lost a step. It was said that Wilson should never have been over the slot guy because he is not physical enough. Williams being a veteran should have known when to turn and run and play the possibility of the deep ball, but the person giving the explanation kept emphasizing that Cruz never ran a go from the slot.


If that's true, it's probably because Cruz hasn't seen such an atrociously played coverage from the slot before.

If he was even thinking about jumping the rout Cruz was running, he ought to get cut, because that is the corner's option when he's got Safety help over the top. The safety is called that for a reason. and cannot allow the guy to get behind him.

If you go back and look at the play, you'll see Hall in man coverage on Nicks ... Williams is positioned about half way between Nicks and Cruz .. Cruz blows by Wilson, and Williams doesn't even break until it's too late. I think he was keeping position to jump Nick's rout, as he was anticipating Eli to throw to single coverage ... Eli may even have froze him by looking at Nicks ... that hesitation is all that was needed for Cruz to blow by him. He even ended up behind both Cruz and Wilson!!

Red_One43 wrote:It seems to me that the person giving this explanation was saying that the coaches were also at fault because, he felt that Madieu was coached to look for Cruz to break off the route and the fact that Wilson being over the slot receiver.

Here's the issue with my source. I hearded this on either ESPN980 or the 106.7 The Fan. I came in after the guest was speaking. This wasn't a random caller, it was a reporter or someone who has inside football knowledge, who was a guest on the one of the shows. I flip back and forth on the stations, so and can't remember which station I was listening to at the time. This was a couple of days ago.

Perhaps someone else heard it as well and can elaborate or heard this from another source.

This the best I can find on the internet. I did find another person in this link from a mesage baord that they have read that Cruz never runs a go form the slot.

http://cpnd.proboards.com/index.cgi?boa ... 377&page=1


The coaches would not be coaching him to stand there like a statue ... and if they are, they need to go.

The more likely scenario is what I suspect ... that Williams was splitting his attention between Cruz and Hall's guy Nicks ... he's watching Eli instead of Cruz, and Eli looks him off of Cruz just enough to freeze him, and Cruz is off to the races since Wilson was already beaten like Salvation Army drum.


Your explanation is quite plausible as to what Williams was doing. Hall says that they just got beat and the coaches say, Williams got caught flat-footed. Explanations that we can see with our own eyes, but what happend in that defensive meeting before the D took the field? The guest on the radio show was trying to give us what he found out. True, I didn't get the guest's name, but I listen to ESPN980 and 106.7 The Fan often enough to know when the hosts are talking to someone who is credible. I also posted that link to the another fan site where members also read that Cruz never runs a go from the slot.

The guest wasn't saying that the coaches coached him to stand like a statute. The guest was saying that the coaches told him that the chances are slim that Cruz goes deep so watch for the short route. They weren't telling him that he has no responsibility for the deep ball, it is understood that the safety always does. No one is absolving Madieu. The question is did the coaches, knowing that they have a back up for a starting safety, who is new to the defense, make sure that Madieu had his prioritites straight.

I posted this in the Haslett thread, because if true, it is a knock on Haz or Coach Morris or both. I think most of us would agree that a DC coordinator should be saying "Just Don't Get Beat Deep! Period!."

People keep saying that these kind of things don't happen to the good teams. Giants blitzed and got burned by Sanatana - that happens to every team, but a fundamental error like Madieu's and the other crazy stuff that has happened this year - penalties and the like - point not only to the players, but the coaches - maybe your ingredient of "benching" is needed. Maybe, we need to simplify the D for its "back up" starting secondary personnel.

Here's a request for you - When you watch the All -22 count the number of times that Cruz lines in the slot and key on Madieu to see if he is in that same coverage and watch what he does and Cruz does. This will give you more insight as to why Williams didn't do what he was supposed to do.


The problem with simplifying is that in this particular case, they were running a very common under-over double, and there really is no way to simplify that. This demands that the safety keep the play in front of him, but Williams didn't even keep Wilson, the under guy in front of him .. and ended up behind Cruz and Wilson ... and he's our free safety? We're in trouble.

What I see is that he didn't even turn his hips to start running until Cruz was about 3 yards from him with Wilson chasing, and at that point he's toast ... D. Green would be toast, and Williams doesn't have great speed. Whatever was going through his head, it was terrible play ... he did the one thing you can't do, let the play get behind you.

What he should have have done once Cruz got near him in a full sprint and he was flat footed is to cut off the rout and grab him ... tackle him, whatever... take the flag, but don't try to run parallel to him like he did ... so he made two errors.

I cannot find any legit reason why he'd let Cruz get on top of him like that other than him being a complete knuckle-head that might be better off on the sidelines than on the field.


One thing is true - Williams violated the rules of fundamental football. Even if he tought he could jump a route, he still needs to seel that he is dropping back and force Cruz into a bad read. I agree it comes down to being a knuckle-head on that play.

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Postby Burgundy&Wha? » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:03 pm

If Dallas dumps their coaching staff at the end of the season, Rob Ryan would be a good pick-up for DC.

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Postby Red_One43 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:10 pm

Burgundy&Wha? wrote:If Dallas dumps their coaching staff at the end of the season, Rob Ryan would be a good pick-up for DC.


Rob is as bad as Haz with the aggressive blitzing and ego! No thanks!

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Postby Red_One43 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:13 pm

Giants almost made Williams look routine on that Dez TD that was overturned. Why does a corner bite on an out and up in that situation.

This is probably why Haz doesn't bench Willliams - who do you replace him with when other teams to do the knuckle-head as well?

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Postby Deadskins » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:42 pm

Burgundy&Wha? wrote:If Dallas dumps their coaching staff at the end of the season, Rob Ryan would be a good pick-up for DC.

God, no, please. I want nothing to do with those Ryan tubs of goo.
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Postby the poster » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:46 pm

Red_One43 wrote:Giants almost made Williams look routine on that Dez TD that was overturned. Why does a corner bite on an out and up in that situation.

This is probably why Haz doesn't bench Willliams - who do you replace him with when other teams to do the knuckle-head as well?


they should go back to a 4-3 with a DL of Kerrigan-Jenkins-Cofield-Orakpo next year.

Their best pass rushers (who are marginal talents, in reality) spend 20% of pass plays doing something other than rushing the passer. They're in coverage.

Orakpo and Kerrigan best serve this team rushing the passer on every pass play. They team needs all the help they can get and Kerrigan dropping back in the flat is not helping them. They were both college DE's who I think would be more productive pass rushers if they were on the line.

Cofield was never a NT in the pros. He's a good 4-3 DT and a marginal 3-4 NT. Put him where he can be most effective.

Who runs the defense isnt important. They need better players first. And then they need to put those players in the right positions to succeed second. Then they can consider a different DC.

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Postby Red_One43 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:07 pm

John Keim on Simplifying the Defense like the Steelers
2.Talked to a very knowledgeable NFL guy after the game and his point summed up some differences between the teams. The Redskins and Steelers run the same defense, right? Well, this person said that’s true only to a point. The Steelers are much more basic on early downs and it shows in their execution. While they will change things up and they will blitz a lot, most of their so-called exotic looks come on third down. They rarely learn anything new. It’s a major key to why they execute so well. That, and having a top nose tackle in Casey Hampton – who had major penetration early in the game to cause a loss. This person didn’t think either secondary was anything special and actually thought the Redskins front three was better. But they have Hampton. The Steelers also have a big front and did a good job diagnosing plays and causing problems. The Redskins hit them a couple times but could not stick with the run because of the score. I did like how physical the Steelers played them; probably more than any other D this year. I will say, Alfred Morris matched their physical style. I have a feeling he likes that sort of game.


This is what I am talking about in simplifying the Defense. Haslett prides himself on being so complicated. The players are not playing on instinct.

The Steelers secondary minus Troy is nothing special yet they continue to bring it each week. They are not as good as in the past, but they always play the Steeler way - aggressively.

Finally, this is no secret - you need a dominant NT for the 3-4 to be successful as hard a Cofield works and improves, he will never be that dominant NT.
Last edited by Red_One43 on Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Red_One43 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:28 pm

John Keim on the Talent of the Defense

1.The Redskins’ defensive failures are an organizational failure. They wanted to build a 3-4 defense that was ultra-aggressive, modeling them after Pittsburgh. But if you want to blame talent as the problem, then you can only do one thing after that: blame the guys bringing in that talent. But all I heard from scouts and other evaluators before the season was how much they liked their front seven. A good front seven should be enough to cover up certain sins. The Steelers did not have their best player in the secondary (safety Troy Polamalu) yet they still shut down the Redskins. Heck, Ryan Clark is very good vs. the run, but not as strong against the pass. So you can make the case that the only other strong starter in this group is corner Ike Taylor. Yet the Steelers still flourish. The Redskins do not. They don’t hang their hats lately on shutting teams down; rather, they hang it on not giving up a ton of points to good offenses – New Orleans, New York. Everyone wants to blame the cap penalties. OK, that hurt. But how many times were they hurt by their signings in the past? So there’s no guarantee anything in free agency would have worked. Maybe it would have, but to only blame that is just wrong. I think if we’ve learned anything in the Dan Snyder era it’s that free agency is not the cure all.


The only answer to this I see Shanny and Haz saying, we are on a 5 year plan. In five years, we will have our players to fit our system. We are not going to fit a system to our players. On his show Shanny praised the Steelers for having the same defense for 20 years. This is Shanny's goal to have the same defense all 4 or 5 years here. 3-4 is here to stay.

So what about the meantime? It looks like they are just making do and blaming the past mismanagment.

As long as Shanahan is here, Haz is here with him.


Shanahan: We are going to do this the right way. [/list]

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