Skins Steelers postgame thread

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Postby SkinsJock » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:42 pm

riggofan wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:Like Warmother posted and others have been saying for a few games now ...

BOTH Kyle and Jim have got to better utilize and game plan to suit the players they have

AND NOT CONTINUE to try and see if the plays they want their players to execute will work

THEY DON"T WORK


BOTH Kyle and Jim have to do their jobs better with the players they have

putting a franchise QB in harms way should have gotten the idiot that was responsible fired


Sorry I just don't get most of your post, my friend.

no worries - let me make my point
No doubt Kyle needed to make some adjustments to what LeBeau was doing, but 10 dropped passes was probably more of an issue. Either way, its not like the Skins offense couldn't move the ball.

And as for putting a franchise QB in harms way, I just don't get this stuff. We drafted RGIII to help us win games. He's in harm's way every time he is on the field. I'm not saying we need to be completely reckless with him, but he's our best offensive weapon. We HAVE to be willing to take some risks with him.

I know what play you're upset about, and it sounds like Shanny himself agrees it was stupid in hindsight. Oh well. At least they're out there trying to make things happen. We're only complaining about the play because it didn't work. When they rolled RGIII out and he ran 73 yards for a TD a couple weeks back, nobody was on here saying, "WHAT IDIOT LET OUR FRANCHISE QB RUN THE BALL??? HE MIGHT GET HURT!!!!!"


not quite what I mean't -

Kyle did not adjust the plays to what suited - the running plays that he kept calling were not working - Harrison is too good - Pittsburgh does not have a good running defense but we made them look better than they were by not taking what they (Pitt) were not good at - that defense can pursue like crazy

I agree - we do have to take some risks with RG3 but that play should not have been called - RG3 can draw coverage but he should not have been 'exposed' like he was

RG3 can run but he understands that if the hit is coming he has to try and avoid it - there was no way that he could have avoided the hit in that situation

don't even get me started on defense - i'm a 3-4 fan - I think it is a better defense

If this keeps up - Haslett will NOT be DC here next season
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

HAIL


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Postby Red_One43 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:51 pm

riggofan wrote:At least they're out there trying to make things happen. We're only complaining about the play because it didn't work. When they rolled RGIII out and he ran 73 yards for a TD a couple weeks back, nobody was on here saying, "WHAT IDIOT LET OUR FRANCHISE QB RUN THE BALL??? HE MIGHT GET HURT!!!!!"


As far as your harms way point, I am in full agreement with you. Run RGIII Run, but get rid of the option pitch.

As far as your statement, "At least they're out there trying to make things happen?"

I think that you are being a little too casual in defending the use of that play. With that play, an OC, doesn't want to "try" to make things happen. He wants to be smart about using it. This play had no chance to work. Steelers had two guys back there.

Did RGIII audible into that play because he read "man" coverage? If so RGIII's fault. Folks who can watch the replay of the game can tell if he audibled.

Was that play called by the OC becfore leaving the huddle without knowing what coverage the Steelers were in? If this is the case, then that call at that time was ridiculous.

Did RGIII have the option to check out of it, if he read zone? We'll never know the truth on this one, but when I look at tendencies of RGIII and trendencies of Kyle, I would say, RGIII had no option to check out of it.

It is a great play to have in the playbook! As Mike said, he was successful with it with Elway and Young. It was the wrong situation and wrong team to use it on - Should have saved it for the Panthers game.

The 76 yd TD was a run, but it wasn't a called run. RGIII saw the blitzers take the same game and off he went. Not a good comparison to a play were an OC leaves his QB hung out to dry on call against the wrong defensive scheme and against a highly disciplined team.

But, I still agree with you that RGIII being in "harm's way" is not a factor and should not be.

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Postby Kilmer72 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:02 pm

Redskin in Canada wrote:Most people around here thought that the predictions of 2 - 14 and worst place in the NFC East were exaggerated. They were NOT!

That is exactly where we would be at the end of the season if RGIII had not turned out to be our saviour.

CAN ANYBODY EVEN IMAGINE HOW MANY WINS HAD WE HAD WITH sexy Rex this season?

Probably: NONE, ZERO, SILCH, NOTHING, NADA, CRAP.

I am so ANGRY and FRUSTRATED that I did not want to post before today. At this point, We would have been much better off with that antiquated 4-3 defense when we had one. This is a RIDICULOUS secondary. And those butter fingers among our "receivers". Well, what else can we ask RGIII to do? Send the pass and receive it at the other end?

NOW, I maintain someone should be held responsible for this COLLAPSE after we are on our way to have the WORST pass defense in the NFL with the prospect to become the 1st in the history of the NFL to allow +5000 yards in a season. I will post a question in a separate POLL.



Oh I totally agree about the switch to 34 vs 43 shenanigans. Mike will not give up on his 34 ideals or Jim Haslett. This was his down fall in Denver.I mean the part of giving up on his defensive coach. I mentioned in old threads about NO 43 defense on their SuperBowl run being way positive in turn overs and I believe was leading the league. It doesn't have to be this way. I could revert back to Gibbs hay day with Richie Petibon's defense in 91 but then people would say that was then and in some cases was before some peoples time that post here. With what we have now we would have to add weight to Ryan Kerrigan and Rak. We would need faster LBs that can not only stop the run but cover. Then we would still have to address the whole secondary. This was where we went wrong to begin with by making major changes on defense. We are stuck now. We have to see this through. If we had stuck with the 43 we could have spent more time on fixing offense and maybe even Albert wouldn't have been a total disappointment.

On a bright note...Except for last game we have been scoring and especially in the red zone.

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Postby Red_One43 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:12 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:We are stuck now. We have to see this through.


Why are we stuck? Look at Belichick. How long did it take for him to start using a majority 4-3 scheme after so many years as a 3-4?

Kilmer72 wrote:Mike will not give up on his 34 ideals or Jim Haslett


Nevermind. You're right, we are stuck. :(

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Postby DarthMonk » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:13 pm

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Are you still pouting about getting.teased for picking the Gnats to win 60% to 40%.. then they pulled off the "w" and you were "right"?
... Only we should have won had it.not been for terrible calls, so you were actually wrong? Lol
Get over it doode! :twisted:


No. Just having fun. :moon:

Are you still SYH? [-X

If it makes you feel any better I think we'll beat Carolina - mainly because we are at home and Griff will show the world he's way better than Cam Newton. Hope I'm right. Might have to go to this one.

Peace. :whistle:

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Postby Red_One43 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:23 pm

DarthMonk wrote:
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Are you still pouting about getting.teased for picking the Gnats to win 60% to 40%.. then they pulled off the "w" and you were "right"?
... Only we should have won had it.not been for terrible calls, so you were actually wrong? Lol
Get over it doode! :twisted:


No. Just having fun. :moon:

Are you still SYH? [-X

If it makes you feel any better I think we'll beat Carolina - mainly because we are at home and Griff will show the world he's way better than Cam Newton. Hope I'm right. Might have to go to this one.

Peace. :whistle:

DarthMonk


Hey Darth, Did you take into account that Shanny is 5 and 14 at home? :lol:

Seriously, I am with you. Last time Cam beat us with that read option. We should be ready for it this time. They have no D, so we should have no problem scoring.

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Postby DarthMonk » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:43 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
DarthMonk wrote:
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Are you still pouting about getting.teased for picking the Gnats to win 60% to 40%.. then they pulled off the "w" and you were "right"?
... Only we should have won had it.not been for terrible calls, so you were actually wrong? Lol
Get over it doode! :twisted:


No. Just having fun. :moon:

Are you still SYH? [-X

If it makes you feel any better I think we'll beat Carolina - mainly because we are at home and Griff will show the world he's way better than Cam Newton. Hope I'm right. Might have to go to this one.

Peace. :whistle:

DarthMonk


Hey Darth, Did you take into account that Shanny is 5 and 14 at home? :lol:

Seriously, I am with you. Last time Cam beat us with that read option. We should be ready for it this time. They have no D, so we should have no problem scoring.


Yes, Red. I see that as a small-sample-size anomaly.

I'm thinking easy ticket as well.

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Postby oneman56 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:54 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:We are stuck now. We have to see this through.


Why are we stuck? Look at Belichick. How long did it take for him to start using a majority 4-3 scheme after so many years as a 3-4?

Kilmer72 wrote:Mike will not give up on his 34 ideals or Jim Haslett


Nevermind. You're right, we are stuck. :(




Why does everyone keep saying look at Belichick? What am i looking at? His defense has fallen off so much in recent years and this year they aren't statistically that much better than we are. Just because he's running a 4/3 sometimes cause it fits his personnel better (his opinion), the stats don't show much to support that.

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Postby Kilmer72 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:03 pm

I believe his point was weaning us off the 34 to a 43. Not that his defense it rated number 1.

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Postby oneman56 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:15 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:I believe his point was weaning us off the 34 to a 43. Not that his defense it rated number 1.



I guess i'm just failing to understand, if the Patriots were successful with that transition then the point would make more sense to me. I guess they are a better defense than we are so point taken on that account but it's mostly been their defense in recent years that has failed them.

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Postby Kilmer72 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:28 pm

oneman56 wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:I believe his point was weaning us off the 34 to a 43. Not that his defense it rated number 1.



I guess i'm just failing to understand, if the Patriots were successful with that transition then the point would make more sense to me. I guess they are a better defense than we are so point taken on that account but it's mostly been their defense in recent years that has failed them.


They aren't so successful. Here is an example when they are http://www.boston.com/sports/football/p ... story.html


I think what Red was saying was we can be both until we get the players to be a successful 43. Another words look at them as a team to convert soon.

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Postby cvillehog » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:29 pm

I think mark's picture summed up the game as well as humanly possible!

Image

http://www.thehogs.net/blogs/wp-content ... eelers.jpg

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Postby oneman56 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:33 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:
oneman56 wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:I believe his point was weaning us off the 34 to a 43. Not that his defense it rated number 1.



I guess i'm just failing to understand, if the Patriots were successful with that transition then the point would make more sense to me. I guess they are a better defense than we are so point taken on that account but it's mostly been their defense in recent years that has failed them.


They aren't so successful. Here is an example when they are http://www.boston.com/sports/football/p ... story.html


I think what Red was saying was we can be both until we get the players to be a successful 43. Another words look at them as a team to convert soon.



Fair enough, i can live with someone saying we should maybe play both a bit. You could find articles over the past two years of our current defense "rebounding" however. Personally, I didn't mind the switch to a 3-4 because either way you have to have players and while are 3-4 did pretty good and had players suited to it they were never as good as our stats, IMO, due to our offenses incapabilities at that time and other teams not needing to do anything but burn clock. We need Rak healthy, i think his value (while some say he's overrated) has been proven for this team, and we need a slot corner and free safety to start. Our rush defense is good but 3-4 or 4-3 or whatever we need a pash rush and a few quality back end guys.

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Postby Kilmer72 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:39 pm

I agree we need RAK back. I thought we could do without him. I though Rob would get the job done. I was all in favor of trading him (Rak) because of Ryan. I now see we need them both.

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Postby Red_One43 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:57 pm

oneman56 wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:We are stuck now. We have to see this through.


Why are we stuck? Look at Belichick. How long did it take for him to start using a majority 4-3 scheme after so many years as a 3-4?

Kilmer72 wrote:Mike will not give up on his 34 ideals or Jim Haslett


Nevermind. You're right, we are stuck. :(




Why does everyone keep saying look at Belichick? What am i looking at? His defense has fallen off so much in recent years and this year they aren't statistically that much better than we are. Just because he's running a 4/3 sometimes cause it fits his personnel better (his opinion), the stats don't show much to support that.


Why should Shanny look at Belichick?

1. Belichick and Shanny are friends - He spent time with the Pats during his year away frocm coaching.
2. Belichick is doing something about it - He feels that the 4-3 fits his personnel so he is trying something.
3. Belicheck's D was, as you noted, sucking as a 3-4 lately, so he drafted Hightower and Chandler. They are doing quite well. They might get that thing turned around. Remember there is one stat that counts more than others for a D - total points allowed (They are tied for 14th for most points given up p where would we be if we were tied for 14th instead of tied for second)

Not saying do exactly as Belichick. Shanny doesn't need to make the 4-3 his primary. Try some 4-3 combinations. Afterall, Cofield is a DT and an natural NT. Kerrigan is a DE and not an natural OLB. Rak is a DE and not a natural OLB (though he is IR now).

Now, you point out that Belichick D still is not showing anything statistically - That is ammo to argue it might not be the scheme at all. Belichick claims that as well. I don't think that these guys would suddenly be a top D in the 4-3.

Maybe Shanny should stay the course as a primary 3-4, but as I have posted several times and John Keim reported the specifics (which I posted as well) - Hazlett is running a more complicated 3-4 than the Steelers are running and the Steelers are the model. Hats off to Haz for coming up with the schemes, but his players can't run his D. They aren't fast enough, so there is a needs to eliminate complication to speed up reaction times. Less thinking and more instinct.

Shanny won't change because he feels that if the players play in the system for years, the ones who are his neucleus will have down and teach the new gifted players that he adds later.

Buuuut - what happens in the meantime while Shanny and Haz tinker to get their players? What you see happening now - Lackluster play at times? Why These are high motor work ethic guys.

Setbacks? Landry, Atogwe, Jackson, Merriweather, Jenkins, Lockout, Capgate, Of course, not all their fault, but setbacks happen when you try to fit players to a scheme instead of a scheme to the players.

One thing Shanny says that is true - his way takes time and by the money of Snyder, he will have it. It is quite possible that we will see the fruits of this labor, but probably not before the 5th year (I think that he gets it). Maybe Kyle will have pulled it together by then and Haz, if he is still around, will be the Tom Coughlin of DCs.

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