What is the most important cause for the DEFENSE collapse?

Talk about the Washington Redskins here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?

What is the most important cause for the DEFENSE collapse?

Lack of Draft and Free Agency effort by the FO
1
2%
Injuries and suspensions
10
22%
Poor 3-4 implementation & game planning by J. Hasleet
18
40%
Poor execution by an inept and incompetent bunch
9
20%
Cap penalty imposed by Mara & his puppet goddahell
7
16%
 
Total votes : 45
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Postby oneman56 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:50 pm

1niksder wrote:
brad7686 wrote:40% Haslett
30% safety injuries/suspensions
15% average/bad corners
15% Rak Injury


Move 5% of Rak's Injury to Haz and I can agree with this.



I actually think his injury is being understated and should be increased and not decreased, he is the primary reason our pass rush has faltered so much and that puts too much strain on this inept secondary IMO. As far as the FO goes, most teams losing their top pass rusher and secondary starters have trouble so I agree with the injury votes. As an example of FO's, Baltimore, who is known for having a top personnel guy and good FO are struggling w/o Suggs and now their top corner. The Giants have survived their bad secondary for a years cause of their pass rushers, they have 3 to 4 good ones, we have 1 maybe 2 and now don't have a legit rusher. I Love Kerrigan but until he proves he can be a double digit sack guy w/o Orakpo on the other side i think he's a complimentary pass rush guy. He's an oustanding LB and football player, i'm not knocking him at all but he's not proved he can terrorize QB's without Orakpo on the other side.

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Postby oneman56 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:55 pm

markshark84 wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
markshark84 wrote:If 2 major injuries are the direct reason we are now the clear-cut worst defense in the NFL --- the FO should have realized that may be an issue and prepared accordingly.


What math are you using to come to a conclusion of 2 injuries?

- Carriker
- Orakpo
- Merriweather
- Tanard (brain deficiency lol)
- Goff
- Jenkins (it takes 2 years to truly bounce back from his injury)

That's 5 "real" injuries. But more importantly, that's 4 starters on defense GONE. BOTH safeties GONE. Arguably our best pass rusher, GONE. A cornerstone of our D-line GONE.

That's huge.


It's not math more than english..... "Real" and "major" are different. "Major" injuries go to "major" players. There are only 2 "major" players on your list -- and that is giving Carriker a ton of credit. Of those 6, 2 are high level players; 1 a mediocre player; 2 are injury riddled, and one is actively playing. And I consider starters as players that have actually started a game as a skin.

I considered Carriker and Orakpo as the major injuries. The others were such that they should have been planned for by the FO.

Jenkins is playing. He got hurt last year. They should have adequately planned that this is a "recovery" year. It's no secret it takes 2 years for an ACL to fully recover.

Jackson failed his physical in TB, hasn't played a full season since 2008 and has a substance abuse issue. Would you really think we'd get a full season out of him??? I would have planned an option B. An injury or suspension should have been predictable (and really inevitable). To say that this was a surprise is just ridiculous.

Goff tore his ACL the PREVIOUS season. Besides the skins released him. As you stated, it takes 2 years to recover. He wan't a core player and shouldn't have been a starter because this is a "recovery year" and more importantly, he was a mediocre starter in NYG; which is probably why they didnt' resign him. When you have an injury prone middle LB coming off a season ending ACL tear, the FO should have had a plan B. His injury was predicatable.

An argument can be made for Merriweather, but it was early enough were the FO should have made more of an effort to pick up a DB. He was injured on Sept 3, so I can understand it --- that said, we need MULTIPLE upgrades in the 2ndary.

If I give you Merriweather, that is 3 injuries. That is not uncommon in the NFL. The FO needs to prepare for injuries. If this were 3 injuries at the same position, it is understandable -- but this is 3 injuries at very different positions. The FO should have prepared.



Show me a FO that loses it's best pass rusher, best run stuffer and most talented DB and doesn't fall off defensively? I'm not saying they couldn't have prepared better (there's always room to be better) and i'm not saying we should be last against the pass but these are significant injuries. Again, see Baltimore. See Pitt w/o Harrison, Polamalu and let's say Kiesel. These are tough injuries to overcome. Haslett has to share some blame however we were already thin defensively and couldn't afford these injuries. We focused the off-season and draft to the offensive side which was needed and need to do the same this year to the secondary and we need to find another pass rusher to compliment Rak and Kerrigan.

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Postby cvillehog » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:58 pm

brad7686 wrote:40% Haslett
30% safety injuries/suspensions
15% average/bad corners
15% Rak Injury


So... 45% suspensions and injuries?

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Postby Deadskins » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:58 pm

markshark84 wrote:It's no secret it takes 2 years for an ACL to fully recover.

Tell that to Adrian Peterson. What takes two years, for most players, is trusting your knee again. It's more of a mental thing, than a physical thing. My 2 cents
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Postby SKINS#1 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:21 pm

"Poor execution by an inept and incompetent bunch" Enough said.

Reason for ineptness/incompetence may be injury, game planning, etc. but with the DBs we have on the field, it is an embarrassing situation for the rest of the team.

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Postby Richmond Redskin » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:22 pm

Not a fan of the 3/4., too hard to get quality players.We are more than one player away The injuries have not helped, but our secondary needs a total overhaul.

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Postby Richmond Redskin » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:23 pm

Not a fan of the 3/4., too hard to get quality players.We are more than one player away The injuries have not helped, but our secondary needs a total overhaul.

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Postby Red_One43 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:12 pm

Deadskins wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:It falls on Shanahan and Haslett. Shanahan decided to hire Haslett, switch to the 3-4, and he's in charge of personnel moves. It's basically becoming a repeat of what got him fired in Denver, an unbalanced team with a good offense and a terrible defense. Haslett's in charge of the game plan and getting these guys to understand/execute the defense. Obviously we have some issues with depth and talent, but we should not be this bad.

Mike Lombardi said on one of the NFL Network shows Sunday, that Shanny is really a defense-minded coach, and likes to hand off the offense to his OC and focuses himself on the D. He also pointed out Shanny's horrible D in Denver is what got him fired, and that he's as responsible as Haslett is for this year's performance.


I can definitely buy into this. Shanny says to be an great offensive coach you have to know defenses as good or better than offenses. In Denver, he fired his DCs but always had the same results.

I agree wholeheartedly that we should not be this bad. How are the Colts in the first year of a 4-3 doing so much better (19th vs our 29th) - is their talent better than ours? Aren't they supposed to be bad the first year of a transition to the 3-4? There is more to the Skins poor defensive showing that personnel.

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Postby Red_One43 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:59 pm

Fred Smoot Rips Haz
“Jim is, I think, an average coordinator right now,” Smoot said according to D.C. Sports Bog. “He might not have the players he wants. But I also think he’s so pig-headed right now, he’s gonna continue to run his style of defense, even though it’s killing the team.


Haslett has blamed players in the past for not fitting in with Washington’s defensive scheme, but there is obviously a bigger issue this season. The Redskins are making plays on offense, but they aren’t stopping anyone. That won’t win you many games in the NFL.


I have been saying this all along. Fit the players to the scheme. Haz keeps trying different players in different positions but the scheme is the same. A little less bltizing but the scheme is the same. How about scheme to the players for a change? No, not the Shanny way except when it comes to RGIII.

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Postby aswas71788 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:11 pm

Deadskins wrote:
riggofan wrote:
PAPDOG67 wrote:You can add stupidly letting Carlos Rogers go. I know he didn't want to be here, but he was the only competent member of our secondary at that time.....and now we get to see what having ZERO competent secondary people looks like.


We "let" Carlos Rogers go like Tom Cruise "let" Katie Holmes go. He WASN'T STAYING HERE.

There's always the franchise tag. Not that that would have helped his morale any.

One tnhing that is consistant is that the player(s) that are not on the team anymore are the best ones and the back-up quarterback should be playing instead of the starter. Doesn't any one remember the problems with Rogers? First and formost, he did not want to stay. Second was his injury problem. He was always hurt and could not play. Third, he was not that good of a cover corner. I do have to admit that he was better tahn what we now have. He would not have changed the poor play we are getting from our defensive backs, particuarly Hall.

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Postby tribeofjudah » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:22 pm

RIC.... how about ALL OF THE ABOVE..???
Proverbs 27:17 As iron sharpens iron,
so one person sharpens another.

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Postby Richmond Redskin » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:29 pm

For the 3/4 to work you need to get some pressure on the QB, which we don't. When the QB has time to go through his progressions, our secondary gets picked apart. The secondary is just not good enough to have to cover that long. Hall is the best we got and he is one of the lowest rated DB in the league. Add in some key injuries and the struggles are not a surprise.

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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:44 pm

so ... let me get this straight - "for the 3-4 defense to work .... " you have to have certain things 'work' ..

can I then take it that the 4-3 defense will be successful even if the things that it needs to 'work' don't 'work'


no wonder so many of you want to go back to the 4-3 - you learn something new about this game everyday :twisted:
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Postby Bishop Hammer » Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:26 pm

Almost everything listed. It takes more than one factor to make a defense this bad. Its a multitude of things.
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Postby Deadskins » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:40 am

aswas71788 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
riggofan wrote:
PAPDOG67 wrote:You can add stupidly letting Carlos Rogers go. I know he didn't want to be here, but he was the only competent member of our secondary at that time.....and now we get to see what having ZERO competent secondary people looks like.


We "let" Carlos Rogers go like Tom Cruise "let" Katie Holmes go. He WASN'T STAYING HERE.

There's always the franchise tag. Not that that would have helped his morale any.

One tnhing that is consistant is that the player(s) that are not on the team anymore are the best ones and the back-up quarterback should be playing instead of the starter. Doesn't any one remember the problems with Rogers? First and formost, he did not want to stay. Second was his injury problem. He was always hurt and could not play. Third, he was not that good of a cover corner. I do have to admit that he was better tahn what we now have. He would not have changed the poor play we are getting from our defensive backs, particuarly Hall.

I take it that first sentence is a comment on the fans, and not what you feel is the case, but I can't be sure from the rest of your post. Injuries? Maybe you're thinking of Sean Springs, because I don't remember Carlos missing many, if any, games due to injury. And he was definitely an excellent cover corner. Fans hated him because he dropped so many easy INTs, but if he had not been good in coverage, he would have not been in position to have so many drops.
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