What is the most important cause for the DEFENSE collapse?

Talk about the Washington Redskins here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?

What is the most important cause for the DEFENSE collapse?

Lack of Draft and Free Agency effort by the FO
1
2%
Injuries and suspensions
10
22%
Poor 3-4 implementation & game planning by J. Hasleet
18
40%
Poor execution by an inept and incompetent bunch
9
20%
Cap penalty imposed by Mara & his puppet goddahell
7
16%
 
Total votes : 45
Hog
User avatar
Posts: 5220
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2004 2:03 pm
Location: Richmond, VA

Postby cvillehog » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:29 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:
cvillehog wrote:I think the cap penalty was a big deal, as it hurt our depth. If we hadn't had the injuries and suspensions we've had though, especially losing Rak and Carriker from the front 7, I think we'd have been OK (that is, just barely competent).


I don't think those two would make much difference. Our D is too poor to improve much even with the addition of two good players in the front seven.
Two good players in the secondary might help.


A strong front seven can make up for a lot of secondary sins!

JSPB22
User avatar
Posts: 16260
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:03 am
Location: Location, LOCATION!

Postby Deadskins » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:27 am

CanesSkins26 wrote:It falls on Shanahan and Haslett. Shanahan decided to hire Haslett, switch to the 3-4, and he's in charge of personnel moves. It's basically becoming a repeat of what got him fired in Denver, an unbalanced team with a good offense and a terrible defense. Haslett's in charge of the game plan and getting these guys to understand/execute the defense. Obviously we have some issues with depth and talent, but we should not be this bad.

Mike Lombardi said on one of the NFL Network shows Sunday, that Shanny is really a defense-minded coach, and likes to hand off the offense to his OC and focuses himself on the D. He also pointed out Shanny's horrible D in Denver is what got him fired, and that he's as responsible as Haslett is for this year's performance.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.


Hog Bowl IV Champion (2012)

Hail to the Redskins!

08 Champ
Posts: 13747
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: in RG3's corner

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:14 am

Deadskins wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:It falls on Shanahan and Haslett. Shanahan decided to hire Haslett, switch to the 3-4, and he's in charge of personnel moves. It's basically becoming a repeat of what got him fired in Denver, an unbalanced team with a good offense and a terrible defense. Haslett's in charge of the game plan and getting these guys to understand/execute the defense. Obviously we have some issues with depth and talent, but we should not be this bad.

Mike Lombardi said on one of the NFL Network shows Sunday, that Shanny is really a defense-minded coach, and likes to hand off the offense to his OC and focuses himself on the D. He also pointed out Shanny's horrible D in Denver is what got him fired, and that he's as responsible as Haslett is for this year's performance.


that's JUST an opinion - I don't agree that the defense would be better without Hazlett and Shanahan - Hazlett and Shanahan have to do a better job with the players they have and find ways to get some pressure

getting rid of Hazlett and Shanahan does not help this defense

I also think it's incorrect to imply that adding 2 DBs makes the defense better OR that switching to the 3-4 was the real cause

the issues with the D is caused by a number of things - sure Hazlett and Shanahan are responsible (one is the DC and the other is the HC) but the injuries, the lack of cap space and a number of other things are factors too

The 3-4 is just as good or bad as the 4-3 - no secondary can be effective when the front 7 are not applying ANY pressure at all on the QB

This season, the offense is more effective and that is making everyone a lot more frustrated that the defense is not 'keeping up'
It's taken years for the Redskins to become as bad as we are - there is no way that the team is going to be consistently competitive in the near future, the problems here are complex - unfortunately with Dan Snyder, it is what it is

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 5032
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Postby riggofan » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:26 am

PAPDOG67 wrote:You can add stupidly letting Carlos Rogers go. I know he didn't want to be here, but he was the only competent member of our secondary at that time.....and now we get to see what having ZERO competent secondary people looks like.


We "let" Carlos Rogers go like Tom Cruise "let" Katie Holmes go. He WASN'T STAYING HERE.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 5032
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Postby riggofan » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:27 am

Now that I think about it though, if we ONLY had Carlos Rogers back I'm sure we would be a top ten defense. LMFAO.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"That's all you want? Three ones and a two?.... I said, 'Dan, game on.'" - Vinny
"You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 5032
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Postby riggofan » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:31 am

I had to say injuries were the most IMPORTANT reason for the D being so bad this year. Orakpo and Carriker in particular, but we really needed to see Merriweather contribute something to have a snowball's chance in the secondary this season.

It seems like the reason our D is SO bad though is because we're getting hit with a combination of all of the things you listed. Perfect storm.

You know what is scary though is that we're not the worst defense in the league. Saints, Bills and Titans are all ranked worse than us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"That's all you want? Three ones and a two?.... I said, 'Dan, game on.'" - Vinny
"You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax

JSPB22
User avatar
Posts: 16260
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:03 am
Location: Location, LOCATION!

Postby Deadskins » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:24 am

riggofan wrote:
PAPDOG67 wrote:You can add stupidly letting Carlos Rogers go. I know he didn't want to be here, but he was the only competent member of our secondary at that time.....and now we get to see what having ZERO competent secondary people looks like.


We "let" Carlos Rogers go like Tom Cruise "let" Katie Holmes go. He WASN'T STAYING HERE.

There's always the franchise tag. Not that that would have helped his morale any.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.


Hog Bowl IV Champion (2012)

Hail to the Redskins!

**LPJ**
Posts: 6385
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:12 am
Location: Langley Park, MD *Tick Tock*

Postby langleyparkjoe » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:50 am

3rd choice...

haslett's a bum
Hog Bowl I Champion (2009)
Hog Bowl II Champion 2010- Cappster
Hog Bowl III Champion 2011- DarthMonk
Hog Bowl IV Champion 2012- Deadskins
Hog Bowl V Champion 2013- DarthMonk

DC Area, I support you.. Unconditionally
When I die, remember me as one loyal S.O.B.!

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1810
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:44 am
Location: Houston, TX

Postby markshark84 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:16 pm

If you vote for injuries and suspensions, you might as well vote for lack of draft and free agency help by the FO. It's one and the same really. A good FO would prepare for injuries since they are inevitable and work hard to create depth. Depth is extremely important in consistency and going deep in the playoffs.

If 2 major injuries are the direct reason we are now the clear-cut worst defense in the NFL --- the FO should have realized that may be an issue and prepared accordingly.

I sort of think that poor execution by an inept bunch also is directly related to the FO. Right now, we have a poor product on the field. Everyone knew that our 2ndary was weak. The FO should have worked to sign and draft players that could have helped this year. But they didn't.
RIP Sean Taylor. You will be missed.

---
User avatar
Posts: 18571
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:55 pm
Location: AJT

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:25 pm

markshark84 wrote:If 2 major injuries are the direct reason we are now the clear-cut worst defense in the NFL --- the FO should have realized that may be an issue and prepared accordingly.


What math are you using to come to a conclusion of 2 injuries?

- Carriker
- Orakpo
- Merriweather
- Tanard (brain deficiency lol)
- Goff
- Jenkins (it takes 2 years to truly bounce back from his injury)

That's 5 "real" injuries. But more importantly, that's 4 starters on defense GONE. BOTH safeties GONE. Arguably our best pass rusher, GONE. A cornerstone of our D-line GONE.

That's huge.
Fios - Arbiter of All Positive Knowledge

Kaz - "Was kinda obvious since we all know you're not a moron"

**********
User avatar
Posts: 16744
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:45 pm
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all

Postby 1niksder » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:49 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:It falls on Shanahan and Haslett. Shanahan decided to hire Haslett, switch to the 3-4, and he's in charge of personnel moves. It's basically becoming a repeat of what got him fired in Denver, an unbalanced team with a good offense and a terrible defense. Haslett's in charge of the game plan and getting these guys to understand/execute the defense. Obviously we have some issues with depth and talent, but we should not be this bad.


You just don't like either of those guys based on most of your replies to most of the questions you reply to :wink: Last year it was the defense carrying the team and you said Shanny had no offense without Elway now he has a "good" so you point out he has good offense, and you never liked the switch to the 3-4.

FTR: He decided on the 3-4 BEFORE he signed Haz...

I went with injuries and suspensions... Jackson would have been the perfect "center fielder" and Merriweather will fit in the box nicely. Jackson was suspended BEFORE the season and Merriweather has been out since the PRE-SEASON.

The replacements for the guys "slotted" to start the season aren't getting the job done, but these are the same guys that played last season when both "slotted starters missed most of the season) <--- see a pattern :?:

This points to Haslett's inability to adjust either his (Mike's) scheme or his personnel. The FO signed both Jackson and Merriweather along with other free agent DBs this off-season... so the cap really can't be the main cause, because they spent a lot of money on DBs (almost $20M in total dollars). Might have hurt when it comes to depth

Shanny and Haz aren't the biggest reasons the D sucks but they are running a very close second and at the mid-way point of the season they are still trying to deal with issues that they became aware of prior to the start of the season. The trade deadline is this week and they have a bye next week. At that point injuries and suspensions would be a excuse and no longer a cause :shock:
..__..
{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-

When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....

If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off

B-rad
User avatar
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:46 am
Location: De La War

Postby brad7686 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:10 pm

40% Haslett
30% safety injuries/suspensions
15% average/bad corners
15% Rak Injury
No Pressure, No Diamonds

**********
User avatar
Posts: 16744
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:45 pm
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all

Postby 1niksder » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:23 pm

brad7686 wrote:40% Haslett
30% safety injuries/suspensions
15% average/bad corners
15% Rak Injury


Move 5% of Rak's Injury to Haz and I can agree with this.
..__..
{o,o}
|)__)
-"-"-

When you reach the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hold on....

If the world didn't suck we'd all fall off

~~~~~~
Posts: 10208
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:59 am
Location: Canada

Postby Redskin in Canada » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:26 pm

markshark84 wrote:If you vote for injuries and suspensions, you might as well vote for lack of draft and free agency help by the FO. It's one and the same really. A good FO would prepare for injuries since they are inevitable and work hard to create depth. Depth is extremely important in consistency and going deep in the playoffs.

If 2 major injuries are the direct reason we are now the clear-cut worst defense in the NFL --- the FO should have realized that may be an issue and prepared accordingly.

I sort of think that poor execution by an inept bunch also is directly related to the FO. Right now, we have a poor product on the field. Everyone knew that our 2ndary was weak. The FO should have worked to sign and draft players that could have helped this year. But they didn't.

I was surprised to see that the FO had received a clean bill of health so far in this thread. I AGREE with you. They deserve some responsibility too. :twisted:
Daniel Snyder has defined incompetence, failure and greed to true Washington Redskins fans over the last decade. Stay away from football operations !!!

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1810
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:44 am
Location: Houston, TX

Postby markshark84 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:42 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
markshark84 wrote:If 2 major injuries are the direct reason we are now the clear-cut worst defense in the NFL --- the FO should have realized that may be an issue and prepared accordingly.


What math are you using to come to a conclusion of 2 injuries?

- Carriker
- Orakpo
- Merriweather
- Tanard (brain deficiency lol)
- Goff
- Jenkins (it takes 2 years to truly bounce back from his injury)

That's 5 "real" injuries. But more importantly, that's 4 starters on defense GONE. BOTH safeties GONE. Arguably our best pass rusher, GONE. A cornerstone of our D-line GONE.

That's huge.


It's not math more than english..... "Real" and "major" are different. "Major" injuries go to "major" players. There are only 2 "major" players on your list -- and that is giving Carriker a ton of credit. Of those 6, 2 are high level players; 1 a mediocre player; 2 are injury riddled, and one is actively playing. And I consider starters as players that have actually started a game as a skin.

I considered Carriker and Orakpo as the major injuries. The others were such that they should have been planned for by the FO.

Jenkins is playing. He got hurt last year. They should have adequately planned that this is a "recovery" year. It's no secret it takes 2 years for an ACL to fully recover.

Jackson failed his physical in TB, hasn't played a full season since 2008 and has a substance abuse issue. Would you really think we'd get a full season out of him??? I would have planned an option B. An injury or suspension should have been predictable (and really inevitable). To say that this was a surprise is just ridiculous.

Goff tore his ACL the PREVIOUS season. Besides the skins released him. As you stated, it takes 2 years to recover. He wan't a core player and shouldn't have been a starter because this is a "recovery year" and more importantly, he was a mediocre starter in NYG; which is probably why they didnt' resign him. When you have an injury prone middle LB coming off a season ending ACL tear, the FO should have had a plan B. His injury was predicatable.

An argument can be made for Merriweather, but it was early enough were the FO should have made more of an effort to pick up a DB. He was injured on Sept 3, so I can understand it --- that said, we need MULTIPLE upgrades in the 2ndary.

If I give you Merriweather, that is 3 injuries. That is not uncommon in the NFL. The FO needs to prepare for injuries. If this were 3 injuries at the same position, it is understandable -- but this is 3 injuries at very different positions. The FO should have prepared.
RIP Sean Taylor. You will be missed.

Return to Hog Wash - Washington Redskins Football